Poverty in the UK.

woodbine

There is a thread about the £20 UC uplift and legacy benefits etc, it went slightly off topic (so it seems) when poverty in general was discussed and it was suggested that if that was to be discussed a new thread might be in order..so here it is.

How would you define poverty? How would you deal with poverty it's causes and effects? Should benefits be set at a level above the poverty line?

The official definition of poverty is a household income below 2/3rds of the national average, to increase benefit levels to around this level would be a massive undertaking, one that would mean substantial  increases in income tax/national insurance/VAT or all three. But surely the affects of poverty would justify such actions? millions of people using foodbanks, fuel poverty the list is long.

Some suggest that keeping the £20 a week uplift in UC and extending it to e.g ESA is the answer, but is £20 a week for a family really the answer to the problem?...I suggest it's not,

MarkM88

woodbine said:

There is a thread about the £20 UC uplift and legacy benefits etc, it went slightly off topic (so it seems) when poverty in general was discussed and it was suggested that if that was to be discussed a new thread might be in order.

Just to point out, the thread in question wasn’t intended as a discussion on UC uplift and transferring this to legacy benefits, it’s was a thread deemed to ask people if they would consider writing to their MP. 

I also stressed that everyone would see that exercise differently and some would agree and disagree with that approach and therefore was their own personal choice if the wrote to their MP or not. 

It was me that reported the off topic content because I could see it was going to go way off how I intended. 

In hindsight I should of requested it be a read only thread and have it closed. 

Therefore I’ll request it is closed now. 

Lisatho11987777

It's not just 20.00 a week it's 80.00 a month and that is a big chunk out of monthly money that 80.00 covers alot in some cases it's covering the monthly gas and electric so they have more for food or clothing or shoes for their children 

My 80.00 a month covers my electric every month and half my gas even though I work aswel that extra 80.00 is a life saver 

Poverty will only get worse and there will be more debt and its not going to help if the uprise is taken away 

calcotti

£20/week os £86.67/month and that is how much UC allowances will reduce by from October.

woodbine

My point is that in 2021 far too many people/families live in the UK in relative poverty, I agree with Mike that UBI will eventually be the only solution @MarkN88 I wasn't having a go.

MarkM88

woodbine said:

@MarkN88 I wasn't having a go.

Don’t worry, I knew you weren’t, I just thought I’d explain a bit more as to why I started the thread. 

66Mustang

My opinion on this probably isn’t the most popular and I hope no one takes offence because I’m not trying to belittle the problem, but I figured we are all entitled to an opinion.

I would suggest some kind of education is needed rather than (or perhaps in addition to?) spending money on the problem.

A lot of people don’t realise how cheap you can eat well and they instead spend their money on things like junk food, frozen food, takeaways etc. then wonder why they’ve run out of money half way through the month.

In addition, when I was at school, I remember quite well how several of the kids I knew who lived in poverty also had the latest luxuries like games consoles and big TVs in their houses. My family couldn’t afford what these people had, because we spent our money on necessities like food and bills. People need to be taught that you pay the bills and feed yourself first - the latest smart phone or piece of designer clothing is a bonus that you buy after everything else has been paid for, IF there is anything left.

Please don’t think I’m accusing everyone in poverty of not being thrifty - I’m sure there are some who are very good with their money and yet still live in poverty - but I’m just suggesting maybe education would help some people? Even if it helped 1 in 100 people it would surely have been worth doing.

vikingqueen

     I agree @66Mustang, money management is needed to help some people. My step daughter is a prime example, 24 and never worked then borrowing from her grandma every 2 weeks for electric/gas money (or so she tells her) and then rocking up with yet another tattoo, fancy nails or a new hair do. It irritates me as I can't afford these things despite working all my life. 

woodbine

@66Mustang you make a good point, teaching kids in their final year of secondary school about money and how to manage it well is something sadly lacking in their education.
I'll give you an example, our daughter who is intelligent, around 10 years ago I sent her a cheque she was on the phone asking "dad what do I do with this?"

But something is wrong somewhere when someone on a reasonable wage is having that topped up with UC because of high housing cost, I always thought that introducing a national minimum wage was a good move, but in too many cases it has become the normal not the minimum wage.

But it still concerns me that in 2021 we have families that struggle to feed themselves and their families something as they say "must be done"

vikingqueen

       You have got it there @woodbine..high rents, these greedy landlords need stopping. What happened to the fair rents, when I rented many years ago from a housing association they could only raise the rent by a minimal amount every 2 years, it was the law before1989. Charging ridiculous amounts a month is just pure greed. Sort the rents and people would be able to manage a lot better.

woodbine

@vikingqueen good point, I think most social housing rents are reasonably fair, but private rents have just followed LHA  which differs from area to area and has like NMW has become the norm not the exception.

Lisatho11987777

Some private landlords are charging over a thousand pound a month I consider my rent to be high mine is 550.00 compared to social housing that on average for a three bed is 400.00 with two gardens depending on area 

Lisatho11987777

@66Mustang I get where your comeing from and I expect that happens but most of the time it's bills going on rented property on someone who works full time and earns an average of 1500.00 a month  I will go in the middle and not exact figures on a monthly basis and only on wages 

Rent 450.00
Council tax 110
Car insurance  100.00 
Water rates  100.00
Phone bill 35.00 
Gas 50.00
Electric 50.00
Food 100.00 
Clothing 50.00 
Personal items such as deodorant shower gel etc washing powder 60.00 
That is 1,005 pound  bills could be higher or lower there could be broad band bills or other bills I havent mentioned 

But if your on universal credit or benefits going on a single person benefit  without pip or dla with the uprise is around not exact figures 400.00 a month 

Out of that bills and food have to be paid people still need cloths still have to pay gas and electric still need personal items yes their rent and council tax is paid but still have to pay water  most people have phones so need to keep thst going 

Take the 80.00 uprise off that thats 320.00 as a single person a month 
 Thats people who don't get pip dla limited capability for work 

So when the uprise comes off for a single person liveing alone will barely manage 

As a disabled person on average single person universal credit  652.00 not exact figures with the limited capability 

As a single disabled person on full benefits on average not exact figures with full pip on average 1,0052.00 

There are different levels of poverty and people get different money some barely get by I have only done average figures for a single person not exact figures to show the different levels bills can be higher or lower people my spend more or less money on things 

Bills go up but our money dosnt go up enough to cover that 

MarkM88

@lisathomas50 how are your water rates so high? 

woodbine

MarkN88 said:

@lisathomas50 how are your water rates so high? 

Good question Mark, more like £40 a month for most?

vikingqueen

    My water rates are only £25 a month.

calcotti

woodbine said: Good question Mark, more like £40 a month for most?

They vary widely - we shouldn't generalise.

MarkM88

calcotti said:

woodbine said: Good question Mark, more like £40 a month for most?

They vary widely - we shouldn't generalise.

That’s true as well. I just don’t think I’ve e seen such a high monthly bill for water rates which I think is why I questioned it. 

calcotti

MarkN88 said:

calcotti said:

woodbine said: Good question Mark, more like £40 a month for most?

They vary widely - we shouldn't generalise.

That’s true as well. I just don’t think I’ve e seen such a high monthly bill for water rates which I think is why I questioned it. 

I do agree £100 looks high for a single person household (assuming it is being paid over 10 months).

vikingqueen

      I'm not sure your water rates are paid over 10 months, I've always paid mine by direct debit over 12

calcotti

vikingqueen said:

      I'm not sure your water rates are paid over 10 months, I've always paid mine by direct debit over 12

Mine are paid over 10. Again it varies. £100/month looks even higher if paid over 12 months.