Junior Doctors strike — Scope | Disability forum
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Junior Doctors strike

woodbine
woodbine Community member Posts: 11,331 Disability Gamechanger
edited January 3 in Coffee lounge
As junior doctors today start a 6 day strike, the longest in NHS history have you been affected in any way by the recent disputes?, I know I'm waiting longer to see a consultant after my MRI scan.
I should add that I totally support their claims for a decent wage.
2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

Comments

  • michael57
    michael57 Community member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    i wonder if the families of the ones that have died or will die because of the strikes share your sentiments i have and i dont  
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 900 Pioneering
    edited January 3

    I think if 'junior' were removed then more people would understand why these qualified, experienced and dedicated doctors are (still) striking and feel they have no choice but to strike in order to SAVE the NHS!


  • Beaver79
    Beaver79 Community member, Community Co-Production Group, Scope Member Posts: 15,845 Disability Gamechanger
    As a patient that has had numerous cancellations of surgery due to strikes and how it affected me and how I had to have two surgeries in the end instead of one because of the delay I cannot agree with this strike. Six days at the busiest time of the year when they should be saving lives is totally unacceptable to me. The two Union leaders were still at school 15 years ago. I think 35% increase is a joke. Where is the money to come from. I would ask WHAT about the patients. If these strikes continue there will be no NHS left what then. 
  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community member Posts: 13,141 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 3
    I think there is fault on both sides e.g. from the government (for not paying enough) AND from the doctors.

    The police are given a decent pay packet and fair rises but they are prohibited from striking.

    I think the same should apply to doctors who work in crucial departments. Surely they are as much if not more crucial than the police?
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,331 Disability Gamechanger
    michael57 said:
    i wonder if the families of the ones that have died or will die because of the strikes share your sentiments i have and i don't  
    I'm not aware of any deaths directly linked to strikes as nurses and doctors have all when on strike provided cover for emergencies, therefore there is no one to share my sentiments .

    But I have to say in all honesty that talk of people dying due to strike action is scaremongering at its worst when the people really to blame are the govt who recently walked out on talks triggering the latest strikes
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,331 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 3
    Beaver79 said:
    As a patient that has had numerous cancellations of surgery due to strikes and how it affected me and how I had to have two surgeries in the end instead of one because of the delay I cannot agree with this strike. Six days at the busiest time of the year when they should be saving lives is totally unacceptable to me. The two Union leaders were still at school 15 years ago. I think 35% increase is a joke. Where is the money to come from. I would ask WHAT about the patients. If these strikes continue there will be no NHS left what then. 
    It shows us up for what we have become when some of those "forced " to strike could earn all much as they do today working for Aldi, it's a national disgrace that Junior Doctors have been pushed into a position when the only option is to strike, yes it has and will affect us as patients I have been waiting 5 months now for an appointment just to discuss the results of my MRI scan an appointment that will take all of 5 minutes when I get it, but I fully support the doctors strike action.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community member Posts: 13,141 Disability Gamechanger

    @woodbine

    I promise I am not attempting to “troll” by asking this question, am merely trying to educate myself, hope you understand.

    You have said before that you are an advocate of socialism, which I believe means you support equal wages for all - regardless of whether you are a doctor or, using your example, work at Aldi.

    But now you seem to suggest that doctors deserve more money than someone who works at Aldi (which I personally agree with)?

    Have I misunderstood?

    Again - I genuinely don’t mean any offence and am probably being ignorant myself - I am just trying to understand.

    I find it difficult to look these things up on the internet as am worried about coming across things that trigger my mental health issues, so I have to ask people on safe forums (like this one) and such.

  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,331 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 3
    Communism is the belief that all should receive equal pay, but it never works take China as an example, socialism is the belief that we all deserve the same chance in life and that everybody regardless of the job they do receives fair pay, that they deserve somewhere decent to live and their children must all be given a good education so they can make the most of themselves, that we have a decent health service and that people are protected by a decent welfare state.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community member Posts: 13,141 Disability Gamechanger
    @woodbine thanks for the explanation.

    I think I was confusing the two.
  • michael57
    michael57 Community member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    but is it the doctors or the trade unions leaders pushing for the silly rises look what happened to the coal miners greed and power seems to be the norm now one of my brothers died in a hospital corridor just before xmas because the ward was full and my sister died 2 days after at home because there was no bed for her in the hospital 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,331 Disability Gamechanger
    part of the disputes between the nurses and doctors has been not just money but the collapse of the NHS, true the junior doctors are asking for a 35% increase because that would make up for 13 years of pay freezes and 1% rises then last year we saw 13% inflation. I'm sorry for your loss but don't blame the hard working NHS staff but under investment and waiting list approaching 8 million.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • michael57
    michael57 Community member Posts: 164 Pioneering
    woodbine said:
    part of the disputes between the nurses and doctors has been not just money but the collapse of the NHS, true the junior doctors are asking for a 35% increase because that would make up for 13 years of pay freezes and 1% rises then last year we saw 13% inflation. I'm sorry for your loss but don't blame the hard working NHS staff but under investment and waiting list approaching 8 million.
    i have not blamed the nhs once the uk is lucky to have it but it will fall to greed and union power 
  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Community member, Scope Member Posts: 900 Pioneering

    You can serve less than two months as Prime Minister and receive £115,000 a year for life from UK taxpayers  :o  

    I don't believe it is greed to expect a decent return for the time and money invested in their training. Many doctors have left the NHS for better conditions ie safe working hours and paid what they're worth! 


  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,433 Disability Gamechanger
    66Mustang said:

    @woodbine

    I promise I am not attempting to “troll” by asking this question, am merely trying to educate myself, hope you understand.

    You have said before that you are an advocate of socialism, which I believe means you support equal wages for all - regardless of whether you are a doctor or, using your example, work at Aldi.

    But now you seem to suggest that doctors deserve more money than someone who works at Aldi (which I personally agree with)?

    Have I misunderstood?

    Again - I genuinely don’t mean any offence and am probably being ignorant myself - I am just trying to understand.

    I find it difficult to look these things up on the internet as am worried about coming across things that trigger my mental health issues, so I have to ask people on safe forums (like this one) and such.

    Oooh I know this wasn't aimed at me but I'd love to answer it too!!

    So I don't know if you'd call me a socialist or communist or whatever, I don't really know all of the different terms and their meanings but I do on some level believe everyone should be paid the same, regardless of their job. Because everything is essential (to a degree, I mean there are some things I'd happily do without lol). But ook at Covid and the jobs that couldn't do without. Alongside NHS, Police and Firemen, shop workers, delivery drivers, cleaners, refuse collectors (and many more most of us don't even think about) were essential to keep going. They are essential to the country and to all of our lives and if people didn't do those jobs society would very quickly collapse. 

    But I also get why some are paid more. 

    However I also do agree that Doctors deserve more money than someone who works at a supermarket - CURRENTLY. 
    In a eutopia then I think everyone would get paid the same and there would be no class divide and rich and poor, and maybe no need for money at all. But I'm also realistic and know the world isn't like that, and given the current way the world works, it's important for certain careers that require higher levels of expertise or come with more risk or pressure should come with more reward. 

    I guess I'm a bit of a fence sitter because I swing between the two ideals. But in today's society and economy and the way the world is set up, I don't think it's right that someone essential to saving lives is paid as lowly as junior doctors are. 

    I go back on that again though, because I also know the pay scale very quickly steeps up until it's huge. And if you paid junior doctors more, the next level would argue they're paid too similarly so would want more and so on. And then those at the top of the ladder, who earn substantially already would also want more and I don't think that's justified.

    SOooooooooooooooo all that to say I don't know. :D And I think it can never be as black and white as "I'm a socialist / communist and I believe everyone should be paid the same at all times"
  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 363 Pioneering
    edited January 3

    I have no opinion either way on the strikes I believe everyone has the right to withdraw their labour that is their personal choice. 

    I gathered the following figures from a government website: In the fiscal year 2022/23, the Department of Health and Social Care allocated a total of £181.7 billion in funding to the NHS. A significant portion of this expenditure, 94.6 percent or £171.8 billion, was directed towards essential needs, including staff salaries and medication costs. 

    Looking at the figures above which I feel are generous. I am keen to hear the opinions of scope members regarding how they think these salary increases should be funded.  Acknowledging that enhancing one budget typically involves reallocating funds from another department, usually the welfare budget. I sometimes wonder whether more efficient management of allocated funds they are already in receipt of would be a more cost-effective solution to the problem.

  • woodbine
    woodbine Community member Posts: 11,331 Disability Gamechanger
    michael57 said:
    woodbine said:
    part of the disputes between the nurses and doctors has been not just money but the collapse of the NHS, true the junior doctors are asking for a 35% increase because that would make up for 13 years of pay freezes and 1% rises then last year we saw 13% inflation. I'm sorry for your loss but don't blame the hard working NHS staff but under investment and waiting list approaching 8 million.
    i have not blamed the nhs once the uk is lucky to have it but it will fall to greed and union power 
    that's why I said don't blame the hard working NHS staff, there are around 110,000 vacancies in the NHS, it has been starved over the last 13 years by an incompetent govt. who have been and continue to be unfit to run a raffle let alone a country.
    2024 The year of the general election...the time for change is coming 💡

  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,433 Disability Gamechanger
    MW123 said:

    Looking at the figures above which I feel are generous. I am keen to hear the opinions of scope members regarding how they think these salary increases should be funded.  

    Easy peasy.
    To give them the 35% pay increase they're demaning it's said to cost between 1 and 2 billion a year (depending on the source you read).

    I'd fund it from all the billions the government waste, or government fraud. In the 2 years before Boris became primeminister there was about 5.5 billion pounds of government fraud and waste. In the following 2 years, when Rishi was chancellor and Boris primeminister, that quadrupled to 21 BILLION in fraud and waste from government departments. In just two years. That 21 billion would fund the increase for quite some time ;) 

    Or tax the super rich properly or the many tax loopholes used by the elite :wink:

    MW123 said:

    I sometimes wonder whether more efficient management of allocated funds they are already in receipt of would be a more cost-effective solution to the problem.

    I agree with this too!!! 

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