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ATOS Complaint

wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
Please can you advise me how long you think is a reasonable length of time to wait for a reply from a 2nd stage complaint being investigated by ATOS. I am now wanting to move the complaint to independent investigators, would this be ICE and can I contact them while ATOS are still investigating it, if they are. If I ring them to find out what's happening what do I say? Can I give them an ultimatum? I don't want to wait any longer or be fobbed of with an indefinite timescale.  

Replies

  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    edited May 2017
    Hi @wildlife,

    It does depend on the complexity of the complaint but I'd suggest a month. And yes, you can give them an ultimatum. In fact, that is good practice as it then allows you to show ICE that you contacted ATOS and said, for example, 'if you don't respond within 2 weeks I am going to ICE' (I'm assuming here you have already waited at least 2 weeks), so that you have evidence that the initial agency was given a reasonable time to respond.

    The other thing you can do is to ask ICE the very same question. Remember ICE say that you can only bring your complaint to them if the initial agency has said that you can.

    'We will only consider your complaint if the agency or business has told you, in writing or by phone, that you can bring your complaint to us.' (ICE guidance to complainants)



    But there must surely be situations where this isn't possible because that final response never arrives. I'd give ICE a ring or email to discuss:

    0345 606 0777 
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    Thanks Will This is extremely helpful. MOH first wrote to ATOS on my behalf to make an official complaint early in February, so 3 months ago. We got a quick reply refusing to investigate on the grounds that what happens in the assessment room cannot be proven. I wrote again on 8 March making the letter more about the assessment report which is in writing for all to see. I got a reply on 13th March accepting the complaint and saying it was at the 2nd tier stage. I've had no reply since then but I did send an update to the person named on the letter after my PIP was increased to tell them it was a lot of evidence that the assessor should have used and which she blatantly ignored that finally got my mobility changed. However there is still a problem with evidence being ignored for Daily Living still at standard rate. So it is over a month since ATOS have written to me. I will carry out your advice and let you know what happens. As I keep in mind that whatever I'm doing may help others as well.. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    Update: Have just rung ATOS and been told they are going to hurry along the complaint and get back to me soon. I gave them 2 weeks before I go to ICE. Has anyone else been through ATOS complaints and what was the the outcome? 
  • ariesaries Member Posts: 44 Connected
    Hi there, so pleased you have put this up. I've received a letter today from CAPITA acknowledging my complaint of the conduct of the assessor and the content of the assessment report. She ignored information given to her at the assessment. She threatened me with a physical examination ( not explaining what she meant by this) she threatened that I would have to go back for another assessment if I did not answer all her questions. She was aggressive throughout. She ignored the fact that I had been abused. But still threatened me with a physical examination!  
    My first question is what is ICE? 
    They have said they will investigate and contact me in 20 days? 
    Any advice please
    Aries 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    Hi @aries It sounds like you're doing OK just make sure you get a reply but remember they probably mean 20 working days which is a lot longer than 20 days. ICE stands for "Independent Complaints Examiner" and they are the next stage to go to if CAPITA don't investigate your complaint properly or give you a satisfactory outcome. Hope that helps..x
  • ariesaries Member Posts: 44 Connected
    Hey thank you and yes it does help. Thank you for replying. Your situation sounds very much like mine and your posts and advice has been very useful. Please keep us up dated on your progress as this helps to know that you are standing up to these agencies. 
    They are now stopping my carers income support so he will have to claim JSA but how can he say he's available to work when he cares for me. They are making this as difficult as they can!! 
    X
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @aries Sorry to hear that, I don't know a lot about working age benefits as I'm retired except I have a disabled son on ESA and PIP. Hope you can sort it all out. I will stand up to these people, I've said all along my assessor chose the wrong person to do what she did to. It's just taking so long to get answers from everyone but I'm getting there slowly. Will keep everyone updated as I'm hoping what I learn from this can be passed on to others to help them...X
     
  • SeanRyanSeanRyan Member Posts: 66 Connected
    What are your thoughts about this. Any ideas or suggestions ? 
    You can request to audio record your consultation by calling our Customer Service Centre, but you will need to provide your own equipment.
    Inform us beforehand that you wish to record your consultation, which can be done by calling our Customer Service Centre. Please let us know as soon as possible, as we may not be able to accept requests made on the day of your consultation.
    Your recording equipment must be able to produce two identical copies of the recording at the end of the consultation, either in audio cassette or CD format. You will need to give one copy of the recording to the Health Professional undertaking your consultation, at the end of the consultation. Devices like PCs, laptops, tablets, smartphones or MP3 players are not acceptable recording devices.
    You will need to sign an agreement that sets out what you are and are not allowed to do with the recording.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited May 2017
    @SeanRyan This reminds me of a phone call I had from my GP one evening around 8pm. I was surprised she was still working. After discussing an X ray result  showing a possible stress fracture in one of my toes, PIP was mentioned. She immediately launched into telling me how the Government had told DWP they had to believe what disabled people were telling them to cut down on the amount of letters GP's have to write taking up time they need to treat people. It would make far more sense for all medical conditions with supporting medical evidence to be believed along with the effects on that person's life then there'd be no need to record assessments. I'm still fighting for justice after my assessor lied about something I did to try and show I could use both hands with no problem. Recording the assessment would not have stopped this as no words were spoken... 
  • SeanRyanSeanRyan Member Posts: 66 Connected
    Hi There @wildlife I am just about to go for my third assessment. My PIP has been stopped and I now have to live after bills on £50 a week. The healthy diet I was eating is gone. The pain and medication get even greater and they still dont get it. MS they think is a shop where you buy underwear and posh food. Stay strong dont let them grind you down. With you all the way
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited May 2017
    @SeanRyan I feel for you, don't forget how you travel there will affect the mobility score and that you are watched even before you get into the assessment room. Also you should be sat so that you can see the computer screen and can correct anything falsely written (sample video on ATOS website). I have strong suspicions and info. that my assessor wasn't even qualified so if you want to be sure who you're dealing with they should introduce themselves and tell you their professional medical qualification. You can even ask for their registration number as all assessors have to be registered with their appropriate professional body.  Someone else did this and shocked the assessor into going off to find it. Anything that will give them the message that you're not going to tolerate lies written about you. If someone is going with you they can take notes. All my MSE results were either changed or made up. I'm expecting to hear about the final outcome of my ATOS complaint anytime now. I've accepted what PIP I've got as far as DWP is concerned but will keep fighting to get my assessor dealt with properly. I've got a review in only 2/3 years so have to make sure they don't use the same lies for that. That's what's keeping me going..  
  • SeanRyanSeanRyan Member Posts: 66 Connected
    edited May 2017
    Thanks for the advice @wildlife This will be my third one, I know how it works quite well now Your right they have made their decision before you even get through the door. I was talking to a barrister about this very thing yesterday and He was quite shocked. I have written a blog about my experiences as a way of keeping me alive. I am staggered that as a nation we still to this day look away in shame at the disabled. like we dont mater anymore. Mates you thought you had dont want to talk anymore. Friends on face book ignore you and dont read what you write. This is by far the hardest part of being disabled having to deal with all the crap dished out by people who think your just a work shy burden to state. I would like to see anyone of them try and survive
     .
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @Aries, @seanRyan, and @Wildlife. Hello to those of you I have not replied to before. wildlife I see you are still plugging away. It is disgusting that you have to go through all this, on and on, but you WILL get there in the end. I know it, please hurry up because my fingers have been crossed for you for so long they are beginning to hurt :-). 
    I have not posted for a while, things been not too good here, then I wasn't too well myself. All better now , and pleased to be back.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited May 2017
    @Justice, Welcome back on here. Yes I am still plugging away but it's difficult to maintain the same determination I had at the start. I am still on here as if I can prevent one person going through what I did it'll be worth while. I also only have PIP for 3 years so need to keep up to date with what's happening. Sorry to hear you haven't been well but glad you're feeling better. I rang ATOS a few days ago and they said they're pushing on with the complaint so it will be interesting to see what they come up with. I have a letter ready with attached info. about my assessor's past job history to send to DWP when I've heard from ATOS. I may also go to ICE if necessary. Talking of hurting fingers. I went to the Dr's last week as my left hand keeps curling up overnight and I can't open it out for a while in the morning. She just said something about the tendons in my arm and it wasn't serious, no treatment, tests or follow up. Once you get to 60 if it's not life threatening they don't want to know. That doesn't help with PIP as having  access to my records online I checked later and all she'd put on there was the lowest of 3 BP readings I took as I have to do it at home to stay calm. Nothing about why I'd gone to see her. Oh well the battle must go on. How are you getting on with your husband's ESA? X 
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    @wildlife

    Thanks for the reply, strange that your GP has only put that, but I guess that's another story! We have sorted the E S A . The MP's office were very good all the way through it, they must have called DWP at least ten times to try to chivvy them up. I think I told you that I had written to CHDA to complain about the way the assessment was carried out. I also followed up the letter with a call a few days later. I must say after some initial " Snootyness" from their end they were very good. Kept us informed by letter, and within about three weeks they called me, very contrite, very pleasant. They upheld the complaint, took on board all that we had said, told me that the assessor was now to have a disciplinary meeting with his manager, and would have a record against his name which would stay there. They had another " Health Care professional" go through it all, and they sent a copy of her report to us, and to the DWP. 

    The annoying thing was though is that the DWP still wanted yet another Decision maker to look at things. Our MP said it was an injustice, and ridiculous, but on it went. My whole point to them by now was " How can you make any decision based on an assessment which has to all intents and purposes been declared as not fit for purpose.

    To cut a long story short they invoked article whatever( Can't recall which one without digging out the file) which meant that Hubby would be a danger to himself and others both in any workplace, and travelling to and fro.
    So he is back in the support group where he belongs!, and they have paid the money back which they had stopped. I was concerned that they said they agree that he does not meet any of the descriptors regarding care, or mobility. To us it looks like a decision has been made in a " How do we get out of this **** up without losing face" kind of way. Anyway we have the end result that we hoped for.
    I have however sent an official complaint to D W P about the way this was handled from start to finish. The lack of communication, the lack of respect, lack of attention to detail. I could go on and on. They broke just about every rule they have in their own Customer Charter. We have had a curt letter back to say they have received the complaint, and that they will try to deal with it in the next fifteen days. Will keep you posted.

    Book coming along nicely by the way, loads to out in it thanks to so many of you willing to let me use your stories.
  • ariesaries Member Posts: 44 Connected
    Hi there justice, so good to hear more people are putting pen to paper an standing up to these so called health professionals. Your writing a book that sounds so inspiring good luck. 
    I'm just about to post another letter to CAPITA adding to my complaint and going into more detail about the ignorance, aggressiveness and hostility of the so called health professional who didn't know about or what trigger finger is? She said my hand was shaking. Trigger fingers do not make your hands shake. They lock into a claw like position and are very painful. Very common in diabetics and come under the umbrella of diabetic neuropathy. 
    Yet another false statement of many she made....
    good luck all I'll keep you posted 
    Aries x
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Justice, Maybe I'd be better going to CHDA rather than ICE? I need someone who will investigate my assessor's qualifications as well as the lies she told. I'm still trying to get HCPC to take on the fact she may not be qualified. The latest is on a different discussion "Assessor's Qualifications". However their Fitness to Practice dept. have said they might investigate her if I provide them with evidence of her malpractice. I have asked if this applies if they're not working in the profession they're registered in otherwise it won't be worth going the trouble of going through her report. At least it's not taking up my whole life as there's no timescale involved. Will keep you posted. @aries I wondered if my finger problem was trigger finger but it only happens at night and there's no clicking as it opens out. But it does seize up and my middle finger is so painful. I've had a bad car crash and another one with whiplash so X twice and have upper body nerve damage. Things just fly out of my hands so could be anything. DWP won't accept any of this as the assessor said my upper body strength was normal Urg!!
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @ Wildlife. it may be a good idea to go to CHDA first. I think ICE are for when all else has failed as they are an  Independent examiners as I understand it. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Justice, Thank-you for that. But it makes me wonder if CHDA are connected to DWP or are they independent as well? Anyhow I'll try them first. Do I have to finish with ATOS first or can I complain to them anytime?  
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    @wildlife wildlife The CHDA which I complained to were based at the place we had to send the original form into, the one you fill in before your appointment. They seem to run that side of things. They are not, I think like ICE who look at the whole thing independently, but rather the ones in charge of the assessments, so part of the contracted out companies I suppose. I thought Atos were out of it now? If I were you I would check the address where you sent your original form, and maybe give them a ring. They should have a complaints procedure, and can hardly refuse to tell you.

    have you had your MP on board? Mind you we don't have any MPs at the moment lol.
    Good luck I hope that helps.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @Justice I'll ring the PIP helpline number and find out who to complain to after ATOS or along side ATOS. They had their contract renewed by the government but only in certain areas. Will gave me a link to a contracts website but I couldn't find the contract between DWP and ATOS which should have the criteria for assessor's qualifications. My MP only replied once when I emailed about my assessor's lies, since then he's not replied, but the signs are going up for him on the road sides so he'll be busy campaigning. Will let you know how I get on..
  • SeanRyanSeanRyan Member Posts: 66 Connected
    @Justice @wildlife Hi guys do you know how many people use this forum. a rough guess ?
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    @SeanRyan No idea. Why are you asking? @Sam_Scope
     can you answer this please..
  • SeanRyanSeanRyan Member Posts: 66 Connected
    Just doing research for my blog it would be great to find out how many people use the site.
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    @SeanRyan
     Please can you do a link to your blog. Thanks
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    [email protected] but I rang CHDA yesterday and they only deal with ESA assessments not PIP. So it will be ICE I contact next. No news yet from ATOS. This forum is still full of people with genuine disabilities having problems with their assessor lying, which is the only way DWP can keep the numbers on the higher rate or any at all down to meet their targets. I've asked the solicitors on here Maria and Mary what law they're breaking and whether legal action is possible without it costing a lot of money.  
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    @wildlife
     Oh sorry about that, I didn't realise it was only for ESA. The same thing seems to happen again and again though regarding them lying on the forms, be it ESA or PIPS. It seems they get away with it. You know the definition of Fraud is falsifying information in order to cause another person financial loss, even if that loss does not occur if the intent is there it is still Fraud. How do they get away with it? Probably because they know damn well that very few, if any of us can afford to persue it. Makes me so angry.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @Justice, That's why I've asked the question on here as to what we can do about it. You can't get legal aid for benefit problems but maybe a sympathetic law person would be prepared to help. Still waiting for ATOS to get back to me then if they're not prepared to deal with my assessor it'll be over to DWP, ICE and HCPC fitness to practice. Still plenty that can be done, just need to keep going and not let time soften the strong feelings of injustice. Have you read the "Reconstruction" post, a young woman is now in intensive care because of PIP. So leaving family struggling to help. The advisors aren't around at weekends and can only do so much. So someone needs to sit up and take notice and the sooner the better..x
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @wildlife, no I have not seen the reconstruction post. Will try and find it. All we can do, as you say is keep plugging away. I know that ( For the moment) My Husband's case is sorted, and we have the outcome we wanted. No way has that softened my feelings of injustice. I am as mad at the system now as ever I was, that is why I want to do the book. 

    It makes me livid to think that there are so many people out there who are unable to fight as we are doing, the reasons are many, too sick, too scared of
    so called authority, frightened of filling in forms, unable to use a computer, so many people falling through the net.

    we are lucky, we have been able to come to places like this forum, we have in some cases support from Family, so I will keep fighting because of all those who cannot. we need to worry at the system like a dog with a bone until it is changed!!

    I am so glad I found this forum, it isn't only the help, but have a few nice people sending me e mails now just for a chat which is lovely as I do get rather isolated at times.





  • johnny100johnny100 Member Posts: 125 Pioneering
    i cannot understand how you fill in a PIP form for some person to type it on a screem and ask question about your health etc whem most of it is in front of them.It then goes to DWP for them to decipher and pull it apart.How do either of these agencies now about complex health issues which they do not know anything about,then they write an MR which does not explain the finding in your submissions,they make it up as they go a;ong.They are being payed high salaries  at these departments which prob equates to over £50k,disgraeful

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @johnny100 hello, nice to hear from you. Simple answer is: they don't!! I am a very good example of this. Most of my disabilities have been caused by life events, traumas that have affected me in a unique and personal way. They don't have a name like MS or CP. As there was nowhere else on the claim form to describe the cause of my disabilities I used Q15 to describe these in detail along with the four falls I had last year. In the faint hope that whoever read it would appreciate that no-one could go through this and not have after effects. But it was all ignored. I told how in 2003 I hit a car full on at 6O mph, was catapulted onto the grass verge, shaken like a rag doll. The car hit a drainage ditch and rolled over onto it's roof. I was trapped inside upside down and as the car came to a stop I felt a tremendous bang on the head which knocked me out. That's a bad whiplash followed by my head being squashed into my neck. Now 14 years later I have nerve damage, arthritis and muscular weakness throughout my body. That's just one example of many life events that all took their toll but according to my assessor my upper body strength is normal and I only have slight weakness in both legs. What am I? A bionic woman made of strong man made components that don't deteriorate. No I'm human with a body and mind that were affected and I would have to die and be born again to improve. According to my Physio. a senior Osteopath with a long list of qualifications who provided evidence of the present state of my body, "our bodies weren't made to be flung through the air." Her evidence which I showed to my GP should have been accepted but to date has been ignored. @Justice, you're right we have to fight this gross injustice. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
     Just popping in with an update on this discussion. The last letter I got from ATOS was dated 13th March which was to accept my complaint and that it was at the 2nd stage when a senior case worker would be taking it on. Apart from 2 calls I've made to ask what is happening the last call being on 15th May when they promised a speedy conclusion I've heard nothing since. I gave them an ultimatum of 2 weeks as you suggested. I'm now losing patience so what do you suggest I do next? I've also had a Social Services Adult Care assessment at home this morning which will provide me with a report will 6 new aids to help me at home, but it also will fully acknowledge from an OT/social worker that I do need help to shower and to prepare food, both of which I only scored 2 points for needing aids only. How can I best incorporate this new assessment into my ATOS complaint? 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Hi @wildlife,

    Will is not on the rota today, if you particularly want to catch him then let us know and we will draw his attention to this next time he's on! But in the meantime what I would recommend is, as per your initial suggestion, contact ICE and ask that they investigate the complaint. As Will stated, you really should have been given permission from ATOS to do this, but I would say try contacting them, explain the situation, and state that you feel that ATOS are trying to frustrate the process and your access to an independent body by simply failing to respond - suggest that perhaps they could contact ATOS and make them aware of your concerns even if they cannot take the case on themselves at this point - worth a try.

    Another thing that has been suggested further up this feed, is to go to your MP and ask them to intervene. MPs have access to Managers that the rest of us can only dream of getting through to, so if you can get them to make some waves that really can help.

    Hope this helps! and do let us know if you would like Will to have a look as well.

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    Mary, No that's fine about Will. I just needed advice about what to do as I'm fed up of waiting. I will ring ICE and see what thy say or are prepared to do. I don't think it's worth contacting my MP as I've kept him up to date all along and had no response so no chance of help especially this near an election. Will let you know how I get on...
      
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    I have rung ATOS this morning. A customer services advisor whose name I was willingly given tried to put me through to complaints. She tried several different numbers and no-one answered. She promised to email them to request I get a call back in the next 48 hours. I told her I wanted to take the complaint to ICE if I don't get a satisfactory outcome. Next I rang ICE and spoke to a guy who sounded thoroughly fed up. He said I needed a final letter from ATOS rejecting the complaint and giving permission for me to go to ICE. Why on earth do we need permission from ATOS to go to an independent complaints examiner when a letter from ATOS finishing with the complaint should suffice? Will keep you posted..    
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    @wildlife, sorry you are still having all these frustrations. I know you are dealing with PIP, and us with ESA, but we sent a letter of complaint to DWP about the way they had dealt with the MR, and my Husband's case in general. We had a reply yesterday, to be honest it was ( probably can't say it on here ) but that brown stuff that comes out of Bull's bottoms :-). They didn't address one issue we had raised. I too called ICE, and spoke to a girl who also sounded really fed up. She said similar about them needed to say we could contact ICE, BUT
    she said we should send a letter back to DWP, tell them we are not satisfied with their response, and that we want the complaint to GO TO THE SECOND STAGE
    she felt that this should get them to point us in the direction of ICE. It is in the post. I will keep you informed !
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @justice I have a letter ready and waiting to send to DWP complaints just waiting to hear from HCPC as to whether they will investigate my assessor's employment history. The case worker has been on holiday but is back now. And, as you see above, am also waiting for a call back from ATOS complaints with the outcome of a 2nd stage investigation. I'm trying to get my head round an assessment I had yesterday for aids and adaptations at home. I'm getting 6 new pieces of equipment but for showering and preparing food the help I need from MOH was fully accepted by a lady from Adult Care social services. This still isn't accepted by ATOS or DWP. I will get a copy of her report which DWP already said they would look at for Daily Living. But it's too late to open up my claim again unless I ask for Supersession or the ATOS complaint bears fruit and then I might have to have another f2f but couldn't go through that again. I'm glad we're all slowly getting our own claims sorted and as new people are joining Scope with the same problems we had I too will stick around and help where I can. I will be reassessed in only 2 years time but will have more evidence by then so not too concerned...
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @ Wildlife. I am sitting here writing up the stories for the Book, dipping in and out of this forum to see who is on, and what's happening. I am shaking my head, you couldn't make it up, could you? All the red tape, all the buck passing, and all the lack of communication. 
    You know I keep coming back to one thought, maybe this is just me, but as far as I am concerned these people at the DWP,  ATOS, and all the rest of them are
    merely doing a job. They are nobody special( But I grant they hold the whip hand), however they need to do their job properly, and in the majority of cases they do not do this.
    This is why it is no bad thing to always complain about poor service. In any other instance, dealing with any other company with the poor customer service provided then half of them would be dismissed. 

    I think they rely a lot on the fact that many of the people dealing with them are at such a low ebb that they have the inclination or the stamina to keep on with the complaints, and the hassle. This is why those of us who can do that MUST do that.

    I know you are a fighter, wildlife, and no pushover. I am so pleased you are staying on Scope too. I will be here for the duration :-). It is a great forum, with some great people. Once again, Good Luck wildlife I KNOW you will win in the end.


  • SeanRyanSeanRyan Member Posts: 66 Connected
    @Justice is spot on @wildlife Never give up. I know its hard been there twice Laugh as much as you can at the situation play them at their own game get tons of evidence to back it up and remember everyone on here is behind you and will support you. Me personally and me boys wish you all the luck in the world. That there is 52 years of medical records. Wade through that Atos. Have a great evening. Be happy and Laugh. Derek your an IDIOT!
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @SeanRyan. I LOVE your Cat, what beautiful markings :-)
  • SeanRyanSeanRyan Member Posts: 66 Connected
    Which one Derek or Eduardo?
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @ SeanRyan.  Ohhh I couldn't possibly choose. I want both of them :-)
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    Just a quick update, I had a call back booked from ATOS complaints last Thurs/Frid but no-one rang and no letter either. @justice I agree with you about the lack of communication being a tactic to try and get us to give up. I have to admit as other things in life take over and need attention it's hard to keep going but I will. In the meantime I have an assessment on it's way from an OT who visited my home and saw for herself the problems I have with showering which ATOS and DWP won't accept. However the last Decision Maker did say she would look at my claim again if this specific report showed that I needed help which I'm sure it will. Can't wait to read it. However I did accept the award after my mobility was increased to higher rate. So I'm not sure where that leaves me. Will wait for the report to arrive and then decide what to do. I must get around to sending a complaint letter to DWP as you have done to end up at ICE. In the back of my mind I'm remembering I only have 2/3 years before a review of my claim. I should be a PIP expert by then, ha ha! No news from HCPC about my assessor's lack of qualifications. Seems they don't do their job properly either. All for now...x
  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @ Wildlife, Hi :-) why will Atos and DWP not accept the evidence from your OT? I would get that complaint letter in as fast as you can do so that you can hopefully move onto ICE. I know it is difficult when loads of other stuff is going on, but just think how you will feel if you don't do it. You will be wondering forever and a day then if it would have made any difference had you sent it.
    It drives me mad how we all keep having to prove ourselves, and trying to get any sense out of these People is like talking to the table.. I think the tactics is to send us all around the bend and back again until we are too dizzy to think!
    Just remember we are all on your side so you can come and talk or rant here as much as you like :-)
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Know what you mean, @Justice.  I had to go over the same material FIVE times during my PIP claim.  PIP application form; Atos assessment; MR request; appeal form; tribunal.  The process took nine months.  Worth it in the end as I won my appeal.  But now I've got some PTSD - which I hope won't last.

    It's political.  Even when the evidence is there, the government in the shape of the DWP simply don't want to pay out PIP - and hope people will give up along the way which many do.  They picked the wrong one with me, though, if they thought I'd give up.  Moral of the story:  stay the course despite everything - 65% of appeals succeed.


  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @Justice, I didn't mean that ATOS/DWP won't accept the OT report but that they won't accept I need help from another person to shower. I haven't got the report yet I've only rung Adult Care to ask for a copy to be sent to me. It'll be good to receive something that says it how it is. I'll at least get points for aids in future as 6 pieces of Mediquip aids are being delivered next week. Maybe I'll push for a home assessment next time. @Matilda, I have PTSD but it was witnessing horrific scenes from when my son was younger. I'm having an assessment this afternoon by IAPT. At least we have control over our own medical appointments and can continue to collect medical evidence. I now see that going to tribunal was the best way for you. I've chosen an even longer way to achieve a decent appropriate timescale and higher rate for both but will get there in the end. xx
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @wildlife.  Yes you will achieve your aims in the end.

    It is hard to 'prove' to the DWP, and tribunals for that matter, how difficult it is to bathe and dress on ones own in a reasonable time period.

    This could be solved by assessors coming and watching - claimants wearing swimsuits or burkinis as a base for modesty!
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited June 2017
    @Matilda Oh dear they'd say if you can put on a bikini or swimsuit you don't need help with anything. It isn't time that's the problem. The shower is over the bath so I have to lift both legs one at a time over the bath side. Apart from muscle weakness preventing my legs from going high enough I am at risk of falling with only one leg on the floor. I will ring ATOS again and see what's happening. Looks like they've put some nice people in customer services to pacify irate callers.. 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @wildlife

    Do you use a shower/bath stool in the bath to sit on?  And do you use a small stool to stand on to help you climb into the bath?

    I got two points for bathing from DWP for using a shower stool in the bath.

    Claimants get points for using aids if it's still difficult to do things using the aids.

    However, some people have said that using certain aid has lost them points.  One said she'd lost points because she uses a microwave and two had said they lost mobility points because they use a walker or shopping trolley.

    People get points for not being able to meet the criteria using aids, not because aids enable them to meet the criteria.



  • JusticeJustice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @wildlife and @matilda. sorry Wildlife I misunderstood what you meant about the DWP regarding the OT report. Matilda you made me laugh regarding the coming to watch the bathing and showering. It is nothing short of insulting that these people do not believe what we tell them. Doesn't matter what the letters from Doctors, and specialist Nurses ( People who in many cases know their patients, and how their problem affects them).
    My biggest problem has been getting them to believe how it is here during the night, MOST nights. Because of my Husband's disease, and also the medication he acts out his dreams, hallucinates, screams, yells, falls from the bed, doesn't know where he is or what's going on when that happens. It is very scary and upsetting. This can happen anything from once a night to half a dozen times. Each time I have to settle him , make sure he is ok, and then of course I lie awake worrying about everything. 
    He has tablets to help, but even they do not work every time. we have no idea of knowing if it is going to be a good night or a bad night, it is totally random. He is in danger of falling every time this happens.
    They do NOT believe me! I feel like saying " You bloody well come and stay here then for a few nights while I go in an Hotel". But yes, Matilda,Wildlife, they have picked the wrong ones in choosing to have a go at us. We will never give up.

    I am a bit angry now too, nothing to do with Scope, a Guy just knocked on the door to sign me up for some charity or other, what annoyed me though was that as soon as I opened the door he said " Hello LOVEY" !! I said " Whatever you want you just blew it PAL, by calling me LOVEY", and I shut the door. I know I know I am horrible, but what the heck lol.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Matilda There was mention of steps to get in the bath but when she saw my balance problems we decided it wouldn't help. I can't sit on anything hard either due to lower back spinal degeneration but I'm getting a board across the top of the bath to transfer onto till I stand up. I got 2 points for a rail I use but can't reach it till I get in the bath. I really need a wet room but the council only did the bathroom in 2014 so no chance of that. I've just got back from my mental health assessment and I've been diagnosed with Complex PTSD or Complex Trauma. I am getting a copy of a letter being sent to my GP suggesting I be referred to a Psychologist. @justice Gosh that is really tough for you having your sleep interrupted all the time. I can't count the times my hubby has had to wake me for shouting out in my sleep and he doesn't do it gently, it goes something like "Shut up for God's sake and go back to sleep". At least I don't fall out of bed but might bang myself on the rail being delivered next week to help me get out of bed. Didn't ring ATOS will ring tomorrow..
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @Justice and @wildlife

    Assesors and the DWP just do not understand what it is like to have disabilities.  It's hard enough have to cope with the disabilities without having PIP trauma heaped on top.
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