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Support needed - PIP form questions about getting out and about

SystemSystem Posts: 489 Scope community team
This discussion was created from comments split from: New category - disability news.

Replies

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    Hi @Sam_Scope Not really. I am trying to get the DM to look for a 3rd time at 1d) which isn't on there and CAB are not going into detail about what exactly the "overwhelming psychological  distress" means. I read somewhere that you have to have a long standing mental health condition but is that an actual illness or just long term engagement with mental health services for phobias and PTSD, health anxiety things like that? I also suffer from Opthalmic migraines and if one started when on a journey I would not be able to see or cross roads. I would be suddenly virtually blind. It would take a few hours before my vision returned to normal. But they won't accept that but are still looking at my claim (3rd time).
    Also I can't risk showering on my own as it's over the bath and I fell 4 times last year and if I fell in the bath can't bear to think what would happen. I have neuropathy in both legs so very wobbly and can't feel my feet especially with my eyes closed for hair washing. I have described why I need help but they still say I only need aids. (one rail held with both hands so how do I wash?) Gov.are  looking at the rules now about risk and reliability but I don't even know the old rules either. That is what my question was.      
  • Sam_ScopeSam_Scope Member Posts: 7,732 Disability Gamechanger
    @wildlife I saw this post by @denisedeedee and thought it may help you?
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi wildlife,

    I'm not absolutely sure what the original question was but looking at your post above, 1d. in the mobility component is a tricky one. I'm assuming you made your claim before 16th March, so the old rules would apply (before the recent PIP amendments). However, the DWP are also appealing against the decision which said you could get those 10 points where you couldn't follow an unfamiliar journey without help due to psychological distress. So a decision maker could decide not to make a decision whilst they are waiting for that appeal decision (under what are called anti-test case rules).

    What I would say is that the general principles of PIP, that you can't do an activity unless it is safe, still applies - so arguably, it isn't safe for you to undertake unfamiliar journeys without help, because of the risks of your vision going. You do not need to have a particular diagnosis by the way - but the problems you have do need to stem from your physical or mental condition. Evidence is really useful as I'm sure you know, which can be medical, or examples of when this particular risk (the vision going) occurred.

    As for washing and bathing, you mention that it isn't safe to shower on your own. I'm not sure what you mean by the old rules, but a recent case has clarified what the DWP should be applying when they look at risk (which is part of the general principle that you should not be considered to do something if you can't do it reliably - that includes safely, to an acceptable standard, within a reasonable time period and repeatedly). 

    The case ([2017] UKUT 105 (AAC)) said that the risk only has to be something which could happen. There's a risk if taking steps to prevent the risk (such as having someone with you) is reasonable. The risk of an event doesn't have to be more likely than not. So going back to your question, you should mention that you are wobbly and can't feel your feet, that even with the aid you have you fell 4 times last year - that the aid is useless because you feel you have to hold on with both hands to be safe and therefore you can't wash yourself.

    I'd point out though that it's the same number of points (2) for needing supervision as it is for needing an aid or appliance, and it's also only 2 points for needing assistance to wash below the waist. You can get 3 points if you need help getting in or out of the shower, and 4 if you need help to wash between shoulders and waist. If more than one descriptor applies for the same amount of time, the highest should be selected. However, if you need someone to be there for supervision, but not to actually help you wash, I'm afraid it is the same number of points (2) as you get for needing an aid.

    Hope this clarifies.

    Will


    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    Hi @will, thanks that's very helpful. My claim was made last Dec. so it should be the old rules but the new rules were used for my MR for journeys. I heard DWP were appealing against the new rules but were unlikely to win because of the authority of who made them (not sure who it was). I sent them a 999 call out report after losing my vision 5 times last Feb. 2017. They are stress related and I was in an awful state after seeing my assessor's report full of lies which arrived a week earlier. I still don't know how they interpret overwealming psychological distress as opposed to a long standing mental health condition. My assessor wrote and kept repeating that I wasn't on medication for depression and didn't have any specialist input. Both of these are wrong and they have evidence to prove it. 
                      For showering I am a lot clearer about the criteria and I meet the need for  help to wash all over. I need to hold on with both hands as one hand does not support me enough when I can't feel my feet. Especially with my eyes closed I feel as if I'm floating and moving about when I'm not. It's really scary. I fell in the garden last year when hubby was out and couldn't move. I did manage to get up with a struggle but was very shaken.
    I'm just waiting for my 3rd decision and trying to tell the others on here that the MR can be repeated if you complain about the assessment and send in more evidence and another letter. I don't even have to appeal as I'll have another month from the 3rd "brown envelope if needs be.    
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello wildlife

    I am just posting in regard to your comment that you had heard that the 'DWP were appealing against the new rules but were unlikely to win because of the authority of who made them'.
     
    The original cases around PIP mobility were made by an Upper Tribunal. Unfortunately, the DWP are able to challenge these decisions to a higher court and as such there is no guarantee that they are unlikely to win, it will e up to this higher authority. 

    Good luck with your MR.

    Regards

    Maria
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    Thanks Maria, I rang PIP today and was told I should hear any day now and because my claim was last Dec. it should be the ruling before 16th march that is used. I also have the problem with my vision but getting through to Decision Makers is easier said than done. I didn't start this discussion so don't know what happened. I thought I'd posted in a news discussion that Alex started.       
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