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Pip evidence

charlie2017
charlie2017 Community member Posts: 24 Listener
edited February 2018 in PIP, DLA, and AA
I wondered what evidence people have sent with their claim forms ? I was led to believe the more evidence you send the less chance they will be able to discount your problems or say you're exaggerating but now I'm hearing they ignore the evidence anyway? I'm very confused ! 
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Comments

  • Sam_Alumni
    Sam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,671 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @charlie2017 I would say that sending as much evidence as possible is a good thing as it gives assessors the most information possible. :)
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  • charlie2017
    charlie2017 Community member Posts: 24 Listener
    So do they actually read it ? I sent three letters from ms nurses. One from neurologist, one from my colorectal nurse, one from speech and language therapist , prescription lists, a 9 page diary, a letter from my manager , a copy of my access to work grant for transport to and from work and I still don't know if that's enough 
  • Nasmamu
    Nasmamu Community member Posts: 45 Connected
    Matilda said:
    @charlie2017

    It's hit and miss how much notice assessors and DWP take of written evidence submitted with PIP claim form.  I submitted my repeat prescription list and a week's diary.  In addition, with my permission, DWP submitted the medical reports from when I first claimed DLA.  Initially I was awarded PIP standard daily living and standard mobility (moving around).  At Tribunal I was awarded enhanced daily living and enhanced mobility.

    The Tribunal placed a lot of emphasis on my diary, my prescription list and the medical reports, as well as on my oral evidence.  So, if DWP ignore the written evidence, a Tribunal will take notice of it.
    Hi Matilda sorry to jockey onto somebody else's question but im in process of collating evidence myself for pip. if i may ask, how many days long was your diary? my condition doesn't really fluctuate but i want to make ATOS and if needs be any tribunal judge understand my difficulties day on day just so they can understand just how difficult living with CP and Crohns really is and how much i rely on my family for help. thank you.
  • Matilda
    Matilda Community member Posts: 2,593 Disability Gamechanger
    @Nasmamu

    My diary covered seven consecutive days.  With a longer diary, I think that assessors and Tribunals probably would only look at the last seven days, anyway.
    Disability Rights have a draft PIP diary on their website.  In the diary list any aids you use.
  • steve51
    steve51 Community member Posts: 7,153 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Matilda.

    Welcome to our online community !!!

    I have always submitted as much/up to date info as I can  (Medical)

    To date the more info that I have submitted the better the assessors can understand our ongoing problems/difficulties !!!!

     I hope that this info is helpful, please let me know if I can help you further ???
  • charlie2017
    charlie2017 Community member Posts: 24 Listener
    I was told initially the more evidence you send the better which is why I sent so much but then people are saying they don't take any of it into account anyway so I'm not sure how that works or if that's not the case or doesn't happen often 
  • ourvoices
    ourvoices Community member Posts: 47 Connected

    Hi Everyone, it is better to send in as much evidence as you can with your claim form. 

    If you are unhappy with the initial decision from the DWP and decide to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, you can then refer to all the evidence you sent.  The onus is then on the DWP to explain why this wasn't considered.

    Equally, if you then appeal and go to a Tribunal, the Judge will also be aware that you have fulfilled your part of the process and supplied all the evidence for the Health Professionals and DWP to consider. 

    Essentially, the fault is theirs not yours.

    Hope this helps.

  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    @charlie2017 yes send in as much evidence as you can. It's useful to match it to the PIP descriptors you are aiming to get and not send stuff they don't need. I know you've already sent yours. I have just ploughed through a great pile of paperwork from my Subject Access Request that has given me a better idea how the PIP process works. The evidence is first received by DWP and is then sent to the assessment company for your assessor to see and use to do your f2f and PA4 report. Each time you request a review ie at Mandatory Reconsideration they send the appropriate evidence back to be assessed by another HP. DWP decision makers do not assess the evidence themselves as they have no medical expertise but they do take note of it and decide which bits of evidence the HP's will need if you're asking them to look at changing your award or just certain parts of it. I think this is where the confusion comes in as everyone thinks that it's the DM's or case workers who decide on the scores but that's not the way it's working. So the evidence is being sent to the right people the fault lies in the HP's willingness or ability to understand the medical conditions and how that affects the claimant. Also having made a mess of it the first time they are reluctant to admit they were wrong. (My opinion ). This is the reason there are so many complaints and why they're not being investigated properly. The only thing you can do is send your evidence and keep on ringing and writing if it's not used properly and if you need to go to Appeal the panel have enough knowledge between them to make an informed decision. 
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Community member Posts: 5,209 Disability Gamechanger
    The most important evidence you send in is the first that you send in. The DWP place more importance on this as likely to be true, rather than later submissions that try to fit to certain descriptors. Try to only send evidence that is relevant to your claim and the newest evidence does carry more weight. It is a good idea, if you have a lot of paperwork, to prepare a summary  and a reference index, bullet pointing for each descriptor where to find the specific, relevant evidence. This will make the DM's job simpler and ensure that nothing is lost. 
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @CockneyRebel I'm very interested to know where you read or who told you the first evidence is more important? This might worry some people who aren't able to send all their evidence in with their claim form. There are a number of reasons why evidence might be late like if you've asked the surgery for printouts from your records but they can't do it straight away. You may be asked for further evidence to help with your MR if there's something the DM wants clarifying. This would be equally if not more important than your original evidence as it may be the difference between keeping your award the same or increasing it. 
                    Anyhow that's a good idea about referencing your paperwork so long as your claim didn't include not being able to handle your own affairs.
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Community member Posts: 5,209 Disability Gamechanger
    When I refer to first evidence it is understandable that given the short time we have in getting stuff together, even with an extension, that not everything is available in that time frame. First evidence is that which supports your first application and should include any late submissions that you have told them about. Extra evidence for MR's and Tribunals should not be necessary if you have already submited your best case, unless asked for by the DM etc
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood, I thought you meant just what you sent in with the claim form.
                          I have found out from receiving all my DLA evidence from 2010 that evidence that was accepted then by a Tribunal for help from another person with showering and preparing food caused by long term conditions was not accepted in 2017 for PIP. Even though the conditions themselves have been accepted. The excuse DWP make is that the criteria is different for PIP. Criteria is not the activity itself but the disabling conditions that are present that require help to be needed. Preparing food is an everyday necessity and peeling veg. is peeling veg. Does anyone know of any literature that describes the difference that DWP often refer to on their statement of reasons to deny former DLA recipients from having points in these activities, or do any of you have any thoughts on this?
  • Barrylad1957
    Barrylad1957 Community member Posts: 99 Courageous
    Not disagreeing with what others have said on here, but I was advised by local welfare rights to send in my claim form, and that the assessors and/or dwp would request information from my GP; that I would be asked to bring a prescription list and my meds to the assessment when ias/atos contacted me, and that is precisely what it says on the letter in front of me now. My GP told me that she had received, completed and returned two forms sent to the surgery in respect of both my PIP claim, and my long awaited, long overdue WCA. A neighbour who had his first new claim for pip allowed after an assessment six weeks ago, took along his meds in a carrier bag, and a five day diary record of his daily life trials, and was successful. My mate who suffers terribly from a rheumatoid/arthritic condition, submitted reports from neurology, musculo skeletal and psychiatric consultants, plus a long list of the wheel barrow of meds he has to take daily, and was also successful. You hear so many different variations on what to do and what not to do, it all becomes confusing.
    It seems to be the case that things vary from area to area, and assessor to assessor; advice I've had from both claimants and welfare groups locally doesnt always tally with what people whom I know have been advised to do in places as far spread as Pembrokeshire, Essex, and in South Yorkshire. What to do, what not to do.
  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Community member Posts: 596 Pioneering
    I send in a prescription list and various letters from my GP, ENT doctor, psychiatrist and audiologist. All were ignored. 
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,293 Pioneering
    Did you know that in the updated (Sept. 2016) DWP Guide to the PIP assessment for assessor's that the HP's are supposed to review the evidence and decide whether it's enough or if any more is needed. If the latter they should arrange to contact the people on the claim form to get the evidence needed. I've never heard of them doing this so the advice is still to get your own evidence. 
  • Waylay
    Waylay Community member, Scope Member Posts: 973 Pioneering
    In my experience (6 tribunals now, and won all of them), the DWP only look at the assessor's report, both for the initial decision and for MR. However, it's really important to send it all in, 1) because there's a possibility that you'll be one of the few people whose evidence they actually check, and 2) because the Tribunal really hate it when they can see that the DWP have ignored important medical evidence. 
  • alffy90
    alffy90 Community member Posts: 4 Listener
    edited February 2018
    My long term GP recently retired (I wasn't informed by the way) and my surgery had linked up with another one, therefore a bigger patient list. I've been in 2 times asking for supporting evidence from whoever my new GP is. The first time a doctor explained to me that PIP will ask the surgery for supporting evidence and then waffled on about cost, unpaid overtime for writing letters, and how the surgery has 20,000 patients.
    Last week I got a letter saying I would be having a face to face assessment at my home and to provide some supporting evidence..once again a total brick wall from my surgery.

    Luckily my long term physiotherapist is writing supporting evidence and joining me for the assessment.

    i'm a paraplegic, 28years by the way.
  • Annabelle26
    Annabelle26 Scope Member Posts: 105 Pioneering
    When I done  my original claim for DLA  years ago a Doctor came to the house (he was a retired GP) & spent over an hour asking me all sorts of questions, examining equipment & watching me walking up & down the hall & because I lived in a flat I had to walk up & down the stairs outside.  On his report I was awarded  lifetime DLA highest mobility & lowest Care Component.  At the time my problems were not so bad.  Last year I was asked to apply for PIP.  My health problems have got worse & they also now include mental health problems.  I had to go for a F2F Assessment where a nurse with only a few years basic experience decided in a 20 minute interview that there was basically nothing wrong with me & produced an inaccurate report on which the DWP have decided I do not qualify for PIP and I am having to go to a Tribunal to prove otherwise.  My income has dropped dramatically because I have lost the DLA.  I cannot get a letter from my GP as they do not issue them but will send details to the DWP if asked for them which they have not done so so far.  On the PIP form I wrote in lots of detail about my conditions & gave details of various Specialists but the DWP have not contacted any of them & relied solely on the F2F report.
  • Matilda
    Matilda Community member Posts: 2,593 Disability Gamechanger
    @Annabelle26

    PIP is about how your conditions affect you, not the conditions themselves.  Your disabilities have to fit various relevant descriptors.  Disability Rights UK site has a good guide to all aspects of PIP including the list of descriptors.

    DWP don't contact doctors.  Did DWP ask if you wanted your original DLA medical reports included with your PIP claim?

    The Tribunal panel will place a lot of weight on your own testimony.  They will ask you many questions about what you can and can't do.  Don't be offended by their questions - the panel are there to find out the facts.

    In my case the DWP asked if I wanted the DLA medical evidence included and I said yes.  The Tribunal panel placed a lot of weight on that and on my own testimony, and not much weight on the assessor's report in which there was one blatant lie and a number of half-truths as I had pointed out in my appeal submission.  The Tribunal awarded me enhanced both components.

    Try to get some f2f advice locally, CAB or similar.  Scope Helpline might be able to tell you about local f2f advice.

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