PIP, DLA and AA
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Tribunal took the rest away

tru88letru88le Member - under moderation Posts: 94 Courageous
Well had tribunal this morning and needed two points for mobility and 4 for the daily living.
They reduced my mobility to 4 or 6 points not sure offhand and reduced my daily living to zero.
All in all a bad result.
Maybe i will have to repay the daily living ive received since the assessment...
I originally had the DLA  as a lifetime award and now in the face of it I just cant go on.
Putting a brave face on for family but really im just planning on hanging myself tonight.
I feel robbed by the tribunal, they seemed to focus on things that undermined my condition such as a locum doctor saying no muscle wastage which i thought would need prior kniwledge of my legs to make such a statement . Yet my doc says i cant walk 25 yards...
Anyway to take it all yet state they accept i have heart failure seems extreme. But i give up. Ive given up. I cant work but cant get my pip now. I cant face ANYMORE its just done for me

Replies

  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2020
    Hi @tru88le, I am so sorry to hear about your tribunal experience, it must be extremely frustrating!

    Is there any member of your family or friends that you might be able to talk to about how you are currently feeling?

    If you are feeling suicidal and in immediate danger then please do not hesitate to ring 999 or go to your closest A&E, you are important and there is support out there.

    Have you ever discussed mental health with a doctor?

    Samaritans can be contacted on 116 123 and they have volunteers on hand 24/7 to support people in a mental health crisis. If you would rather text then you can text SHOUT to 85258 and a crisis volunteer will reply to you ASAP.

    Alternatively there is Saneline on 08457 678000 or the MIND Legal line 0300 466 6463.

    Please do keep in touch @tru88le, you're important to us.
    Community Partner
    Scope

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  • tru88letru88le Member - under moderation Posts: 94 Courageous
    Thx
    Could have coped with it failing but not to this extent the knock on effect of losing it all means im going to lose my home and car and go back to my old bedroom at my mums , basically going back in time 30 years..
    Honestly its a cop out and i dont care i cant even lift my head up to look around getting help will only add to other peoples problems in the family.
    I think i am helping myself.
    And whats it all come too when the only place to say anything is here
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    HI,

    I'm sorry to hear this. I see from another thread of yours that the last time you attended the hearing it was adjourned and you had a warning that you could lose everything you already have, if you continue. Did you get some expert advice before you proceeded with the hearing today?

    There could have been contradictions in the evidence that you sent which could have gone against you. This can happen if you don't look through all the evidence you have very carefully before sending it.

    You have 1 month from today to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings. Once you receive it you need to find someone to have a look to see if they can find the error in law.

    Regarding your home, may i ask if you rent or own it? If you rent it are you claiming for help with the rent? Do you live alone or with a partner?

    I'm going to tag a dear friend of mine who gives great advice regarding mental health and i'm sure he will be very happy to advise you. @thespiceman your advice will be appreciated here please and thank you!
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 965 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2020
    @tru88le - I'm sorry to hear of your situation...

    I'm slightly confused as to what the position is - have you gone from 8 points for mobility to 4 points now?

    From what you say if your doctor has examined your walking, and concluded that you can't walk more than 25yards you should probably get 8 points (12c - more than 20 metres but less than 50metres)

    As far as I know the award (or lack of it) starts now - it's not retrospective ...

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    For those that are confused here's a link to the previous thread https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/67118/first-lower-tribunal-adjourned-bias#latest

    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @tru88le, thank you for getting back to us.

    It must be extremely difficult to think of losing those things, have you thought about getting the statement of reasons like @poppy123456 has suggested?

    You certainly are not adding problems and seeking help for your mental health is really important. Here is some information from MIND about how to help yourself with suicidal thoughts.

    Would you like our team to reach out for support from a friend, family or emergency services on your behalf? If you email us on [email protected] they we can get that sorted.

    Please do bare in mind we are not available 24/7 and Samaritans can be contacted on 116 123 if you need support through the evening or night.

    Please take care, you deserve support and you are not a burden.
    Community Partner
    Scope

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    Complete our feedback form to help us to improve your community.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2020
    Hello @tru88le   Pleased to meet you .

    Thank you for my friend @poppy123456 for asking me to help  member and lot of support and information on mental health.

    I am sorry to hear your suffering and sorry to hear what happened at the tribunal.

    I wanted to add have been there do understand the problems.

    I have mental health myself and give, support help to members of our Community.

    Offer compassion, empathy and sympathy.

    Please may I suggest the following mental health charities.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    https://www.mind.org.uk.

    https://www.rethink.org.

    All charities offer the following advice, guidance and information on mental health. Benefits situations like this.   Reassurance and look at where they can help you.

    Please consider the links the team and community members have given you.

    Other relevance this might give you more reassurance , lot more self esteem.  Thinking about the problems that you face think you will not be able to cope.

    You will the getting about and transport problems the loss of some money the revaluations adjusting of lifestyle has to be.

    Other thing I had a car on the scheme live alone.  Had one for twenty years now middle fifties been nearly a year or more.  Since losing the lifeline.

    Did you know there are alternatives, solutions and answers to every problem getting about.

    I contacted local taxi firm, saved a fortune a lot of money after all is worth harming yourself for a car and time of change.

    I struggle to walk hard every day in pain and use the benefit I have to get about but rarely.

    Did I ever had suicidal thoughts one time but recognised the need to contact my Doctors speak to some one.

    Motability do offer alternatives schemes including car rental. from firms, if you wish to have that.  Volunteer schemes and much more on their website.

    As it only used for the taxi for appointments, hospital or the odd trip but you look on line for one who is supporting members of our community.

    One other point these taxis park near outside banks, post offices, have their own badges and can legally.

    Taxi firms know what is happening to our community and are aware. Totally interested in supporting the community for me a lifeline.

    Against costs of travelling, time energy and my disability do I wish to be driving.  Add to that always have found that there are willing supportive people out there.

    Shopping everything you need on line, big bulk buys and those stores from Supermarkets. Because you do not need the costs extra used that to fund on line websites.

    You change the way you eat more veggie dishes cheap eats. Bills gas and Electric on line easier to negotiate.

    TV packages broadband speak to your provider , want your business hate to see you leave.  Same with any thing financial this organisation useful.

    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk.

    Helps with money advice and information.

    Also ask for meds and other things to be delivered.  Doctors on line websites saves a lot of hassle.

    Need to say best thing ever not having a car.  

    Please can I just also add had no money many times for around ten years as I had the constant reassessed treadmill. One assessor say am fit eighteen months down the line or longer says am unfit.

    Went back and forth used mental health charities interventions.

    All the time this a happening change back and forth, many times had switch became limited funds.

    You become savvy smart and wary.  Once had this loss of money got sorted with buying small freezer, fridge freezer my salvation, used it to store food items as had no money for transport or all went to bills.

    Any appointments found local volunteers. 

    Hope that helps you.

    Please consider anything every one has contributed please also know think your going back Thirty years.

    Sorry to hear that so did I .  Understand when losing my car in a few days lost all my friends really. All those with cars thought help me.

    Tough upsetting emotional but glad to get rid and after all they are the problem.

    I am aware if I get reassessed again would I get the car again or consider if I got the qualifying points. Got the car then lost it again further more.

    Please contact local services Councils lots of support services for our Community.

    These organisations are in the community to help those in a crisis or a problem.

    Do help with welfare and assistance ..

    https://www.salvationarmy.org.uk.

    https://www.redcross.org.uk.

    Please take care of your self your important valued member of our Community.

    If I can help further please contact me lots of time to listen anytime.

    @thespiceman








    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • tru88letru88le Member - under moderation Posts: 94 Courageous
    First Im so so sorry!
    I just lost the plot today.
    I was taken by surprise at what seems a harsh result.
    Thank you and I dont deserve your kindness
    you  picked me up honestly 
     i'm really ashamed I posted that.

    After the tribunal it seemed  so unexpected  that i had no arguments left when in reality there was a lot wrong with the evidence and there was an ominous feeling of predetermination.
    At the end of the adjournment
    I was warned previously that ithe award could well go down before they ever saw the evidence..
    At the start of todays adjourned tribunal the opening was the same warning.
    Then they said anything i said was to relate to the assessment date of 2018 but they kept quoting one particular nurse from 2017 who didnt know me and i clashed a bit with.  Then they were asking about now and changing tense why didnt they stick to things from 2018...
    Anyway they only picked negative moments in my history another was my leg muscles are much thinner so they referred to a locum gp's comment of "no muscle wastage" to contradict me.
    Why didnt i do the cardio exercise course? ( in 2012!) Which i simply wasnt up to doing then.
    I thought im damned if i did it and damned if etc....
    They also requested only two years records which entirely omitted the cardiac history that was what i was claiming for _ heart failure..
    So i needed 4 points for daily living enhanced  and 2 for mobility.enhanced
    Came out with zero points for daily living and 4 for mobility and thus was a bit stricken.
    Once again im sorry.


  • tru88letru88le Member - under moderation Posts: 94 Courageous
    My advice is get a welfare adviser to take the case on and  go with you.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2020
    Hello @tru88le   Thank you for your reply.  Please do not apologise you have done nothing wrong.

    You need some support, advice and most important of all kind caring people to guide you.

    Understand I know have been there.  Since claiming benefits early 1980's a period of employment.

    Claiming again 1990's now middle Fifties every day being on here as a volunteer. I speak every day to members like your self. Hard working proud upstanding  and asking for nothing but some help and support.

    From a Government who is causing problems.  Serious implications that the systems of benefits are not working.

    So much so we hear stories like yours every day and spend lots of our time being a compassionate empathise community.

    I use this forum daily live on my own have no one now since every one in my social life deserted me.

    So use this made lovely friends whom I talk to every day.

    My illness needs a space a place to talk.

    Please if I can advise please consider any of the links I provided.

    Just these are members of staff who many like yourself have knowledge, experience to help you.

    In house benefit advisors will sometimes intervene in benefit situations. Contact DWP on your behalf, do forms and issue reports.  Attend assessments, tribunals do reviews.

    Please talk to them, I used all the time any forms anything benefits.

    They may even discuss with you the way forward, other options.

    Mental health is so important and well being. 

    Often accessing support can be beneficial and you may not realise do care have concern.

    One other point please what you have is a life precious and all the things that have happened in your life  the achievements the aspects of your life you have attained .

    I know painful, I know heart-breaking decisions, how to move on. I will add further use the charities often have lots of signposting . Additional avenues to explore.

    You need reassurance, self esteem met those like you enrol in the charities now work for them as an employee.

    Just a poignant thought.

    Please remember we are here anytime. Please ask any questions anything you need or wish to know the answer to.

    We all here to be a friend please reach out and touch, contact us we are going no where.

    Please take care .

    @thespiceman


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @tru88le, great to hear from you. You certainly do not have anything to apologise for and you are most welcome here. 

    Here is some information about how to further appeal to the upper tribunal. If there is anything you need clarifying then please do let us know!
    Community Partner
    Scope

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  • tru88letru88le Member - under moderation Posts: 94 Courageous
    @cristobal
    I had 10 points for mobility slready which went to 4
    I had daily living component which went to zero points.
    I needed 4 points for daily living enhanced and 2 for mobility enhanced. Which didnt seem animpossible hurdle.

  • tru88letru88le Member - under moderation Posts: 94 Courageous
    edited February 2020
    @Spiceman
    I had already adapted to the loss of my mobility car and reduced income when i swapped to pip over a year ago which is what the appeal was relating to.
    Im pretty good at finding bargains and that. The car i have is a cheap runaround bought with the good condition bonus  from Motability.
    I kept the car for longer so didnt get the money they offer if your car has to go back. Luckily it turned out to be a decent runner and has only cost the usual car bills like insurance etc, but it will be too much now.
    That initial loss of my dla and mobility car over a year ago and loss of cash was a shock but nothing compared to yesterday.
    It wouldnt be so bad if i could walk to a bus stop but im going to be stranded and have had to shelve my plans to get a flat as i wont manage on my own. So im at my parents in my old bedroom.
    I'm not going to do anything stupid but I do feel foggy and out of synch with reality at the moment.
    I just contacted a welfare place (yesterday)  the Beacon Centre in st helens, offering representation and advice... the reply they sent was "sorry we dont do welfare cases".
    It very clealy stated it did in the advert, but basically there is little help in this town for pip appeals and others i found in other local areas are only for their own residents.
    Ive also contacted a local solicitors who do welfare work and maybe representation  called Stephensons but not heard bqck yet. Apparently they had funds from the law society to take on over 3000 new cases  but knowing me the ad was probably from years ago.
    They do at least have a genuine history of welfare work and its right across from the court where tribunals are held.
  • tru88letru88le Member - under moderation Posts: 94 Courageous
    Regretfully ive said too much and people are judging me on the basis of this few points here.
    Regarding the distance walkable i also had evidence of shorter distances so 8 points while correct doesnt reflect all the evidence which ive mentioned too much of already.
    In the way your correct on that point other people are coming to c9nclusions with other things such as poppy deciding the warning i got in the first hearing was the cause of losing the whole award and due to conflicting evidence in other words two dates not matching from a decade ago. So looking back i have given a few pointa but enough that people think they can judge me.


    I mean poppy creating links to follow a thread! Its like a witch hunt.

  • Chloe_ScopeChloe_Scope Scope Posts: 10,662 Disability Gamechanger
    This thread has been closed, and will not be opened again. This is due to breaking the Terms & Conditions and the Community Guidelines.

    Please use this as a reminder to everybody to be respectful of everyone. Here's a post about commenting on the content, not the contributor you can read.

    We want to ensure the community is a place for everyone and that everyone feels supported and safe while using the site.

    It is completely up to members how they take guidance and a reminder that they do have a choice. It's also important to respect other views. 

    If you would like to discuss this further or need further support then please email the community team: [email protected]
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