Changes to human rights

Biblioklept

Is anyone else worried about the changes to our human rights in the UK? I've been too unwell last few days to read much but the bits I've seen have been terrifying. 

Feels like we're becoming more like a dictatorship everyday   

leeCal

What changes have been made @Biblioklept?
I haven’t been paying attention

Biblioklept

The UK gov is replacing the Human Rights Act, with their own version written by our current "leaders" and spearheaded by Raab. This was an interesting read on it https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/22/the-guardian-view-on-raabs-bill-of-rights-liberty-bent-to-prejudice

Cartini

It`s not a dictatorship at all; it`s about removing another component of the EU from our laws.

I`m all for it if it prevents a rapist / murderer from another country evading deportation because it infringes his "human rights".

The piece of filth in this article avoided deportation because of the Human Rights Act:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10959109/Grooming-gang-leader-WONT-kicked-UK-winning-fight-against-deportation.html

Biblioklept

Are you not concerned about which of your current rights will be removed by it? Have you read the new ones? 

Cartini

Biblioklept said:

Are you not concerned about which of your current rights will be removed by it? Have you read the new ones? 

I doubt you`ve read the new ones; the media tends to specialise in "sensationalistic journalism".  I will support a government which implements a tool to deport those who do harm to our society.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/human-rights-act-reform-a-modern-bill-of-rights/human-rights-act-reform-a-modern-bill-of-rights-consultation

woodbine

The ECHR stepped in and stopped the deportations to Rwanda thankfully, we were one of the main signatures to the ECHR in 1953 most of it was Chuchills idea, it predated the Treaty of Rome (just) and we can but hope that we remain a member of the ECHR.

Cartini

woodbine said:

The ECHR stepped in and stopped the deportations to Rwanda thankfully, we were one of the main signatures to the ECHR in 1953 most of it was Chuchills idea, it predated the Treaty of Rome (just) and we can but hope that we remain a member of the ECHR.

Thank you, I wasn`t aware of that.  I`ve learnt something new.  However, it doesn`t change my belief / opnion.

Biblioklept

Cartini said:

Biblioklept said:

Are you not concerned about which of your current rights will be removed by it? Have you read the new ones? 

I doubt you`ve read the new ones; the media tends to specialise in "sensationalistic journalism".  I will support a government which implements a tool to deport those who do harm to our society.

Wary of sensationalistic journalism but posts links to a Daily Mail article...

Genuinely though I'd love to hear your thoughts on this: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/bill-repeal-human-rights-act/ 

Cartini

I`ve read the article and it`s clear the author is not impartial, so I`m taking no notice of it (I`ll read the official version on the gov website). The lack of impartiality is also enforced by this comment from mediabiasfactcheck (about opendemocracy.net):

They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. 

Viola

I won't comment on media sources because they've all done a rubbish job of covering this and the bill's potential impact. I'm not surprised though, since outlets either can't (or won't) accurately differentiate between the European Union and the European Court of Human Rights which are completely separate entities. Once again the two have been conveniently muddled.

There seems to be no justification for doing away with the Human Rights Act and replacing it with the Bill of Rights, other than that it stops an independent body stepping in when the government decides to do something abhorrent.

In my opinion, citizens of any country should be concerned when its leaders

1. rush through legislation without opportunity for adequate consultation or review by its opposition
2. pass laws against organised protest
3. remove independent checks and balances against their power and then replace those independent checks and balances with bodies they can directly influence or pressure

I, for one, am a little bit worried about living in a country where only the government can hold the government to account!

Karen7788

I’ve read up quite a bit about it @Biblioklept and I agree with you, it’s very worrying and definitely not in the public interest. 

Cartini

Viola said:

There seems to be no justification for doing away with the Human Rights Act and replacing it with the Bill of Rights, other than that it stops an independent body stepping in when the government decides to do something abhorrent.

I`m guessing from your comment that you voted to remain.  Why else support the ECHR.  We`ve left the EU; we`re an independent nation and, as such, should not have the court of another nation dictating what we can and can`t do.

woodbine

Cartini said:

Viola said:

There seems to be no justification for doing away with the Human Rights Act and replacing it with the Bill of Rights, other than that it stops an independent body stepping in when the government decides to do something abhorrent.

I`m guessing from your comment that you voted to remain.  Why else support the ECHR.  We`ve left the EU; we`re an independent nation and, as such, should not have the court of another nation dictating what we can and can`t do.

I voted leave but I want us to remain in the ECHR which as I said earlier pre-dates (just) the treaty of Rome in 1953, and our entry into the then Common market by 20 years (1973), for me the two are unconnected.

Biblioklept

Cartini said:

Viola said:

There seems to be no justification for doing away with the Human Rights Act and replacing it with the Bill of Rights, other than that it stops an independent body stepping in when the government decides to do something abhorrent.

I`m guessing from your comment that you voted to remain.  Why else support the ECHR.  We`ve left the EU; we`re an independent nation and, as such, should not have the court of another nation dictating what we can and can`t do.

Why support the ECHR? Because it protects our basic rights? Keeps our government accountable? Because it prohibits slavery and torture? It promotes the assumption of innocent until proven guilty and protects freedom of speech? Gives the right to a fair trial? 

Surely the question is why wouldn't anyone support the ECHR? 

Cartini

Biblioklept said:

Cartini said:

Viola said:

There seems to be no justification for doing away with the Human Rights Act and replacing it with the Bill of Rights, other than that it stops an independent body stepping in when the government decides to do something abhorrent.

I`m guessing from your comment that you voted to remain.  Why else support the ECHR.  We`ve left the EU; we`re an independent nation and, as such, should not have the court of another nation dictating what we can and can`t do.

Why support the ECHR? Because it protects our basic rights? Keeps our government accountable? Because it prohibits slavery and torture? It promotes the assumption of innocent until proven guilty and protects freedom of speech? Gives the right to a fair trial? 

Surely the question is why wouldn't anyone support the ECHR? 

Because it gives Europe (read ECHR for that) control over our laws, that`s why not.

Biblioklept

It doesn't give Europe control over anything. It's an international court. Although even if it did, I'd much rather an independent third party be involved than giving 100% power to our government. 
I was interested to read only 27 of the 46 member states are in the EU.

Cartini

Biblioklept said:

It doesn't give Europe control over anything.

Read my comment again - properly.  I said Europe (read ECHR for that).

By your beliefs then, any other country should be allowed to pry into the domestic affairs of an independent nation.

Biblioklept

Not any other country, no. But there should be some oversight or we're asking for a world of Hitler's or Putins. 
Perhaps it comes down to how much trust someone has in our current government. I have zero. So do I trust them to act without any oversight while also removing our right to even protest? No. 

Cartini

Biblioklept said:

Perhaps it comes down to how much trust someone has in our current government. I have zero.

There`s the crux of your concern; not trusting the government.

Personally, if the change to protests gets rid of the likes of Extinction Rebellion, Insulate Britain and any other yobbish mob who cause mayhem to the lives of every day citizens, I`m all for it.

You and I are never going to agree.

calcotti

Cartini said: I`m guessing from your comment that you voted to remain.  Why else support the ECHR.  We`ve left the EU; we`re an independent nation and, as such, should not have the court of another nation dictating what we can and can`t do.

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. Our It is separate and was, as already observed by woodbine, largely written by the UK. We signed up to the ECHR (1953 I think) long before we became members of the EU.