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Appealing mobility element should I include disputed daily living activities as well?

yanniyanni Member Posts: 50 Courageous
edited April 5 in PIP, DLA and AA

 I am appealing to tribunal for the mobility element of my award but I don’t know whether to include the disputed daily living activities .

 On my PIP form I said I felt 8 points for communicating was appropriate (unchanged from last time ) but I have been awarded 12 points  I also got 2 points for engaging with other people. It was a paper assessment as I can’t hear well enough on the phone.

8 points is for needing support to understand basic verbal communication.

12 points is saying that even with this support I still can’t understand verbal information but as I don’t have this support in real life it is impossible for me to prove that this theoretical support wouldn’t help.

I think I should have also had points for washing and bathing (awarded 0 points  I think it should have been 2 for not hearing a smoke alarm whilst washing and bathing) and engaging (awarded 2 points I think it should have been 4)..

I appealed mobility and the washing and bathing and engaging at MR ( because I thought the DWP may have reduced the 12 points for communicating back down to 8 at MR) but the response was ‘you already have an enhanced award we can’t award you a higher award’.They didn’t award any points or explain if I was or wasn’t entitled to the points  

If the DWP had awarded me the 2 points for washing and bathing it wouldn’t have mattered if the communication points went down to 8 I would still have had 12 points.

The reason I am asking if I should include the daily living activities despite having an enhanced award at the moment is that if there is a video tribunal hearing it will be in very favourable listening conditions;including no background noise, being able to turn up the volume on my laptop, the speaker looking at me so I can lipread and having an amplified loop system which isn’t visible; will make the tribunal think I can hear a lot better than I actually can in ‘real life’. The loop system is plugged into the headphone socket of the laptop or TV so doesn’t work when having a conversation in real life. I can’t not use it at a video tribunal because I then I can’t understand enough to participate in the tribunal hearing.

On the statement of reasons from my last tribunal there were comments about me not needing to look at the speech to text translator screen very much but there was an amplified loop system in place, the desks had been pushed together to reduce the distance between me and the panel and they were all aware I needed to lipread but the judge seemed to have forgotten all those factors and  I am worried this is going to happen again at a video tribunal.

 If, as a result of their observations, this next tribunal reduce the communication points down to 8 then the disputed DL activities become relevant because without them I can’t retain an enhanced award.

On the other hand I don’t want to look if I am wasting the tribunal’s time disputing points that as it stands at the moment would make no difference to the award level.

 I’ve read that it is the tribunal’s decision whether or not to look at all the activities the DWP have awarded points for.

 How likely is it that they would look at communication if neither party are disputing it?

 Do I mention the disputed daily living activities or not? 

Replies

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,628 Disability Gamechanger
    I’m afraid I’m not going to pull any punches here. 

    There are several threads on what is essentially one issue? Remind me. Did this go to UT and then get referred back to FTT or not or is this now a separate new claim?

    If you already have an enhanced award of daily living then arguing over the precise make up of the points is quite frankly probably the most idiotic thing you could do. Whilst I agree there’s argument for 2 points on bathing the test for PIP does not involve getting the right 12 points. It’s about getting 8 or 12 points. Once that’s done then the matter is over. That has been legally tested. There is clear case law on the point and, if I’ve understood you correctly and you already have 12 points for daily living then you need to drop the matter pronto. 

    As regards video hearings you are in danger, as I’ve posted in other threads, of over-thinking really simple stuff. Firstly, you do not have to agree to a video hearing and secondly, if there are circumstances which may appear to show your communication to be better than it actually is then you just put that in writing prior to the hearing. Not rocket science and nor is it a game. You want a tribunal to know something? Tell them. If you don’t want communication to be an issue then don’t communicate in a way which puts it at issue and don’t ask for it to be at issue. If you don’t raise something then they’ve no obligation or right to look at it but equally they’re not obliged to ignore the bleeding obvious. 

    I have to say that the facts you’ve laid out above make no case for 8 points for verbal communication let alone 12. You cannot be seriously thinking that you’re heading for 12. 4 or 8 is your best bet here and I would leave well alone if you have 8 before you engineer a disaster of your own making. 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 11,201 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi there 

    As you have the enhanced award already I doubt the tribunal will want to look at that element same as DWP said 

    The tribunal dont usually look at taking points away 

    You should get some expert advice from welfare rights 
  • Caz_AlumniCaz_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 626 Pioneering
    Hi @yanni

    How are you doing today?

    Following your query above, I just wanted to check in and see if our other members' posts have helped to answer your questions? Thanks very much to all for providing that additional advice and guidance.

    As it stands, it looks like you might also want to seek some expert advice on this issue as well? In which case, I thought it might be helpful to include some links to other organisations that might be able to provide you with that guidance - for example, advicelocal or Citizens' Advice.

    Hope that's useful to you? And please do also feel free to come back to us if you have any other questions or you would like some further support from the community on this issue.
    Online Community Coordinator (she/her)

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  • yanniyanni Member Posts: 50 Courageous


    Mike 

     I have posted a grand total of 4 posts since 2018  how is this "four or five threads on this one topic".? and how do you know I haven't followed up on the advice given?

    I did follow up on the advice offered when I was considering a UT appeal but I couldn't continue with it for unrelated personal reasons.

    I posted  a question last week asking about mobility which you responded to and which I posted to say thank you it was helpful. 

    The last post you answered yesterday - a Sunday afternoon of a bank holiday weekend. 

    If you had read my post I said that I said the DWP had awarded me 12 points for communicating which was more than I was expecting and I couldn't see how I could justify the 12 points if a tribunal queried it and that I was concerned I would lose my EDL and was asking if it was worth adding 2 DL activities that I had queried at MR. That was all.

    Quite what I have done to warrant  this aggressive post I have no idea.








  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,628 Disability Gamechanger
    edited April 5
    Probably using phrases like “if you had read my post...”.

    I am not in the habit of posting responses to posts I’ve not actually read.  

    Beyond that, my points stage. It’s not clear where you’re at and I’ve nothing further to add.
  • woodbinewoodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 4,514 Disability Gamechanger
    @yanni Mike is a very experienced benefits advisor, and whilst his advice is always down to earth I have never seen a single post from him that has been aggressive.
    "Putting a child into care, isn't caring for a child" (T.Rhattigan)
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