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mikehughescq
mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,797 Disability Gamechanger
edited October 24 in Coffee lounge
I’ll be damned if I can understand why on Scope bowed to a request to close the original thread about Facebook - https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/452860#Comment_452860 - which, somewhat obviously and provocatively, revealed unsurprisingly that more people feel negatively about it than positively and, once again, did not breach the terms of the site. The general disinterest in the new thread - https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/453623#Comment_453623  (essentially a brief conversation between people within Scope) then generated suggests similar. 

Anyway, it was suggested that if anyone did want to continue that original discussion they should start their own thread so here we are. I’m not expecting some massive discussion as there’s likely a limited amount be said as it’s now irrefutably the case that Facebook does net harm and the best of what it does can largely be found elsewhere. However, I was reading an interesting link and thought it would be useful to post so here we go.

https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-ford-fall-from-grace/ Regulation of Facebook is coming whether we like it or not. Also a neat little article explaining why social media is so pernicious. https://www.newyorker.com/news/essay/on-the-internet-were-always-famous
PS: what a joy it is to discover that the revised site also refuses to let me post links as phrases. I would have liked https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/452860#Comment_452860 to be a link behind the words “thread about Facebook” for accessibility reasons but it’s yet another bit of functionality which no longer works on iOS devices.

Comments

  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 2,191 Pioneering
    Facebook has its good points and bad points, for example on mine I have old work colleagues and family, who I wouldn't get to liase without it as much.   Kind of keeping in touch. 
    Then the local selling sites and what's happening in your area groups. 
    The bad for me are strangers that can sit and snoop, mine has the highest security setting I can have on there. Always being mindful of fake scam posts, like, share and comment and you could win 500 shopping voucher. Never tagging locations your at, or saying if your away from home. Being self aware.
    That I think goes with every platform. 
    It doesn't matter how careful you are if someone wants to find you and your story they will. 
    Im not mentioning names, but I saw someone on this site tell a person how they knew everything about them. Which I presume they took that time to search and find it. Now that is danger to me, the type of person to be wary of. Or shall I say protect your self from.
     
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,632 Disability Gamechanger
    Mike surely people who create threads have the right to ask for them to be closed if there's a good reason?
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • Tori_Scope
    Tori_Scope Posts: 6,610

    Scope community team

    I just wanted to point out that an OP can request for their own thread to be closed at any time. There doesn't have to be a rule breakage. 

    I enjoyed watching the documentary 'The Great Hack', which talks about the Cambridge Analytica data scandal. I'd recommend giving it a watch if you want to find out a little more about that. I've also heard that 'The Social Dilemma' is a good watch, but I haven't seen it yet.

    P.S. thanks for flagging up the iOS issue mikehughescq. It's working fine for me, but I don't have a device that uses iOS to do a test. I can see you've added it to the main thread, so we'll add it to the log.
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  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,797 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 24
    woodbine said:
    Mike surely people who create threads have the right to ask for them to be closed if there's a good reason?
    Make your mind up. Are you away; at home; taking another imaginary 12 hour break; ignoring me or completely unaware as to how you’re presenting at present?

    I would love to hear the “good reason” for closure. As best I can tell it amounts to “I started yet another thread which was bound to produce a contentious outcome and then got upset when it did”. Arguing that it went off topic would be somewhat futile as the other attempt at the same thread shows that it was always going to do so as there’s little interest in the subject. 

    Perhaps I should complain and ask for this to be closed as you went off topic  :)

    Anyway, back to my book. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 24,712 Disability Gamechanger
    Sandy_123 said:

    Im not mentioning names, but I saw someone on this site tell a person how they knew everything about them. Which I presume they took that time to search and find it. Now that is danger to me, the type of person to be wary of. Or shall I say protect your self from.
     
    Not necessarily. I've seen members here give information in drips and drabs over various threads, which would mean over a period of time you would know a lot of things about a person.
  • AlisonNetty
    AlisonNetty Member Posts: 179 Pioneering
    Facebook can be a good place to be but I do wish everyone practices ' being kind to one another'..... but they dont.. there are some really mean people on Facebook..  .
  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 2,191 Pioneering
    @poppy123456 I wish I could remember such details about what everyone puts. It goes in 1 ear out the other. You would seriously have to be keeping a record to remember all that
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 24,712 Disability Gamechanger
    Sandy_123 said:
    @poppy123456 I wish I could remember such details about what everyone puts. It goes in 1 ear out the other. You would seriously have to be keeping a record to remember all that

    I certainly don't keep records of anyone. I couldn't care less what people do with their private lives. I was just pointing out that you don't need to search anything about anyone when some people have no issues with telling their life stories.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,797 Disability Gamechanger
    Sandy_123 said:

    Im not mentioning names, but I saw someone on this site tell a person how they knew everything about them. Which I presume they took that time to search and find it. Now that is danger to me, the type of person to be wary of. Or shall I say protect your self from.
    Not necessarily. I've seen members here give information in drips and drabs over various threads, which would mean over a period of time you would know a lot of things about a person.
    Facebook security settings are largely worthless. It’s been shown repeatedly that they claim to offer things they simply don’t deliver and the frequent changes made it ever more likely that people will fail to check in and update them with every change. 

    It is unbelievably easy, and quite an eye opener, to do a quick search for any user on any site; have a quick glance at their posts and be astonished/horrified at how much people give away. Not sure why you’d not name names @Sandy_123. It’s again a really quick search to see who you’re talking about. Personally I’d be more concerned about the person currently posting most of their life on here than the person who highlights it. 
  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 2,191 Pioneering
    Yeah there is that too at posting too much, letting ones guard down. On Facebook now it's a happy birthday etc or I might comment on news article which is rare. On here I just try to be factual. Join in with light banter
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 11,025 Disability Gamechanger
    Completely agree with Poppy here - no ulterior motives involved whatsoever, I'm sure. I certainly don't remember everything, but I have a fairly good memory, & can recall the specific details a member has given away just the same as the member Sandy has advised caution about. Why? They were only trying to be helpful.
    I'll not mention specific data collection sites which can be used, but I very, very much doubt that they were in this instance.
    I read this article recently; not new news, but an update: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-google-subsea-cables     & I quote,
    'Facebook especially frames part of its effort as being about improving internet access across the world – while admitting some advantage to itself through user growth if this succeeds. Google mostly highlights how greater connectivity will boost local economic prosperity....'    Hmmm.
    Hope that's not off topic, Mike, & the articles you linked to were 'interesting' reading, thank you. I do wonder if people take the time to read them.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,797 Disability Gamechanger
    The internet world can have my name. They can broadly locate me. Although I try to never use location services on anything it’s easy enough to figure out in most cases. You can even have my 2 main health conditions. Beyond that, next to nothing. You’ll have a hard time finding; frauding or socially engineering me. 

    There are people on here I’ve never met and yet I can tell you their height; the date of birth of their wife; the number and gender of children or grandchildren; the devices they use to browse the net and the company put the SIM card in their phone; how many medications they take; their benefit and employment history and much much more. It’s easy and terrifying. You have to wonder if the people they’re related to are aware of that and how they might feel about it.
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,632 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm afraid if I read every link on scope I would have little time to do anything else.

    But I refer back to something I have said before, you can't uninvent the wheel, social media plays an important part in peoples lives especially younger people who use it to organise their lives and social life, at the end of the day almost 3 billion current users worldwide can't all be wrong, and it can't all be bad.
    I don't give out much personal information anywhere on the internet and if anyone has guessed x y or z about me it's only because I have taken  decision to allow them that information.

    I always try and see the best in people and also the best in new technology rather than looking for the negatives as some people seem to want to do.
    I am a person with epilepsy not an epileptic, my illness doesn't define me.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,797 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 24
    I’m about to take a break from this site for various reasons but I take offence at your recent posts @woodbine. I am aware you asked not to be tagged. I now see no reason to respect that given the lack of respect you are now being so blatant and direct about. 

    1 - you start a thread about Facebook. When it goes off topic because there’s little interest you ask for it to be closed down. There is negligible interest in the on topic subject. You start another thread about the same thing. It’s essentially a brief conversation between you and the mods. There is once again negligible interest. Now, with neither self awareness nor any sense of irony, here you are on a Facebook thread and you manage to post multiple straw man responses and try to make it passively aggressive personal. I’ll deal with that directly in a moment. 

    2 - having closed down a thread which may have gone off topic but which was civil and ongoing you then start a thread about how to block a user. You’re a member of the community co-production group. You have direct contact details for several Scope staff but you choose to start a public thread about how to block a user. If it weren’t an abuse of the term I’d call that performative, unnecessary, passive aggressive and a lot more to boot. The user you blocked was me. The person you were talking about was me and for the second time in recent weeks, the first being in relation to @onebigvoice, astonishingly Scope allow a thread about an individual poster to stand. I have never seen such a thing once on any other forum. Literally never. It is disgraceful. 

    3 - there are very few links posted on this forum @woodbine. If you read all of them you would still have lost barely 30 minutes of your life. You appear to have time to post on the forum but seem quite proud of not reading those links when they do appear. Is that something to be proud of or is it suggesting that other people who wish to read stuff which challenges their world view or helps them learn something new have too much time on their hands? Sounds like further passive aggressive mud slinging to me. Now let’s deal with your actual response. 

    4 - Essentialy you use straw man arguments. Almost credible responses to points which weren’t made in the first place. 
    • you indeed cannot uninvent the wheel but then that argument has not been made here. However, as the third link of my original post pointed out, you can regulate it. It takes time. It is actively resisted but, as with Ford and motor vehicles, it will happen and it is desperately needed. 
    • some social media is dominated by young people. Facebook is not one of them. The biggest single user group is 25 to 34 year olds. Younger than me but not the 13 to 17 year olds who dominate TikTok for example. The largest single group of people leaving Facebook or with inactive accounts are people of working age. The growth group is those people over pensionable age who now outnumber 13 to 17 year olds. Here’s another link for you to not read. It supplies about 50% of the data I have just quoted. https://www.statista.com/statistics/376128/facebook-global-user-age-distribution/
    • Social media is not used to organise lives or social lives. That is especially true of Facebook. It’s three main uses are to stay in contact with people across continents; to share photos and video and news. For someone who wants to talk about Facebook you don’t seem to have grasped the most basic facts about it and don’t appear to wish to read about them either. 
    • 3 billion issues worldwide have not been referenced at all in this thread. No-one has suggested they’re “all wrong” in any way. Again, a straw man response. Similarly, no-one has suggested it is “all bad”. All technology, bar facial recognition has positive use cases. That does not mean it’s safe, secure or a force for good. 
    • You appear to be oblivious to the sheer volume of information you give out on the internet especially over the past 12 months. On this site you currently post more personal information than any other user user I can think of. In the same breath you disbelieve that information can be used to locate or target you. Any user of this site could tell you which devices you use to view; your browser and search engine and your mobile provider etc. in a matter of minutes. That is likely less than 1% of what you have revealed here. 
    5 - your last paragraph is clearly not about you. It is another performative personal attack. The implication is that others i.e. me, make an active choice to not see the best in people or technology. There is of course a world of difference between choosing to be positive about things and choosing to be ignorant about their negative effects. I’ve been using technology since I learned to programme on a BBC Micro in the 1980s. I use technology for work; pleasure; music production and as I recently posted I also have IT qualifications to the extent I’m a Microsoft Certified Professional. I am the last to somehow always believe the negative over the positive when it comes to IT. Indeed if you work in IT and refuse to address negative issues your career will be over before it’s begun. Are people who build networks negative because they try to secure them against attack? Are people who produce antivirus software choosing to be negative? Is it impossible to simultaneously use social media and recognise the pernicious and unsafe nature of it and want others to take steps to mitigate that? 

    Unlike yourself I won’t be asking for this to be closed down because it’s wandered from its original intent. I made the first post but it’s not my thread. It goes where it will. Feel free to take it as far away from the original post as you wish. However, if you’re going to respond directly to a post then kindly don’t pretend you’re not being personally insulting and kindly don’t use straw man arguments. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 11,025 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 25
    Saddened to see you can't take sometimes 3 minutes to read a link (some may take 2-3 times longer however). Then I would hope a person such as yourself would search to verify if such information was actually correct, & then you might have an informed viewpoint; does that not matter?
    There's no negativity here, & I also always see the best in people, but difficult to comment further when someone says, 'I don't see, or read about it, ergo it doesn't happen/exist.'
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,174

    Scope community team

    I've taken the decision to close this discussion. It has sadly descended into a series of personal remarks and bickering.
    I feel it is in everyone's interests that we close this discussion in order to prevent arguments from escalating further. Any discussions that take a similar turn will be dealt with in a similar fashion.


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