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What is 'therapy' / ' monitoring condition'?

newbie2017newbie2017 Member Posts: 11 Listener
About to fill in husband's pip form - he has eating disorder and was recommended CBT by mental health nurse.
I help him with CBT at home whilst he eats. Is this classed as 'therapy'? I monitor his mental/physical health as he doesn't fully acknowledge his disorder.....
Should he qualify for points on this question?

is 'therapy' just 'physical therapy' or does it apply to 'mental health therapy' as well??

Any advice/case law that states what 'therapy' is? thank you.

Replies

  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,729 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @newbie2017
    Welcome to the community, the CAB descibes it as:
    "treatments you have in your home that have been prescribed or recommended by a medical professional."
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • newbie2017newbie2017 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    Sam_Scope said:
    Hi @newbie2017
    Welcome to the community, the CAB descibes it as:
    "treatments you have in your home that have been prescribed or recommended by a medical professional."
    So cbt recommended by a Mental Health Nurse and done at home IS therapy?  Thus he should get points?

  • newbie2017newbie2017 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    Hi, could a benefits adviser clarify please?
    Many thanks...
  • newbie2017newbie2017 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    Would be so grateful for clarification - im not 100% sure if cbt for mental health is considered as 'therapy' under this descriptor....everything ive read talks about 'physical' not 'mental' therapy???

    thankyou for any help.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello newbie2017; This is a tricky one, so I am going to quote exactly what's written in the Disability Rights Handbook as it explains everything better than I could! Here goes. 
    'Managing therapy' means undertaking therapy, where a failure to do so is likely to result in a deterioration in your health. The activity considers the amount of time each week that you need support from another person to be able to manage the therapy. The therapy needs to be undertaken at home and needs to have been prescribed by a registered doctor, nurse or a health professional. It could include home oxygen supply, home dialysis, exercise regimes designed to prevent your condition getting worse...It does not include taking, applying or receiving medication or anything related to the monitoring of your health condition. 

    'Monitoring a health condition' means a) detecting significant changes in your health condition which are likely to lead to a deterioration in your health; AND b) taking action advised by a registered doctor, nurse or health professional without which your health is likely to deteriorate. This would include, for example, monitoring your blood sugar levels if you have insulin-dependent diabetes. It could also include the support you need if you are at risk of accidental or deliberate overdose or accidental self-harm.

    References: PIP regulations, Schedule 1; PIP Assessment Guide, para 3.4 (Activity 3).

    The PIP activities are just as relevant to mental health issues as physical ones. but they can be more difficult to describe. A good formula to stick to is: describe what you need help with, how often you need it, what would happen if you didn't receive it, any recent examples that show the effect on daily life, and the fact that the situation is unlikely to improve in the near future. Remember that one of the key PIP principles is - if you can't do the activity 'safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period' then you may be able to get points.

    I hope this helps, and come back to us if you need further clarification.

    Jayne

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • newbie2017newbie2017 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    Hello newbie2017; This is a tricky one, so I am going to quote exactly what's written in the Disability Rights Handbook as it explains everything better than I could! Here goes. 
    'Managing therapy' means undertaking therapy, where a failure to do so is likely to result in a deterioration in your health. The activity considers the amount of time each week that you need support from another person to be able to manage the therapy. The therapy needs to be undertaken at home and needs to have been prescribed by a registered doctor, nurse or a health professional. It could include home oxygen supply, home dialysis, exercise regimes designed to prevent your condition getting worse...It does not include taking, applying or receiving medication or anything related to the monitoring of your health condition. 

    'Monitoring a health condition' means a) detecting significant changes in your health condition which are likely to lead to a deterioration in your health; AND b) taking action advised by a registered doctor, nurse or health professional without which your health is likely to deteriorate. This would include, for example, monitoring your blood sugar levels if you have insulin-dependent diabetes. It could also include the support you need if you are at risk of accidental or deliberate overdose or accidental self-harm.

    References: PIP regulations, Schedule 1; PIP Assessment Guide, para 3.4 (Activity 3).

    The PIP activities are just as relevant to mental health issues as physical ones. but they can be more difficult to describe. A good formula to stick to is: describe what you need help with, how often you need it, what would happen if you didn't receive it, any recent examples that show the effect on daily life, and the fact that the situation is unlikely to improve in the near future. Remember that one of the key PIP principles is - if you can't do the activity 'safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period' then you may be able to get points.

    I hope this helps, and come back to us if you need further clarification.

    Jayne

    Thank you Jayne,

    still a bit confused :/ so could i say the cbt helps my husband to stop his anxiety about food and eating?
    He can not monitor his condition and 'take action/correct it' - if he lost weight he would not want to eat more to put the weight back on......
    Does this qualify???

    thank you for any help.......
  • newbie2017newbie2017 Member Posts: 11 Listener
    Hi, Does anyone have any ideas if this is correct?
    Would be grateful for a reply,
    Thank you....
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    I think all you can do is to make the argument with as much detail as possible especially what would be the result if this didn't happen. If you can give examples that have happened even better.

    I wish you the best of luck with it, please let us know how you get on

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • unicorn85unicorn85 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Id like to know about this as well - i have a friend going through similar problems....and filling in the pip form.
    Hopefully someone with knowledge in this area could help.....
    Any ideas Mike hughes? (ive read your fantastic replies and i think you'll know the answer to this one)....

    Many thanks 
  • unicorn85unicorn85 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Any Advice?
    Thank you
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    @mikehughescq, any advice for the above? 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 7,184 Disability Gamechanger

    That's weird. I thought I answered this last night but perhaps it didn't post properly. If the therapy is at home and has been prescribed by a medical professional then you're halfway there on this activity. The key question is whether the absence of such therapy would be likely to lead to a deterioration.

    There's no case law I'm aware of as yet dealing with deterioration. "Likely" just means more likely than not. If you can show an absence of the therapy (perhaps one session of CBT was missed for example) produced an immediate deterioration and evidence that from the counsellor then that's the job done. However, you can still show "likely" on the balance of probabilities if everyone concerned says they think it so, even if it hasn't happened yet. There is likely to be a distinction drawn though between people who are anxious and unhappy about missing their therapy and those where it produces a clear deterioration.

    There is also no case law I'm immediately aware of as to whether the deterioration has to be immediate or can be over a longer period. I think the clue is still in the word "likely". Without that word being in there I think you'd say it would have to be an immediate deterioration. With it being there I would say a slower deterioration could still potentially be relevant.

    Physical therapy like physio. is in part preventative. I don't see an issue with arguing that talking therapy is exactly the same.

    As far as form filling is concerned I also disagree with the idea that mental ill health is harder to explain that physical health. The issue is really that people don't have PIP etc. properly explained to them and don't have it explained to them that there is no magic form of words used by welfare rights advisers that conjures up the perfect claim form. The main issue for everyone is that we're not very good at form completion and writing long-form detail. It really comes down to understanding how crucial anecdote is and the fundamental difference between assertion and evidence.

    So, assertion is where you write "I have arthritis in my left knee and my legs give way beneath me once a week and I fall". 

    Evidence is where you write "I have arthritis in my left knee and my legs give way beneath me once a week and I fall. I get no warning of my legs giving way and I have fallen both indoors and out. I can fall even when in familiar surroundings and aware of potential hazards. Around 1 in 2 falls result in my either needing medical attention e.g. anything from plasters for cuts to trips to A&E.

    When I fall, part of the problem is that I cannot get up by myself. I need help from another person or nearby furniture. This is because I have insufficient strength in both my legs and my right arm to pull myself up alone. Last time I fell was a week ago and I fell near my back door step. I slipped and turned my ankle; fell down one step and therefore couldn't reach back to the kitchen table. My mobile was on the table so I had to wait 2 hours for when my husband arrived home and then go and see my GP as I think I was in shock."

    The first is an assertion. The second is anecdote and contains real, credible evidence as it makes no assumptions and explains everything. I tend to explain it to people as filling in the form with the conversation you have with friends and family or down the pub when you explain your stuff to them. It really is no harder than the what, where, when, how, why and what happened next. Do that for every question and, whilst it may take some time, you will have a quality claim pack.


  • unicorn85unicorn85 Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Thanks for the reply mike, it clears things up....thank you  :)
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