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Tribunal questions

thisisit
thisisit Member Posts: 10 Listener
Hi, im not happy with MR decision - want to appeal to tribunal. 
Just some quick questions -

- do i need to be detailed in 'grounds for appeal'? ...do i send in extra information as to why I'm  disputing the pa4 report? Do i send all this now or after i receive my 'appeal bundle'?

- if i ask for an oral hearing but later changed my mind could i ask for a paper appeal?...at what point can i ask for paper? Right until the day of the tribunal?

- what happens if you can't/don't attend the tribunal? - will they offer to make a paper based decision? Or will they dismiss the case?

- if i asked for a paper based decision does the dwp send me my bundle of appeal papers? Would i be given the chance to send more information at any time? Or would i need to send everything with the sscs1 form?

Thank you for any information 

Comments

  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello thisisit and welcome

    The SSCS1 only needs to have brief details as to why you want to appeal.

    You should wait for the bundle to complete your submission. You do not need to send more evidence but a  GP's letter that is very specific to your problems will help.

    Any evidence should be with the tribunal a week before the hearing. If you opt for a paper based hearing then you will not get a date as they fit them in as and when they can.

    You can change your mind from oral to paper hearing but be aware that paper based hearings are less successful as the panel really want to see you after all you are your best evidence.

    When you prepare your submission, attach any new evidence to the back with your name and NI on each page. Reference page and paragraph to each point that you are disputing.

    There is lots of info on here about appeal process please have a look around and come back with any questions

    CR   
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • thisisit
    thisisit Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Thanks for your information CR - can someone withdraw their appeal at anytime? ...even if they have been given a date for the hearing? 

    If i was given an oral hearing date but then changed my mind could i ask for the paper appeal? Or withdraw the appeal?

    Thanks for any info CR....
  • thisisit
    thisisit Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I was given LRC ...If i appeal to the tribunal could the DWP take that LRC away? - can a dwp DM revise the decision after they get my sscs1 tribunal appeal form? Send me the 'BUNDLE' or send a new decision - therefore award me less?

    Getting scared to appeal now!
  • thisisit
    thisisit Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I meant to say standard care....
    Is it possible that pre tribunal the dwp could take the award from me?
    Thanks for any info....
  • thisisit
    thisisit Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Need help please....really sorry but my terrible anxiety makes me doubt everything
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi
    Sorry I was off line

    Yes you can withdraw your appeal at anytime
    Yes you can change your mind from oral to paper based hearing
    No the DWP cannot take your award away because you appeal to tribunal
    It is possible but rare that pre tribunal the DWP could revise your award upwards
    Usually the the tribunal judge will advise you if they think your current award is in danger

    Please do ask any more questions and others mat have better/more help for your

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • thisisit
    thisisit Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Thank you very much CR..
  • thisisit
    thisisit Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Hi CR - how long does it take for the bundle to arrive?
    Thanks for any info....
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    The DWP have 28 days to prepare the bundle so you should get it 4-5 weeks

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • algy194
    algy194 Member Posts: 25 Listener
    What happens if I don't receive my bundle after 28 days I have been waiting longer and want a paper appeal Do I phone the DWP ask if it's been sent 
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    You should contact the tribunal clerk for an update

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • algy194
    algy194 Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you CR   ...It arrived today coincidence  ..just looks like a mass of papers in no order and the first page with my conditions of many is missing Mild Cognitive Impairment M.C.I  which is rather important as my memory is very poor. Thought out the fabricated  Atos report it states no signs of Cognitive impairment a long with multiple lies. Seems a tall order to make some valid case without basically resending what I all ready did that had proof of all 9 conditions from Type 1 Diabetes to Bowel incontinence and 20 years of Arthritis to name but a few. No consideration was given to how badly my conditions affect my life   ....I believe I only have 28 days from the date on the DWP bundle pack which was dated 6 days ago. I put so much honest effort into the Mandatory reconsideration and even sent photos that you can't see now photocopied.  No one's going to look through all them papers and make some Sence of them. Yet original they where all well written with reference to how poor my ability is from washing to dressing and going out. The stress factor is overwhelming as it was when applying for the DLA to PIP change over I ve been intouch with CA voice mail, I'd say it would take someone who can write well and know the system well for me to stand any chance with not alot of time left 
       Thank you Algy.   Paper tribunal would never have been able to face a oral  tribunal due to my mental state 
      
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi Algy

    There should be a hand written reference number on each page, this is the tribunal reference page system. If pages are missing then contact the tribunal
    You do not have to resend anything all your evidence should be in the bundle which the tribunal will have a copy of, please check it and contact the tribunal if any missing
    I have a simple formula for a submission but check your bundle first

    CR

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • algy194
    algy194 Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Hi CR yes there is a letter referring to M.C.Imparment but this condition is  not shown on the DWP List of illnesses and disabilities.  On  the page on the PIP2 Form Section 2 About your health conditions or Disability I needed to add more and used Q15 for Additional information and it show this condition listed there Which is out of the way from the other 11 conditions listed so they've not listed it and it's an important one to read as a condition at first look   ...I have mentioned this many times in my PIP2 Form many times all over looked like most was. I fear without the help of a professional person I will fail to write the necessary All my effort went into the MR I feel this is what I should have been sending this to the Tribunal and kept the MR minimal   ....I don't know just feel quite lost now 
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi algy

    As long as the evidence is in the bundle the tribunal will see it, doesn't matter now whether DWP have listed or not.

    Your submission does not have to be complicated, in fact the simpler the better.
    Your job is to show that you meet the criteria, you have already done the work for it. Often it is not the evidence but the way it is read ( or not ) You need to lead the reader to the exact page and paragraph of the evidence for each descriptor, make it idiot proof

    My formula if you want it as follows

    Write a brief history of your claim

    Say the descriptors you do agree with and the points awarded

    One at a time state the descriptors you disagree with and the points awarded
    Reference each to the page and paragraph of your evidence that shows you meet the descriptor and why. If you need to clarify any do so but don't write "War and peace"
    Then the points you should have been awarded

    Do this for each one, some descriptors will probably use some of the same references but repeat them if necessary.

    If you have any further evidence then attach it to the back with your name and NIN on each page

    Write a brief summary with the total points and the award that should have been given

    CR

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • algy194
    algy194 Member Posts: 25 Listener
    Thank you CR    ...can I give an example to see if I'm doing it correct as you are saying please you see I did that with the MR or thought I did and no notice was taken what so ever so I feel like I did it wrong Can I not use what I have already sent the DWP even though they totally ignored all my challenges which I believe is common or am I better off Starting from scratch   ...Example "all my points awarded were low ie all 2 points totaling 10"  I Scored 2 points for using a microwave to cook a hot meal The only meals I make are ready made processed microwave food If I was to make a simple meal I would need help cutting preparing etc I have had accidents in the past I thought this might have scored more than the 2 points  ie 4 points...same with Bowel incontinence this happens without warning  I need help getting cleaned changing this was scored 2 point as if I only need a pad to cope, I thought this should have been 6 points, is it my wording.  I have 11 conditions and moving around with osteoporosis Arthritis and Diabetic Neuropathy  is much harder than Atos suggested. I wasn't even asked to do any activity tests The HP said 'I can see you can't do them so I won't be asking stop worrying chill, So you see CR I feel there is nothing more I can write unless I am writing completely wrong I can't find any examples to see where I am wording wrong as I probably am wording it all wrong.  I really would like to give this my best shot as like most the grief and constant Stress as made me very depressed and unwell, again like so many good people 
        I need help washing behind back shoulders, 2 points given I manage well with a bath board according to Atos, also I can ask for directions I said so according to Atos I said no such thing all recorded on my phone but useless as evidence. I am sorry I'm waffling on, I feel I need to see some examples to get the gist    Thank you again CR. Is it possible to be granted more time for the Paper Tribunal you see it leaves me a lot less than 28 days from the date I reciveved the Bundle to the date the DWP's sent date 
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi algy

    If you need more time then you can request to change to an oral hearing and then you will have up to 7 days before the date of the hearing to submit your case. You can then ask to change back to a paper hearing although oral hearings do have a better success rate.

    In your example you need to say why so
    Because of my arthritis I need assistance to cut and prepare vegetables as the pain in my wrists means I cannot safely hold a knife and have cut myself

    Washing
    I don't believe the assessor took into consideration that my pain medication takes 2-3 hours to start working because of my arthritis and the pain in my wrists I cannot wash my upper body until midday with out assistance

    Dressing
    I don't believe the assessor took into consideration that my pain medication takes 2-3 hours to start working because of my arthritis and the pain in my wrists I cannot dress my upper body until midday with out assistance

    Managing toilet needs
    I have bowel incontinence which happens without warning. because my medication takes 2-3 hours to start working  I am unable to get to the toilet in time and due to the arthritis pain I am unable to clean myself or change my clothing

    These are just examples, make use of the reliability factors
    Can you do an activity
    Safely
    Repeatedly ( as often as is necessary )
    To an acceptable standard
    In a timely manner
    and on the majority of days

    CR


    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • algy194
    algy194 Member Posts: 25 Listener
    CR Thank you I get what you are saying now for some reason without seeing examples I just couldn't understand the way in which the wording is put over I was saying due to Arthritis and Diabetic Neuropathy the pain factor is far to much to dress without assistance  I've had Arthritis 20 years and with Neuropathy it is to much for me these days to do this activity in a reasonable time safely    ..I see why the HP always used the term takes mild pain killers or words to that effect implying every activity was just mild Yet Tramadol I would say wasn't  mild and Pregablin max dose was never mentioned, These Atos people do this everyday so it's second nature, it's very hard to grasp that way of thinking and wording unless you are aware of the cut throat approach they have and are able to avoid questions that would score high points as they did with me 
      I will rewrite my disagreements which is with most, I seemed to be writing lots as apposed to stray forward to the point and why 
    Thank you again CR very much appreciated it's difficult when you just can't get it clear in your mind what way the approach needs to be. You have been more than very helpful 
       Kindest regards Algy 

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