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Help for a local guy who is stuck between a rock and a hard place - PIP
Yadnad
Member [under moderation] Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
This may resonate with some PIP applicants after talking to a local resident this afternoon who not surprisingly had his DLA (high mobility & middle rate care) taken off him and was awarded just 4 points for the care element
In filling in the PIP2 claim form he did not include all of his illnesses etc and consequently how those missing conditions impacted on his life. He gave the reasons that (a) who is going to believe him, and (b) he had no evidence whatsoever that proved the impact of them.
He failed to mention all of his mobility issues (believing that the previous DLA speaks for that in any event) as well as his mental health problems(which are numerous and reasonably serious). Instead he concentrated on those conditions that he had the evidence for (as per current GP records).
To be honest he is not one for taking up opportunities given to him by his GP to discuss these problems with the professionals. Also he fails to take quite a bit of his medication that the GP has authorised e.g. he receives (should receive) his medication on a monthly basis but his monthly supply lasts him up 4/5 months. He also misses regular appointments for his mental health as well as the normal DiabeticType 1 checks (eyes, blood sugar levels etc)
Not being the expert in claiming welfare benefits and certainly not PIP (as per my own personal history) I had no advice to give to him as to what to do now. Does he apply for a MR based on what he has written on the PIP2 or does he come 'clean' and tell the DWP that over a half of his problems were never put on the PIP2?
Given that he has little evidence if he did admit his failure is it possible that the DWP would be suspicious of this revised claim when no evidence can be handed over. Would it prejudice an appeal at a Tribunal?
He like myself has no welfare rights organisations that could be trusted to work with him.
He is 69 and lives on his own (albeit he has a dog for company)
In filling in the PIP2 claim form he did not include all of his illnesses etc and consequently how those missing conditions impacted on his life. He gave the reasons that (a) who is going to believe him, and (b) he had no evidence whatsoever that proved the impact of them.
He failed to mention all of his mobility issues (believing that the previous DLA speaks for that in any event) as well as his mental health problems(which are numerous and reasonably serious). Instead he concentrated on those conditions that he had the evidence for (as per current GP records).
To be honest he is not one for taking up opportunities given to him by his GP to discuss these problems with the professionals. Also he fails to take quite a bit of his medication that the GP has authorised e.g. he receives (should receive) his medication on a monthly basis but his monthly supply lasts him up 4/5 months. He also misses regular appointments for his mental health as well as the normal DiabeticType 1 checks (eyes, blood sugar levels etc)
Not being the expert in claiming welfare benefits and certainly not PIP (as per my own personal history) I had no advice to give to him as to what to do now. Does he apply for a MR based on what he has written on the PIP2 or does he come 'clean' and tell the DWP that over a half of his problems were never put on the PIP2?
Given that he has little evidence if he did admit his failure is it possible that the DWP would be suspicious of this revised claim when no evidence can be handed over. Would it prejudice an appeal at a Tribunal?
He like myself has no welfare rights organisations that could be trusted to work with him.
He is 69 and lives on his own (albeit he has a dog for company)
Replies
I obviously haven't seen the PIP2 form so I have no idea what he put on it. But given what he has told me, yes he would have probably said that the section that could relate to the missing issues were marked as 'not applicable'.
Yes he actually has problems but failed to mention them for the above reason.
His general opinion is what he told me - what's the point in telling the DWP of them when no one is going to believe him through lack of evidence.
I agree it's what I thought too. Not only would he have to explain why they were omitted and then explain what the impact of them is remembering that the DWP and a possible tribunal would say that it is asking far too much to expect anyone to believe him - thus in a roundabout sort of way proving his original attitude was right all along.
Maybe the actual answer is to tell the DWP now of a change of circumstance or as he does not have a current PIP claim, ask for a new PIP2 to start off a new claim and this time fill it out in all it's glory evidence or not.
What I can confirm is that there are no welfare rights agencies locally bar the CAB which is useless (my experience) or AgeUK where there is someone that can help fill out the form and not a lot else - they just don't have the expertise.
CAB are worse than useless that's if you actually manage to get in to see someone. AgeUK are OK 'ish for filling in forms and not a lot else.
Personally I don't rate his chances as it could be seen that he is only putting these 'extras' in because he has already failed to get an award which in a way is actually true. I know that I would be suspicious as his reasons are beyond believable for most to accept.
I'll call round in the morning and tell him that that really is his only option. Fancy blowing the opportunity like he has. I don't really want to get that involved simply because I am far from being an expert in all of this.
I’m afraid I don’t buy the “no evidence” line. It once again smacks of the incorrect belief that only medical evidence is evidence and asking doesn’t ring true. Even prior to a diagnosis we’re all able to describe both symptoms and anecdotes as ti the impact.
If he’s a DLA to PIP conversion and believes that his DLA award spoke for itself then during the conversion call he will of course have also asked for all the evidence used to determine his DLA award to be taken into account. If he didn’t then, putting aside that wouldn’t stack up with his belief his DLA spoke for itself, there’s nothing to stop him asking for that to happen at this stage. Case law demands that the PIP 1 should at least be in the appeal papers.
There seems to also to be an implication that “no evidence” means his GP doesn’t know of some of his health issues. That strikes me as unlikely given that he’s receiving meds on a monthly basis but either way it’s easy to remedy. Go see the GP; explain the history; get sent to a specialist if necessary but the mere act of going would add to medical records.
The question of whether DWP would be suspicious is frankly neither here nor there. A complete red herring. What determines an award is the quality and type of evidence. Any decision which focuses on a justification of “we think it lacks credibility because he didn’t say it from the off” is erroneous in law. It’s an irrelevant consideration. A history of mental health issues would be more than enough to suggest issues with disclosure meds etc.
One of the fascinating things in welfare rights is claimants persistence in thinking their case is more complex than it is and contains some unique element which they see as potentially insurmountable. Most cases are rarely that and this falls absolutely into that category.
A claim has failed for want of sufficient evidence. Do an MR and provide the evidence. It’s really no more complex than that.
I also think that this case leads us back nicely to the question of a claimant's own submissions/his or her partner's own submissions, and whether or not the DWP gives weight to this evidence, as opposed to the evidence of a GP.
And please, before anyone posts anything about the possibility of fraudulent evidence likely provided by partners (or even friends) DON'T say it! My mental health cannot cope with that again.