Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
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Should she have been placed on contribution based benefit?

SystemSystem Posts: 521

Scope community team

This discussion was created from comments split from: esa income related or contribution based.

Replies

  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    My daughter who is now 28, was placed on incapacity benefit in youth. She has never worked. She was transferred to ESA contribution based benefit. She has PIP for daily living and mobility. Former at standard rate and latter at lower rate. I have been told that if we move her to ESA income related benefit she would qualify for the severe disability premium payment for people who live alone and don't have carers. My question is, should she have been placed on contribution based benefit and if so, can she claim the disability supplement without changing to ESA income based benefit. She is in the support group by the way. The extra money would be very useful to help pay for support workers for her. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,

    First you should check if her area is a full Universal Credit area, if it is then claiming the Income Related top ups (premiums) could mean a transfer to UC. Check here area here http://ucpostcode.entitledto.co.uk/ucdate

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Paddock59Paddock59 Member Posts: 26 Connected
    Would have thought if she has never worked she wouldn't have paid any national insurance contributions so she wouldn't be entitled to contribution based esa. I'm 100% sure so I would check with someone qualified to confirm this.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi @KarenA

    Don't worry about Universal Credit - as your daughter is entitled to an SDP she is currently excluded from it, so it would be ESA.

    Also it is to some extent correct that it is contributions based, as it was transferred from IB in Youth.

    However - she should always have had an income based 'top-up' for as long as she was entitled to the SDP, IF she is entitled to an SDP. The missing info in your query is (1) whether she lives in a property with any other adults who are not disabled. If she does, then she will not be entitled to an SDP. If she did, but no longer does, that explains to some extent why it was missed in the first place; and (2) whether anyone claims Carer's Allowance for her, as again this would negate her entitlement to the SDP.

    If she lives on her own and no-one claims Carer's, then she should contact ESA to request an ESA3 form (to add the income-related top-up), and ask for backdate from when she first qualified.

    Even if she doesn't qualify for an SDP, she may be entitled to an Enhanced Disability Premium, if she's in the Support Group, which is a lower amount, but still worth having.

    Let us know how you get on!

    Mary
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @KarenA

    Don't worry about Universal Credit - as your daughter is entitled to an SDP she is currently excluded from it, so it would be ESA.

    Mary
    Hi,
    I'm a little confused by this. I thought that this hasn't yet been put into action. Please can you confirm that this change has already taken place and those that currently claim SDP will not have to move to UC if a change of circumstances prompts a move before the transitional protection is in place? I would appreciate further advice on this. Thanks.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 273 Pioneering
    Hi poppy123456

    I'm a little confused as well... I think that the High Court decision has been made about this but if the detailed instructions aren't yet with the DWP, which I think they are not,  then currently people will have to claim Universal Credit and wait for the compensation. 

    We've had a few calls at the Helpline on this and we haven't been able to tell people anything  better  than  this. 

    https://www.leighday.co.uk/News/News-2018/June-2018/First-legal-challenge-against-Universal-Credit-fin
    This is about the judgment, but it always takes some time for the DWP to implement these.

    (Regarding incapacity benefit in youth btw, this was often paid to people when they left school if it seemed unlikely that they would be able to work, and it  had regulations attached to it that were similar to contributory benefit rules - capital didn't count for example. Anyway, it won't exist now, once absolutely every incapacity benefit claim has been moved over to ESA). 

    People who got incapacity in youth, like everyone else who had incapacity benefit, should have had income-related ESA considered when they were moved over from one benefit to the next, and so they will be eligible for arrears following the High Court decision and subsequent government announcement about the DWP wrongly not considering income-related ESA on transfer for IB to ESA,  if they have been deprived of income in the meantime. 

    The DWP exercise to pay these arrears is underway.

    Gill_Scope
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi Gill,

    Thanks for this, this is exactly what i thought.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Thanks for your advice. She had been living at home until about 2 years ago. Since then she has lived alone with me and her dad supporting her ( but we live in our own house) No one  has ever claimed carers allowance for her. We were told at the tribunal for PIP that she should get sda. So I think then that I will ask for the form to try and get SDA as she really needs support to live independently and has been waiting for two years for social services to decide if they can help her. So this money would help towards the cost of that. 
  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Do you think the DWP will consider everyone to see if they are entitled to any compensation or do you have to apply? 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,
    It's called SDP and not SDA and she would only be entitled to it from when she lived alone, providing she's been claiming the daily living part of PIP for the whole time she's lived alone. She or you (if you're her appointee) will need to contact ESA for her to be assessed for the Income related top up and once successful she can then claim SDP.

    Compensation? I highly doubt that but it sure is wishful thinking.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Sorry, when I said compensation, I just meant if she was due any arrears
  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Sorry if I'm being a bit dense, I am her appointee so if I contact ESA? To see if she can have the income related top up, and they say she can, does this mean shexwill then be on income related ESA? Or can she stay on contribution based ESA AND get the top up, and are there any benefits to staying on contribution based ESA? Appreciate your advice please. Don't want to make the wrong decision for my daughter.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    She will remain on Contribution based with the Income related top up. For Contribution based those that live with a partner that works their income isn't counted and they can still claim a contribution based benefit. Income related depends on household income. In your daughters case, she lives alone so there's no household income. For those that claim income related (even if it's a top up) they will qualify for free dental and prescriptions.

    As i advised ring ESA on her behalf tomorrow and ask to fill in the ESA3 form over the phone, or if they won't do that ask them to send you the form. This needs to be filled in before any income related top ups can be added because they will assess her for the top up. When i say assess, i don't mean attend an assessment.

    Once she gets the top up there's 2 premiums that can be paid. Enhanced disability premium (EDP) of £16.40 per week is automatically added to those in the Support Group who are claiming Income Related. As she's been on Contributions based the EDP can be backdated to when she was originally placed into the support group if she's never lived with a partner that works.

    The SDP can be claimed after they've assessed her for the income related top up. This premium isn't automatically paid. For this you'll need to ring ESA and ask to fill in the IS10 form to claim for SDP. This can again be done over the phone, but if they refuse then ask them to send you the form. They will then backdate this money to when she first started to live alone, providing she claimed either Daily living PIP or mid/high rate care DLA.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,002 Disability Gamechanger
    There is good reason to be confused as UC have been not only transferring people on SDP but allowing them to keep it too in some cases. Fundamentally it’s a mess.
  • al1b0y13al1b0y13 Member Posts: 13 Connected
    esa is 1 benefit with 2 elements(income related and contribution).there is no need to have to make a claim for income related when an award of contribution is in place.if in the support group this means the claimant is entitled to enhanced disability premium aka the income related element.if the decision maker at the dwp aka the D.M,fails to award this entitlement(E.D.P),at the conversion point(being moved from incapacity benefit to e.s.a.then that is an official error and grounds for revision.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    al1b0y13 said:
    esa is 1 benefit with 2 elements(income related and contribution).there is no need to have to make a claim for income related when an award of contribution is in place.if in the support group this means the claimant is entitled to enhanced disability premium aka the income related element.if the decision maker at the dwp aka the D.M,fails to award this entitlement(E.D.P),at the conversion point(being moved from incapacity benefit to e.s.a.then that is an official error and grounds for revision.
    That's not exactly true, sorry. Not everyone is entitled to the income related top up when Contributions based ESA or JSA is being claimed. Some people live with partners that work which won't entitle then to any Income related top ups. To be entitled to any top ups a claimant will always need to be assessed before a decision is made to know whether or not they qualify.

    As the other person was originally claiming Incapacity benefit when people transferred from this to ESA they were automatically put onto contributions based ESA and they weren't assessed for any income related top ups. This was an error made by the DWP to which they have acknowledged this error and are currently in the process of contact those that may qualify for the top ups. If an error was made then they'll be back dated all the money they are owed.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Gosh it's complicated isn't it. I've been too scared to apply for the extra money in case they move her to universal credits as lots of people seem to lose money once on that. She has always lived with us until two years ago but no one has ever claimed carers allowance as I've always worked full time. So hopefully we can get the extra money for her as she needs someone other than me to teach her how to look after herself. She can't accept my help. Just leaves it all to me. So I think she needs someone not emotionally involved to help her as they won't bevelled to do it, just help her do it. Being eligible for NhS prescription s and dentists will help too. I forgot when her prescription certificate thing ran out last year. Been fined hundreds of pounds. She will never cope with the paperwork on her own but has no other support as social services refuse to help as she has autism not a learning disabiliy. Scares me what will happen when I die. 
  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Thanks for all your advice by the way.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi,
    I've found something that may help you claim this income related top up without worrying about moving your daughter onto UC.

    But a claimant getting old-style contributory ESA can still top this up with income-related ESA, rather than UC: the addition of income-related ESA would be by way of a supersession rather than a new claim for ESA.

    The above is copied and pasted from this link.http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/esa-uc
    Have a read of the 6th paragraph down, and it states exactly your problem. I'm unsure how you go about doing a supersession but it's certainly worth having a google to see how. I hope this helps. Good luck with your daughter! I know exactly how you feel, your daughter sounds very much like my daughter only mine is younger and still lives with me.

    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • al1b0y13al1b0y13 Member Posts: 13 Connected
    Poppy i was referring to a single person,in that capacity i am correct,however,and perhaps,in hindsight,i may have been better having stated that,however due to my condition,i sometimes assume my audience will know this,i really must be a tad more specific.i am sure the slightest mistake or seeming oversight will have you at the ready to correct one.bless.
  • al1b0y13al1b0y13 Member Posts: 13 Connected
    Great reply benefits trading co.its very important to give such accurate advice,and were some replies may seem to be of help,and to some extent they may have a modicum of truth,they still can be open,and left,to debate.keep up the good work.your replies are most appreciated and respected.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 273 Pioneering
    Hello again

    Have just re-read all of this, and  I apologise for the short-comings of my post of 14 August. As Poppy says, this young woman had Incapacity Benefit in Youth that was converted to old-style ESA. Old-style  ESA has two (income-related and contributory) components. The CPAG  link explains that as income-related old-style and contributory old-style ESA are the same benefit,  a supersession can now be done (no new clam is needed), a higher amount of benefit can be awarded, and the claimant can insist on not going onto Universal Credit.

    This was a light bulb moment for me. 

    Gill_Scope

  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
    So I wonder how I go about getting a supersession then. Are there solicitor s that can help with this does anyone know? Thanks for all the support. It's a real minefield.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • KarenAKarenA Member Posts: 25 Connected
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