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Petrol rationing

woodbine
woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
The EG group which operates 400 forecourts has announced a £30 limit on customers excluding emergency service workers, as motorist start to panic buy fuel ,due to a small number of forecourts running out due to lack of delivery drivers.

It should be noted that there is no shortage of petrol or diesel.

The govt. is considering issuing visas to HGV drivers from outside the UK and or sending in the army to drive fuel tankers.
I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.

Comments

  • Teddybear12
    Teddybear12 Member Posts: 765 Pioneering
    Something has to be done people are panic buying. 
  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,585 Disability Gamechanger
    No panic buying here, in fact I went out for a drive yesterday just for fun.

    The queues for the petrol stations that I went past were long. One was backing up almost onto a dual carriageway - a bit dangerous.

    If people didn’t panic buy there wouldn’t be an issue!
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,078

    Scope community team

    The £30 cap might be a good idea in principal, but when you put an artificial limit on something, you're perpetuating the notion of scarcity which tends to encourage panic-buying anyway.
    I'm down to well under quarter of a tank (poor planning on my part!) but don't have the time, nor inclination to queue halfway around town, so the kids might not be going to school next week!

    Maybe we'll get lucky and find 100,000 new HGV drivers by the start of October! :wink: 
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  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    If you think about it all these people who have filled their tanks in the last couple of days won't need petrol for a week maybe two so demand will slow down soon.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    I went to see a friend this afternoon and although i do have just over half a tank of diesel i thought i'd call into Asda just to fill the tank up... my idea soon went out the window when i realised it was closed because they'd completely sold out of all fuel. I did drive past a few petrol stations with people queuing but i'm not going to be joining them anytime soon. Ridiculous!
  • Bumbles
    Bumbles Member Posts: 28 Connected
    came back home from visiting our son late last night - (well 1 am this morning) the garages that were open had hardly any one filling up
  • snailpace
    snailpace Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    @woodbine I don’t personally drive, but I have heard about how people have started panic buying, which takes me right back to the beginning with groceries. There is no need to panic buy, I’ve seen my mum today and she said there are queues outside the 3 petrol stations she passed on her way to mine. People should think about each other and pull together.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    The lest pull together ship sailed at the end of the first lockdown, never to sail again probably.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    Maybe they should get people off the dole put them through the test and get people employed  boris cant back track and now say they can use temporary EU drivers he wanted out  deal with it boris

    My petrol station ran dry in 8 hrs absolute  mayhem  and ridiculous people swearing at us whilst we were trying to work and deal with cars trying to get on the petrol station 

    Tomorrow we have a delivery and it will happen again but because loads of petrol stations need delivery's  it will cause more problems trying to get round them all so it will take a whilst now to get it sorted 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    Unfortunately @lisathomas50 literacy levels in the UK are so poor now that you’d do well to find many benefit claimants in a position to do the written element of any tests.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    Next door neighbour tried Sainsbury's, tesco and an esso station this morning, non of them had and petrol, a situation caused by panic buying.
    The government are now going to issue temp.visas to 5,000 drivers that will expire on Christmas eve, a drop in the ocean when they tell us we are short of 100,000 HGV divers.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    Thats an assumption  Mike and discriminating  and those people most of them drive cars alot of people had jobs and list them due to brexit and corona virus people aren't qualified here because the government used drivers frim abroad  now the prime minister is back tracking and wants to use EU drivers  

    The government need to spend money on training people so the UK has qualified workers ithe UK wanted out of the EU now they have to sort it out 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 27
    Unfortunately @lisathomas50 literacy levels in the UK are so poor now that you’d do well to find many benefit claimants in a position to do the written element of any tests.
    I think thats more than a little harsh and certainly uncalled for. 99% of people in the UK can read and write.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • MaisieBoohoo
    MaisieBoohoo Member Posts: 32 Connected
    @lisathomas50 I think though if all the unemploymed people had wanted this job, they would have been pro actively doing something about it now. Same as with fruit pickers/ meat processors etc. Certain jobs are not popular and frankly pretty rotten jobs, so you ca see why. Government definitely do not want to bring foreign drivers in, they have no choice, but listening on LBC this am, they really don’t want to come, so no need to worry. However we will see more and more shortages 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    @MaisieBoohoo can't keep back tracking and asking EU drivers to help we are out the EU its only a temporary measure and those that  will  come and drive will charge a higher price the UK wanted out they have to get people qualified in the UK  

    The government need to pull their finger out and train people to drive tankers and hgv lorries and to do everything else the UK relied on the EU for 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 10,531 Disability Gamechanger
  • lillybelle
    lillybelle Member Posts: 564 Pioneering
    My husband drives a hgv lorry.
    although retail not food or petrol.
    however if they paid them a decent wage for the driving they do. Some 13hrs a day to get to a destination before a certain time then there wouldn’t be a shortage.
    the same applies to hospital staff. Pay a decent wage so that they don’t need to go onto benefits then more youngsters would be willing to be trained instead of getting into debt on some stupid fairytale course at universities 
    Also HGV lorries do need to be filled up with petrol twice a day 
    To actually get where they need to be. So if people would stop and think before they panic  buy their petrol- if HGV wagons can’t get petrol then the shops don’t get their products
    hence shortage at chrstmas
  • lillybelle
    lillybelle Member Posts: 564 Pioneering
    Maybe they should get people off the dole put them through the test and get people employed  boris cant back track and now say they can use temporary EU drivers he wanted out  deal with it boris

    My petrol station ran dry in 8 hrs absolute  mayhem  and ridiculous people swearing at us whilst we were trying to work and deal with cars trying to get on the petrol station 

    Tomorrow we have a delivery and it will happen again but because loads of petrol stations need delivery's  it will cause more problems trying to get round them all so it will take a whilst now to get it sorted 

  • lillybelle
    lillybelle Member Posts: 564 Pioneering

    Do you know what is involved in training to drive an oil tanker?
    you can’t just get a licence.
    it takes numerous tests & examinations. Plus the licences to drive  class 2 and 1 HGV lorries.
    so to say that people need to come off the dole to drive them is utterly ridiculous.
    oil tankers are very VERY high risk vehicles 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    @lisathomas50 I think though if all the unemploymed people had wanted this job, they would have been pro actively doing something about it now. Same as with fruit pickers/ meat processors etc. Certain jobs are not popular and frankly pretty rotten jobs, so you ca see why. Government definitely do not want to bring foreign drivers in, they have no choice, but listening on LBC this am, they really don’t want to come, so no need to worry. However we will see more and more shortages 
    some of these jobs are short term and if our unemployed signed off UC they would be scared that they would have to go through re-applying and a 5 week wait, make that obviously more simple and I think many would take up these jobs.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,274 Disability Gamechanger
    Those people on the dole ? Is that not a very old term for unemployed 

    Some are not unemployed through any fault of their own and would no doubt be grateful of a driving job 

    How are they supposed to come up with the cost of training to become a hgv or tanker driver 
    Here to help with my experience in hunan resources and employment rights 
  • lillybelle
    lillybelle Member Posts: 564 Pioneering
    Btw £1000 to £1500 for training for 7.5 ton
    them more for class 2 and another £1-2000 for class 1
  • lillybelle
    lillybelle Member Posts: 564 Pioneering
    Lots of experience needed as well before companies will employ
  • MaisieBoohoo
    MaisieBoohoo Member Posts: 32 Connected
    @lisathomas50
    i think you think there are a wedge of EU drivers waiting to come back here to work, and frankly they can pick and choose work in EU wit a lot less hassle than coming here for 3 months.
    as people have said, how are the out of work people who can work…health wise, going to fund the cost of training…
    so maybe some will find a way, but I can’t see a ton of young people wanting to be away for nights on end, sleeping in cab beside the road and struggling to find toilets and showering.
    I can safely say we will never fill 100,000 vacancies like this, the same for chicken pluckers, and flower or fruit pickers. No reason why these jobs have not been taken by UK citizens…..hence we need to go begging to EU for them too
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    On the news earlier 125,000 drivers short in Poland and lots of other EU countries are sort by 75-100,000 so I cant see any great rush of drivers wanting to cross the channel for 3 months work.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 3,006 Disability Gamechanger
    …..hence we need to go begging to EU for them too
    .. or other parts of the world.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    Sandy_123 said:
    4000 training places will be offered and training will take around 12 weeks, so not much help in the run up to Christmas, the government is running around like headless turkeys (you remember turkeys we used to eat them at Christmas?)
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 1,981 Pioneering
    edited September 27
    @woodbine it's a very good start isn't it. At least it's not just being ignored. 
    As for turkeys there are lots already in the supermarkets.  Failing that plenty chickens, lamb, pork, etc. Personally I don't mind eating vindaloo as long as family is sat behind a plate.
  • vikingqueen
    vikingqueen Member Posts: 548 Pioneering
             You can teach someone how to pass a HGV test, it doesn't make them a haulage driver, that comes with experience.
  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 1,981 Pioneering
    @vikingqueen that's the same with any job, everyone has to start somewhere, even the experienced people in any profession started with none.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    Thats an assumption  Mike and discriminating 
    No assumption at all. I find it utterly bizarre that you think I post anything on here without a solid evidence base. Like, when? Ever?  There are nearly 10 million functionally illiterate adults in the UK. How many links would you like me to post about how digital UC claims are mostly supported by friends and family rather than claimants? 

    How much overwhelming evidence that the majority of those adults are in low paid jobs and on benefits? Feel free to refute my outrageous “assumptions”. I look forward to reading those reports and links you’ve got lined up. 

    Two small points to finish. 

    1 - the average reading age in several areas of Greater Manchester is 11. In one area it is less. 

    2 - government documents no longer report their compliance with the plain English campaign. Why is that? Could it be that guidance suggests all documents should be written so that they could be understood by 9 year old? Having seen that guidance for several key roles I’m confident there was no assumption at all in my original statement e.g. that’s exactly the instruction to the various Ombudsman offices. Write tour decisions so they could be understood by a 9 year old. The same principle underpins the whole of gov.uk.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 10,531 Disability Gamechanger
    edited September 28
    Gave a couple of links above Mike, but presumably no-one bothered to read them. They state,
    'People with low literacy skills may not be able to read a book or newspaper, understand road signs or price labels, make sense of a bus or train timetable, fill out a form, read instructions on medicines or use the internet.'

    'In England, adult literacy is often referred to in terms of ‘levels’ – for example, a 2011 government survey of adult literacy skills found that 14.9% (or 1 in 7) of adults in England have literacy levels at or below Entry Level 3, which is equivalent to the literacy skills expected of a nine to 11-year-old.

    More recently, in 2015, the OECD conducted its Survey of Adult Skills, known as PIAAC (Programme for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies). This survey found that 16.4% (or 1 in 6) of adults in England, and 17.9% (or 1 in 5) adults in Northern Ireland, have literacy levels at or below Level 1, which is considered to be 'very poor literacy skills.'

  • MaisieBoohoo
    MaisieBoohoo Member Posts: 32 Connected
    @calcotti yes totally but realistically distance plays a large part…I can’t see folks coming from India or Australia for 3 months work..namely because most HG drivers are in jobs, so why give up fot 3 months work and go back to no job?
    I also heard o. Radio that people remembered Manston airfield last Xmas and he said, all the “ good jobs are filled here” so you would come over and get the jobs people are not keen to do….
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 3,006 Disability Gamechanger
    @calcotti yes totally but realistically distance plays a large part…I can’t see folks coming from India or Australia for 3 months work..
    My comment wasn’t intended to refer to 3 month short term visas - I frankly can't see the attraction of those to people from Europe either. My comment was aimed at addressing longer term labour market issues.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    @lillybelle yes I know but the government are going to help get people qualified  to drive tankers and hgv and some company's are giving incentives  to try and attract people 

    So far 5 people in my area have signed up yo do the qualifications do that they can get permanent jobs 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    @janer1967 the government are putting money into it to get people qualified five people here start their training here next week people are comeing forward wanting to train 

    The EU drivers will only be a temporary measure until people in UK are trained 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    @vikingqueen thsts why they need to teach to get the experience otherwise this will just carry on they have not many trained drivers in the UK most of the drivers were in the EU every one starts from scratch and has to qualify even drs nurses and every one else 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    You misunderstand you said most people on benefits are illiterate  I know three hgv drivers who aren't very good at reading and writing and have been driving lorrys for ten years 

    To be fair it's no point saying anything its discrimination 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    I know plenty of people who drive or ride motorbikes and drive  tankers that aren't good at reading and writing and still got jobs same as mechanics and delivery drivers I didnt say there weren't any your makeing out that everyone on universal credit can't read or write properly and saying they couldn't do the job

    We have had people in parliament who can't read and write properly  our tanker driver is foreign he can't read or write in English but can still do his job 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    Good job you and Mike don't employ these type of people then and there there are empowers out there that give people a chance lots of people with learning disabilities work lady in Swansea who is down syndrome works in a bank been there 10 years lovely lady 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    @lillybelle thank goodness then that others don't think its so ridiculous  people on universal credit are jumping at the chance here in wales and where I live 5 people including two women have already signed up for the training 

    If the UK doesn't want to keep going cap in hand to the EU  then people in the UK need to start training to be qualified for the jobs and build back the UK  young people should work and not think everything is paid for by someone else my grandson is 18 with learning disabilities and has bagged himself an amazing job that pays 1800 after tax and national insurance 

    The UK people need to pull their finger out stop complaing about everything and do something about it 

    Yes there are people who truly can't work I have a disability and I work and I study psychology with counselling and I look after my mum who has dementia  and I am 58 and worked since the age of 16 and had children 

    All my eldest children work and my grand children that are around the same age 18 to 22  I have 12 grandchildren all work two are hgv lorry drivers started recently as not long passed their test  one of my daughters drives for Warburton bread  delivery's they are short of 160 drivers 

    You are right about EU drivers they won't want to come  here for 3months  and I don't blame them 

    I can only drive up to 19 foot which is the length of my campervan  I would love to drive the lorries and tankers and I would of been one of the first to sign up to do the training and the test 
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,078

    Scope community team

    From the reports that we've received around this discussion thread, I think there may have been a bit of a misunderstanding.

    I don't think anyone is saying that everyone on benefits is illiterate, or can't work, but instead that we (in the UK) do have poor rates of literacy and there is a link between literacy and barriers to employment. 

    Driving a HGV and a petrol tanker isn't the same as driving a car or a motorbike. Training a new driver is a long and protracted process with a number of tests involved that would not necessarily be accessible to everyone.

    Going back to the original topic, the queues and the panic buying only seem to be getting worse in my area. My neighbour had to abandon her car while queuing outside Tesco yesterday! Fingers crossed things start settling down soon.
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  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    So, people arguing about literacy levels who didn’t understand the point being made. Er…
  • 66Mustang
    66Mustang Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,585 Disability Gamechanger
    Does anyone know if petrol stations sell toilet roll? (I’ve never actually been in one, always use pay at pump.)

    They could make a killing selling to the panic buyers when they go in to pay for their fuel :D 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    So, people arguing about literacy levels who didn’t understand the point being made. Er…
    An argument it seems that you started Mike ??
    However it seems this morning that petrol shortages are getting worse, but it should be remembered there is No shortage of fuel only delivery drivers.
    I like some of you lived through the early 70's when there was a shortage of petrol, wasn't much fun.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,274 Disability Gamechanger
    We drove a long way yesterday and lots of motorway services were out of fuel but at least overhead signs were informing drivers of the approaching services supply or if no fuel 
    Here to help with my experience in hunan resources and employment rights 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    woodbine said:
    So, people arguing about literacy levels who didn’t understand the point being made. Er…
    An argument it seems that you started Mike ??

    And your point is? 

    Who cares who started what. The point stands. Literacy is a huge obstacle to a simplistic idea like "getting people off the dole". The responses to that assertion, which really shouldn't have needed to be justified at all given @chiarieds earlier post, which pretty much contained all the links I would have references, suggested my assertion was based on assumptions. 

    That that was wrong was one thing. That the poster completely misunderstood the point being made rather reinforces both posters observations re: literacy. 

    Love that the military are on standby to "resolve" this. Struggling to remember the last thing our military resolved.
     
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,285 Disability Gamechanger
    I refuse to be drawn into an argument with you Mike, you have your opinion I have mine.

    The military have been used recently in England and Scotland to help out the ambulance service, and did it escape your notice that over 1000 helped with the Kabul evacuation? many of them having just returned from Afghan went straight back !
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Posts: 5,996

    Scope community team

    Hi everyone,

    This is just a reminder to keep all comments civil. It's okay to disagree and have a debate, but we expect all comments to remain respectful in tone. As stated in our house rules
    Please make sure your messages respect others’ views and suggestions, even if you do not agree with them.
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  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Posts: 5,996

    Scope community team

    Does anyone know if petrol stations sell toilet roll? 

    :D@66Mustang

    We drove a long way yesterday and lots of motorway services were out of fuel but at least overhead signs were informing drivers of the approaching services supply or if no fuel 

    That's good @janer1967. I'm sure some people still would have queued though, either through desperation or just in case! I know some people who've walked to their local petrol station to ask if they have fuel in, to save them the petrol it'd take to get there. 

    I'm often glad I don't have a car!

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  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,274 Disability Gamechanger
    @Tori_Scope I agree there bet those with electric cars are feeling pretty pleased right now 
    Here to help with my experience in hunan resources and employment rights 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    @Adrian_Scope I agree to a certain level that if you had severe reading difficulty and I am aware that the test is not the same as a car or motorbike  I am trying to find the information about the three Eddie Stobbart drivers that  thought the job was out of reach because they couldn't read a write properly and they passed their test 



  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    I did understand the argument being made  I have law degrees I come on here I fill in forms and all sorts of things like that 

    Ask me to read a bus time table or a train time table  or read a map I got no chance but I can access the information on my phone or a computer or follow a sat nav 

    It was the reference to people unemployed on benefits are basically illiterate  that I found not very nice 

    If everyone was tested on here for literacy skills we wouldn't score perfect 
  • lisathomas50
    lisathomas50 Posts: 4,592 Disability Gamechanger
    @66Mustang yes petrol stations thst have a shop sell toilet papper lol

    @woodbine my petrol station has ran out again its getting stupid so far in wales 38 people have applied to do the training  and test  some havent worked for a long time  
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,781 Disability Gamechanger
    I got fuel this morning with no problems, The petrol station was just round the corner from where i live and the person behind the counter told me they had a delivery this morning and are expecting another tomorrow.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    woodbine said:
    I refuse to be drawn into an argument with you Mike, you have your opinion I have mine.

    The military have been used recently in England and Scotland to help out the ambulance service, and did it escape your notice that over 1000 helped with the Kabul evacuation? many of them having just returned from Afghan went straight back !
    And nor am I asking for one. However, if you're going to make a direct statement like

    woodbine said:
    An argument it seems that you started Mike ??
    I'd say it was you looking to start one. It was a wholly unnecessary comment which added nothing and could arguably be called out re: commenting on the poster not the post @woodbine, which is of course a breach of the terms of this site. Something to bear in mind. 

    No it didn't escape my notice re: Kabul but then that's not really "resolving" anything. It's more going back to rescue a dire situation caused by 20 years of utterly pointless conflict which, weirdly enough, also didn't resolve anything. I have nothing against the armed forces but the language around them "resolving" things is laughable really. 

    It was the reference to people unemployed on benefits are basically illiterate  that I found not very nice 
    Unfortunately Lisa that is a comment which no-one actually made. 
  • nannymaroon
    nannymaroon Member Posts: 234 Courageous
    edited September 28
    I wish people would just calm down. My petrol gauge is on the red line. I only use £15  of petrol pw. I have been unable to go to a medical appointment today because I could not get any petrol. 37 cars were lined up outside the station all down the road and around the corner.

     Please don't panic buy because that will cause an actual shortage.
    Am I alone in finding all this very embarrassing?
    i wonder if they are laughing about in in the EU.
  • snailpace
    snailpace Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    @nannymaroon, Hi, I don’t drive, but I agree all this is very embarrassing and so no you are not alone. My mum has had to ring 999 for her husband and thankfully one came within 15 minutes. If there had of been any delay due to petrol shortage, I would of felt different.
  • Dragonslayer
    Dragonslayer Community Co-Production Group Posts: 1,539 Pioneering
    I have filled my car twice now in the last few weeks with no trouble at all.
    First time there was one car in front of me, yesterday none at all. I live in the north of the country and believe all the trouble is down south, especially London and gets into the news because of that.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,476 Disability Gamechanger
    The "trouble" is largely in urban areas and is hugely geographically variable. Generalisations simply don't apply. 

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