Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Losing money because son claims enhanced PIP

SystemSystem Posts: 519

Scope community team

This discussion was created from comments split from: Can you claim ESA as well as PIP?.

Replies

  • kentwomankentwoman Member Posts: 6 Listener

    Hi Son's on enhanced PIP. 23 yrs old. I am on Carers allowance. We are claiming Housing Benefit, Council tax benefits. Council have sent a letter today saying they are now taking £15.40 a week off HB (£3.40 council tax) because he has PIP coming in and unless I claim ESA for him as well (passported benefit?) never heard of it before. they will continue to now take this extra money from my benefits every week unless he claims ESA as well. Has to have a 'sick note' from doc's to say if he's fit for work. Already gone thru ATOS PIP assessment.

    I was told by advisor at council benefits dept that when he's 25 they will count his PIP as income and take lowest amount from me. (was £13.50 in May)

    Told that info was wrong? This blokes paid by council to advise people on benefits. It's all started as I suddenly got a pension pot and two small pensions in Dec.

    Anyone know if this is right?

  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    There is a benefit calculator on the site have you tried using it? Perhaps you could also try contacting a benefits adviser on the site? I can't say I am surprised by any of these departments trying to cut benefits wherever possible though. It's the current trend of the times.

    Sorry I can't give you any answers though.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • debsidoodebsidoo Member Posts: 327 Pioneering
    Hi Kentwoman.
    As far as I was aware pip is disregarded as income for housing and council tax purposes as it is extra money from DWP to help with the extra costs incurred by a disability.I think you should contact the council and ask for an explanation in writing as to why your sons pip has been included in their calculation.
       Debsidoo.x
  • Government_needs_reformGovernment_needs_reform Member Posts: 858 Pioneering
    PIP is for you as a disabled person, and is NOT classed as income and therefore it should not be counted as SUCH. The council are wrong in calculating this as income.

    "As with DLA, PIP will be fully disregarded as income for Housing Benefit and Council Tax Support. This means that the income you receive from PIP will not be included when working out how much your income is."

    They are in thre wrong. 
    ⬇️
    I created one of the campaign election videos for Labour, and Jeremy Corbyn,
    This is a new version of Emeli Sande, Hope "You Are Not Alone
    I highlighted everything that's wrong with this country from benefits, NHS, UC etc, but now we have to put up with the hate now that is the Tories. 

    You can see the video here.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5o8hRHh9IY


  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,289 Disability Gamechanger
    As for your own extra income you state a small pension pot amount ??  Plus your other pensions may have taken you over the threshold for getting full housing and council tax benefits, as for your son PIP ask th council why this was taken into account when awarding your housing and council tax benefits as it is an exempt benefit when doing such calculations.
  • despondentdespondent Member Posts: 88 Connected
    Hi system, I agree with others that PIP should not be included as income. I am only responding because if your son isn't working, why not apply for ESA for him.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,996 Disability Gamechanger
    These figures look like last years non-dependent deductions. Money they take off your HB/CTR because they assume the person has an independent income with which they can contribute to your household whether they do or not. You may want to check that the Council are actually aware he gets PIP.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    kentwoman,

    I agree with Mike, these are non-dependant deductions - money taken off your HB/CTR because an adult who is not your partner/lodger/tenant is living with you. I don't think being on PIP helps at all in itself (it would only help if you were the person on PIP).

    At the moment, whilst your son is 25, no money is taken off your HB/CTB. But when he's 25, it will be taken off - it's really very little to do with his PIP though, it would come off even if he wasn't on PIP.  What the council are suggesting is that whilst your son is under 25, if he was on income-related ESA or Universal Credit (which he may be able to claim in his own right), then there would be NO deduction - you would be better off.

    It doesn't mean they count his PIP as income. It's more than overall they expect him to make a contribution, as an adult who lives with you. So, you do need to think about what income he could have. And that is probably going to be either income-related ESA, or Universal Credit (it will depend on your postcode which he can claim).

    One he is 25, even if he is on benefits (income-related ESA or UC), the deduction will be made at the level of £15.25 from your HB (those are this year's figures mind, and it could go up in April 18).

    I'm sorry, but I think the council's advice is exactly right. Your son should claim something (income-related ESA or UC, depending on where you live), so that until he is 25 you don't lose any more money, and when he is 25, there will be some money coming to your son, which could help with the deduction. 

    The deduction doesn't mean your son has to pay you anything - it's just that if you have an adult living with you, this is what happens to your HB and council tax reduction. So one way of thinking about it is, what money could your son claim to help with the shortfall? And whilst he is under 25, claiming income-related ESA or UC would mean no deduction.

    I really would recommend following the council's advice. 

    Will

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    Everyone here has to pay some council tax, for people on benefits it's usually £16 a month. Because i am getting carers i am being charged £65 a month, or 25% of my income.

    I ignore their letters and bailiffs ones, have been doing so for over a year, initially this was because i was in too much pain to deal with my mail or even notice it, now it is because i do not care and am refusing to comply with the system.

    By the time i'd got my pain under control and realised i had loads of mail to sort out they had got bailiffs involved and these people had added over £500 to a £120 council tax bill, i've refused to pay either. I have only contacted the council on this matter as my bill is with them and not with any bailiff, but after phoning the council and asking why they would get bailiffs involves when it wasn't even the end of the financial year the woman on the phone was rude and said i was already getting a discount and should pay several thousand pounds a year, her personal opinion and not the law or councils rules btw. I did manage to get into the council offices at one point last year and told them i am mentally ill and gave them proof of my physical condition, i've not been able to get into town since. I got took to court this month again, they can play their stupid authority game without me,i really don't care.Letters saying i owe this and that are useless when there is no law that forces me into a contract with anyone to pay them.


  • kentwomankentwoman Member Posts: 6 Listener

    Hi thanks for all of your advice. My son is 23 yrs old, HB advisor said when he's 25 they will start deducting income from pip at the lowest rate. They've backdated the money he 'should' be paying back to feb and now  I've got overpayments on HB and C Tax to pay and my payments towards rent and c Tax have increased.

    I only got two pensions at 60 yrs old, £30 (which wiped out the income support I got each week) and £32 a week which is above what I got before. Now I'm paying £79 C Tax a month. Besides the pension pot (which I worked hard to put into, they are also taking £27 a week tariff income off that as well) I was full time working and looking after my other older son for years! I'm now nearly £175 a month down on what actual money I had before at the end of the month.

    The pension pot will be used each week/month now to pay the rent and c tax, so it won't be long before the council will have to recalculate my change of circumstances when the capital has been used on rent and other essentials, like a new mattress, which was badly needed and could not be bought before I had the pension pot.


    I know I'm fortunate to have a pension pot, but its been a poisoned chalice, the councils coming up with new reasons to get their hands on it.

    It's hard work looking after an autistic adult and the authorities are making it harder and harder to survive. How much is it to look after someone like my son in a home or sheltered housing? I bet I'm cheaper and better for him?

    I've been recovering from a broken leg since March so this has been a real kick in the guts and extremely stressful to cope with, who looks after me?

    I will see the CAB next week and put in an appeal to the council to see exactly where they get this info on PIP, I cannot find a clause anywhere about taking it as income.



  • April2018momApril2018mom Posts: 2,869 Member
    Hugs. 

    It is in your best interests to follow the council’s advice and respect their decision too. I know it’s hard. But they are trying to make sure that you are getting your money’s worth here. Councils do not always do that. Ask them to explain anything that you do not understand. Listen to them. 
  • kentwomankentwoman Member Posts: 6 Listener

    Hi Thanks for your advice.

    It made me mad that one employee told me he would not be counted until he was 25, then a week later a letter arrives saying they are taking £15.25 a week and £3,20 a week from his pip from my benefits.

    Apart from using my pension pot up to cover the shortfall,  I have not way of replacing this money, unless I live on bowls of rice, instead of buying proper food.


    I will be contacting CAB to confirm this. I cannot find anything online that says its right or wrong to take it.

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