PIP Tribunal next week

Tamsin · August 2019

Hi all, I've posted a few times before and people have kindly advised me. My mum has her PIP Tribubal next week. We requested a set aside of a tribunal decision that was reached without my mum present back in october ( they awarded enhanced mobilty and she scored 6 points only for daily living, which is 6 points more than the awful assessor gave her). My question is, could my mum lose the mobility if the tribunal goes badly? She struggles to get her point across and I've been told that even if I go with her I wont be allowed to prompt her or speak for her at all. Does anyone have any tips for getting through the tribunal? She is terrified and doesn't want to go. We have waited over a year for this. Thanks in advance!

poppy123456 · August 2019

Hi,

If they plan on lowering her mobility award or taking it away completely then they will warn her before by either writing to her or at the start of the hearing they will warni her and adjourn it so that she can then go away and decide what she wants to do.

Yes, she will need to speak for herself during the hearing because the panel will want to hear it from her how her conditions affect her. They may ask you at the end if there's anything you want to add but this doesn't always happen.

I'm sure others will be along shortly to tell you their experiences. Good luck.

Tamsin · August 2019

Thanks for your reply poppy123456, much appreciated!

Chloe_Scope · August 2019

I wish you the very best of luck with the tribunal @Tamsin! Please do let us know if we can help with anything else.

Moonblue27 · August 2019

Hello I’ve just had my tribunal today. I’ve waited 19 months since my first assessment. I’ve had two assessments but my first one, even though I knew the name of my assessor and had a companion with me, I was accused of not turning up. I was branded a liar even though I produced evidence, passport etc to identify myself. My second assessment I was given the enhanced rate care but standard mobility so lost my car. I appealed. It’s taken this long to be heard. I went through my second assessment throughly and it was littered with inconsistencies from the assessor. When I got my court date I wrote a detailed letter to the courts underlining every mistake they made. The panel of one judge a Doctor and a disability expert were brilliant and believed that I went to my first assessment and apologised for the stress that it would have caused me. The Doctor asked me a few questions then the judge after 15 mins asked me to leave the room. Five mins later the judge himself came in the waiting room and handed me a piece of paper to say they had upheld my appeal and have given me enhanced Motability. I burst out crying. Not just because I had won but because they believed me and they treated me as a decent human being. So please folks never give up. Go through your assessment with a fine tooth comb. Prepare your papers to the courts and take deep breaths and just take your time answering the questions . I have the worse form of Rheumatoid Arthritis and the Doctor could see straight away I wasn’t lying so good luck to all stay strong because appeals can be won xxx

Chloe_Scope · August 2019

Hi @Moonblue27 and a warm welcome to the community! Thank you for taking the time to share this with us all and I'm so glad that you were listened to at the tribunal, as this can make all the difference.

Please do let me know if there is anything we can do to help and I look forward to seeing you around.

Tamsin · August 2019

Thank you both for the encouragement @Moonblue27 and @Chloe_Scope. Well done on your victory @Moonblue27, amazing news!

Unfortunately my mum is now saying she won't attend, she is in such a state of anxiety. I know she has to attend, what happens if I can't make her?? Thanks

poppy123456 · August 2019

I'm sorry to hear this. If she doesn't attend then they will most likely make a decision without her, like they did before. This may not be a good thing for her because attending in person will always give you the best chance of a decision in your favour. 74% of those that appear in person against 5-8% of those that have a paper based decision, so the difference is a lot.

Tamsin · August 2019

Thanks @poppy123456 I'll try my best to get her there. Also, will the tribunal know that a paper tribunal occurred without her knowledge, she was then awarded enhanced mobility and that the decision was then set aside when we requested an oral hearing? In her bundle there is no reference to the paper hearing at all.

Thanks

Chloe_Scope · August 2019

Hi @Tamsin, I'm sorry to hear this, I understand how difficult it can be to attend the assessments. Especially when you have gone through it before and it needs to be appealed.

We'll be here if you need anymore support and I hope it goes okay.

poppy123456 · August 2019

I'm afraid i don't know the answer to that. If she decides not to attend then she really should contact HMCTS and tell them she won't be attending and her reasons why. A paper based decision may go ahead either way.

Moonblue27 · August 2019

Please Tamsin Try to get your mum to go I know it’s hard but when they see you face-to-face it makes all the difference the clerk said to me it would take 45 minutes I was in 15 minutes they could clearly see that I was in pain I had rheumatoid arthritis and I was no shirker the doctor was brilliant she was very sympathetic as was the judge so please encourage your mum to go because at least if she goes you get a decision there and then. They are very very sympathetic and they treat you like human beings and I burst out crying when I came out of that room because I was believed.xxx good luck xx

david235 · August 2019

poppy123456 said:

If they plan on lowering her mobility award or taking it away completely then they will warn her before by either writing to her or at the start of the hearing they will warni her and adjourn it so that she can then go away and decide what she wants to do.

Ordinarily the rule is as you say - if a Tribunal is minded to reduce or remove an entitlement they will warn the claimant so that the claimant has the opportunity to withdraw their appeal and leave the original decision in place.

However, in the case of @Tamsin 's mother, an application to set aside was successful. Once the set aside has been granted, the set aside decision is of no effect and must be remade - rule 37(1) of The Tribunal Procedure (First-tier Tribunal) (Social Entitlement Chamber) Rules 2008 (SI 2008/2685) refers.

Arguably the right way to have proceeded here would have been to apply for the only the decision in relation to the Daily Living component to be set aside, on the basis that it is in the interests of justice for the Tribunal to hear from the claimant who was not present at the previous hearing to establish the correct entitlement to that component. However, the set aside application has already been made and granted - so if the entire findings of the original tribunal have been set aside, it will be as if the original tribunal never happened.

Tamsin · August 2019

Thank you for all your kind responses, @david235 thanks for the clarification, that is helpful to know. My mum is being represented by CAB and sadly at no point did they suggest that she only request a set aside of the daily living decision otherwise we would have taken that option as now she risks losing her enhanced mobility too. I assume then that this tribunal will not have any knowledge of the paper hearing decision being set aside? Thanks again for your responses.

david235 · August 2019

There is no guarantee that an application to set aside just the Daily Living component decision would have succeeded, @Tamsin . To my mind, such an application would have had to explain carefully why only the Daily Living part of the decision was unjust in the absence of your mother. A careful explanation that the Tribunal had fully considered all relevant matters to Mobility but was denied the opportunity to consider one or more specific opportunities to award your mother additional Daily Living points because the Tribunal did not have the advantage of hearing from her might have succeeded in getting just the Daily Living component part of the decision set aside. This is purely hypothetical now that the entire decision has been set aside.

My understanding is that the new Tribunal will have no information whatsoever about the earlier Tribunal because the legal position is now as if the earlier Tribunal never happened. Even if the new Tribunal had any information on the earlier Tribunal, it would not be bound by the findings of that Tribunal but is instead legally required to make its own decision by making findings of fact and applying the law to those findings of fact.

You might be able to obtain additional clarification from HMCTS - though I would concentrate on supporting your mother through her fresh Tribunal. Thank you for supporting her and encouraging her to attend. Those things, together with her being represented, maximise her chance of success - but nothing is guaranteed, I am afraid.

kezhendo73 · August 2019

Please tell your mum I had my tribunal on the 27th and it was so different from what I had expected.
I really didn't want to go my anxiety was through the roof but I'm so glad i went I was treated like person it's not all uptight like you think it would be the worst part was the waiting to by called through.
I really hope your mum makes it as it think it stands you in better steed.
Either way i really hope it is successful for her.

Tamsin · August 2019

Thank you for your replies, my mum has decided she will attend, I'll keep you all posted of the result.

nicolafhurst · August 2019

Ive just had my pip appeal yesterday after a year and half and I’ve won my appeal I’m now high disability and high mobility hopefully yours will go in your favour as well keep us informed and it’s not as scary as I thought it would be they were very nice but it’s a relief it’s over with now for five years at least xx good luck to anyone going through this xx

nicolafhurst · August 2019

My parents also came yesterday with me and was asked at the end if they wanted to add anything so I’m sure you will be able to speak as well xx

Adrian_Scope · August 2019

Hi @Tamsin, I'm really glad your mum has reconsidered and will attend, please let us know how she gets on.

Thanks for sharing your experience @nicolafhurst and well done on winning your appeal, it must be a huge relief!

nicolafhurst · August 2019

It really is took so long but so worth the wait xx thank you

PIP Tribunal next week

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