PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP Tribunal help please!

marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
I am having my tribunal on Monday, today i got my decision about changes of circumstances and all stayed the same!
Letters from GP, counselor, friends, the assement was 1,5 hours and nothing changed.
I am breaking down at the moment as I am in disbelief.
My husband explained to them he has to help me get out of the bath, just an example, which should have been 3 points. Nothing!

My neighbour wrote a letter that i can't be alone, that she, my husband and my counselor took 2 days to get me to take antibiotics, not a single points on my anxiety!!

This is a discrace.

I am trying to remeber where i can find the link to upload the new evidance to the tribunal and i just can't remember where it was or how to look for it?

Does anyone know please?

Thank you

Replies

  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 10,103 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @marija - is this the link you're looking for, if you scroll down to 'Continue with an existing appeal?' Please see: https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision/submit-appeal
    Good luck with your tribunal too.
  • marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
    chiarieds said:
    Hi @marija - is this the link you're looking for, if you scroll down to 'Continue with an existing appeal?' Please see: https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision/submit-appeal
    Good luck with your tribunal too.
    Thank you so much!!! ❤
    I am shaking, i am just left in disbelief.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 10,103 Disability Gamechanger
    Remember that the success rate is now higher with phone tribunals. Have someone with you for support. You can do this. :)
  • marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
    chiarieds said:
    Remember that the success rate is now higher with phone tribunals. Have someone with you for support. You can do this. :)
    My husband is my appointee as my anxiety takes over and i go blank, i start shaking and that is the end of my conversations...

    He was even talking on the assesment, but again no points awarded, as i was able to communicate?

    I am lost for words...

    But this site helped me since we joined...

    Cant type anymore i am sorry...

    Thank you guys ❤❤❤
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 7,089 Disability Gamechanger
    It is useful to remember that the help you need is not automatically the same as the help you get. Evidence from others that they help you is of very limited use because it says nothing about why they offer that help. It’s sometimes the case that the person doesn’t strictly need the help but is offered it because of love for example. So, when your explains that he gets you out of the bath it absolutely does not follow that you get 3 points. What matters more is you explaining explicitly why you need that help. That evidence at your tribunal will be more relevant than your neighbour or husband.
  • marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
    It is useful to remember that the help you need is not automatically the same as the help you get. Evidence from others that they help you is of very limited use because it says nothing about why they offer that help. It’s sometimes the case that the person doesn’t strictly need the help but is offered it because of love for example. So, when your explains that he gets you out of the bath it absolutely does not follow that you get 3 points. What matters more is you explaining explicitly why you need that help. That evidence at your tribunal will be more relevant than your neighbour or husband.
    Hi Mike,

    we did explain that, my hip movment got worse (as they could see from a letter from the hospital, very detailed),
    she asked me do you need help getting in and out of the bath.

    My husband answered yes, as the bathtub is to high for her to lift her left leg, i have to be there to physically help her in and get out.

    Then she asked, why no shower was installed (my husband was smart enough to write down almost every question she asked).

    My husband explained to her, we are in the process with the council and the housing associations to get an approval for a bathtub with a door which would make it easier.

    Not sure how much more into detailes we should have got 🤷‍♀️
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 7,089 Disability Gamechanger
    What you’ve put in is assertion. I can’t do x because. The bit that’s missing is the “and here are some real world examples”. So, saying someone can’t get in the bath because of a hip issue is fine. However, literally anyone could assert that. The evidence of that, the thing which brings it to life, is a real world example of actually trying and failing and all the description which goes with that. You don’t know you can’t get into a bath until you’ve failed once so, at the very least, you need a really detailed example of the once. 

    You don’t get points for anxiety. You get points for that anxiety preventing you performing am activity reliably and needing at minimum prompting to do so. Your antibiotics example is fine but I wonder just how much detail was in there and whether it was one example. One example is never enough as it allows the inference that, although something was bad, it was an isolated incident. 

    It is, frankly, far too late to be asking for help with a tribunal at this point in time but if it were me I would spend my time today bullet pointing at least two examples per points scoring activity and I’d then be prepared to go into detail about that at your hearing.

    The tribunal aren’t going to be interested in a critique of the HCP report. They already know most have some issues. What they want to know is what evidence do you have to counter it. This is your opportunity to provide anecdotal evidence in depth.
  • marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
    @mikehughescq

    Sorry i am trying to keep the sentances short.

    So about my mobilty they know from the beginning, hope i will be able to explain it better.

    Had a face to face back then so she saw for herself.

    I applied for change of circumstances as my movements are getting worse. We wrote down all the things i sadly can not do in full detail, with an attached letter of my doctor explain that my range of movment is very limited.

    My mental health, this had been long on going, therapy in germany for a long time, therapy here. But they disergarded that completly in 2016, tribunal is for the change in law.

    But DWP ignored every single letter from my therapist, from IAPT, from my GP that i am placed on an emergancy list, whilst the therapy was on hold due to COVID.

    I also suffer from IBS, which is triggered even worse due to my anxiety. So we explained due to the stress and pressure i can't travel alone or even plan a journey for longer distances, my husband has to do all of that.

    We went so much into detail both written and on the phone, how it impacts my day to day life.

    I didnt ask for help with the tribunal, i couldnt find the link anymore to submit evidance.

    The tribunal and dwp got the same evidance, so i hope the tribunal will see how much the DWP just blantly ignored.

    We asked for the assessor to have at least some kind of mental health experience, we got a paramedic, who said sorry not my strong point. So you question yourself, what is the point in all of this. Degrading yourself to a person who doesnt even know what is feels having a panic attack?

    I am sadly not suprised many just give up...

    If the tribunal doesnt go well, for my mental health and what is left of it and that of my husbands i will just let it be....
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 7,089 Disability Gamechanger
    I think I you’ve nicely summarised the issue. You have relied on medical evidence and stuff from others rather than you telling your own story of specific events. Monday will be your chance to do that.
  • marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
    @mikehughescq

    "We went so much into detail both written and on the phone, how it impacts my day to day life"

    I am not sure there is anything more that i could have done?? I did tell my own story, how i live with it day to day, my obsatcels, my struggles, how my body feels during a panick attack, how your brain just switches off...

    But if this wasnt enough, well then there is nothing more i can do...

    This is to much stress for getting help and then you need more help to recover after this..

    I am really thinking now to cancel the tribunal tomorrow morning...
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 7,089 Disability Gamechanger
    edited July 4
    I’m not sure why you would want to cancel the tribunal. It will be a very different experience to anything so far provided you focus on the activities and your experience of trying to do those activities. The win rate is far higher than for MR and the whole experience is one of being given the opportunity to focus on what matters. 

    All of the stuff below is interesting. It paints a picture. What it explicitly doesn’t do is identify which points you score and why. 

    That’s why I say you now need to sit down today; list the specific activities you think you score points on; identify the points and then bullet point two incidents per activity to remind you tomorrow. Doing that will mean you are as prepared as you can be under the circumstances. Focus on your evidence not theirs. This is the single most important advice you can be given at this point without representation. 

    Alternatively you can request an adjournment to seek representation but to do that you will need to have a service in mind rather than just a general “I’d like to seek a rep”. Start with https://advicelocal.uk/ and see if it throws up anything sensible. 

    At this point you need to be off the forum; sat at a table and doing some basic work on your case.
    marija said:
    @mikehughescq

    "We went so much into detail both written and on the phone, how it impacts my day to day life"

    I am not sure there is anything more that i could have done?? I did tell my own story, how i live with it day to day, my obsatcels, my struggles, how my body feels during a panick attack, how your brain just switches off...

    But if this wasnt enough, well then there is nothing more i can do...

  • marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
    @mikehughescq just an update, not sure if it is our luck, but i can say i wouldnt want to go through something like that again.

    At this point i dont even care about the outcome anymore...

    We managed to get a through to our citizen advice bureau, we went through everything step by step, the change of circumstances and the tribunal and she also said there was nothing more we could have done.

    As i tried to explain (i am trying to keep it short in the forum) we explained all to both, she said even with representation nothing more could have been added.

    The tribunla was rushed, then the dwp was there (she was put in place by the judge), but as said all was rushed, not proper time to explain. I dont think i ever read on here that the tribunal rushed people? 

    Only the medical person asked questions, the judge asked one, and it was the same as the medical person (i guess this was to see consistency in answers).

    This has just brought me to the end of my strenght, so i am officialy opting out of it.

    For people suffering from mental health issues this can leave more damaged then you have been before...

    It felt like the DWP made so many wrong decisions over the past years, that even the tribunals are overwhelmed and need to rush to hear everyone....
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 7,089 Disability Gamechanger
    Define “rushed”. Tribunals hear 8 cases per day. Slots are generally 40 minutes apart. 

    Part of the problem here is the idea that the only purpose of a tribunal is for you to talk and explain. No part of the process works like that or ever has from HCP through to tribunal. Claimants constantly claim HCP assessments and tribunals were rushed basically because they weren’t allowed to talk without limit and say every last word they wanted to say. If the “system” worked like that it would crumble in weeks. Perish the thought but most tribunals know exactly what they’re doing and can drill down rapidly to the relevant issues faster than any appellant. Unfortunately many claimants go in with an attitude of “this is stressful but I am going to tell them everything”. It starts from an incorrect assumption that tribunals are stupid and need to be told or educated. 
  • marijamarija Member Posts: 15 Connected
    @mikehughescq i am sorry for taking your time.

    I have the feeling whatever is post your will disect and put a negative spin sadly...

    english isnt my first language, but i do think i tried to explain the best i can...

    For someone dealing with mental health issues, this feels like beeing judged all over again...

    Citizen A. B. said we prepared perfectly, evidance, examples, good discription...

    No we didnt want to get any point across, we just answered questions, but i cant jump on queue it takes time to speak especially with 4 unknow people looking at you.

    If they, if would have asked the question do you have something to add, my husband might have added something, but it wasnt asked.

    I nowhere said the tribunal was stupid, but they agreed with me on one thing so did the Citizen A.b. for mental health proper staff needs to be hired as this is absolutly different then physical health.

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