Collecting evidence for a review

bluefox · November 2022

I have spoke to welfare rights this morning about collecting evidence for a review, as my ESA review is supposed to be December and my PIP review is 4 months away in March. The lady said that to gain enhanced mobility you would need a lot of evidence, as it’s usually for dementia and learning disability rather than mental health conditions or non-epileptic seizures. I’m not sure I agree with her?

Is it worth speaking to the GP? I can grab some evidence from my Mum, house mate and partner about how they have to help me manage daily. My GP is aware of how I’m affected now.

I have referral letters for the Neighbourhood Mental Health team but haven’t got into any kind of therapy yet.

poppy123456 · November 2022

bluefox said:

The lady said that to gain enhanced mobility you would need a lot of evidence, as it’s usually for dementia and learning disability rather than mental health conditions or non-epileptic seizures.

That's totally incorrect. Enhanced mobility for mental health can be awarded to those with OPD as well. However, if for the majority of time you're unable to go out then this would be 10 points for activity 1E, which is standard mobility.

GP letters are not the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you. Any other evidence that states how your conditions affect you is fine.

Just to add further, i would say it's very unlikely that the WCA review will be anytime soon.

nasturtium · November 2022

Hello Bluefox

If you have someone who helps you or knows you well and sees you often then you can ask them to write you a supporting letter to describe the problems you have and the help they give you or you need but do not get. They would need to include how they know you and how often they see you.

Also a good way to show your problems is to keep a disability or mental health diary using the PIP descriptors on the PIP info site here https://pipinfo.net/#activities and write each day the problems you had with the applicable descriptors that apply to you. Keep the diary for 7-10 days and this will show you what problems you have each day and it will give you an idea of the problems you have on the majority of days (more than 50% of the time) In the diary describe what happened and give details of any witnesses and the consequences. You can use the diary then to build up your claim and use it as evidence to backup your claim. Remember you need to do each activity "Reliably" See reliably here https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably The diary does not need to be complicated. You will need to include you D.O.B, National insurance number, The date and year of diary entry and if you want to be really detailed you can include the time of incident etc (that is not vital but it will show you the time of day when you are least likely to complete the activity reliably) read the activities on the PIP info website and look at the descriptors and see how they are worded. Then choose the descriptor that is applicable to you and your conditions.

Hope that helps

bluefox · November 2022

poppy123456 said:

bluefox said:

The lady said that to gain enhanced mobility you would need a lot of evidence, as it’s usually for dementia and learning disability rather than mental health conditions or non-epileptic seizures.

That's totally incorrect. Enhanced mobility for mental health can be awarded to those with OPD as well. However, if for the majority of time you're unable to go out then this would be 10 points for activity 1E, which is standard mobility.
GP letters are not the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you. Any other evidence that states how your conditions affect you is fine.
Just to add further, i would say it's very unlikely that the WCA review will be anytime soon.

Thank you, poppy.

Yeah I was a little surprised myself that she said that. I said to her that I must have someone present with me at all times for medical appointments (which is usually the only time I get out now). I said I must 100% absolutely have someone drive me there and back door-to-door because of
a) panic attacks
b) non-epileptic attacks
c) social phobia

but she still insisted it’s for dementia and learning disability. I said in the future I’d like to perhaps make more journeys but I’m not sure how that would fit into PIP.

bluefox · November 2022

nasturtium said:

Hello Bluefox
If you have someone who helps you or knows you well and sees you often then you can ask them to write you a supporting letter to describe the problems you have and the help they give you or you need but do not get. They would need to include how they know you and how often they see you.
Also a good way to show your problems is to keep a disability or mental health diary using the PIP descriptors on the PIP info site here https://pipinfo.net/#activities and write each day the problems you had with the applicable descriptors that apply to you. Keep the diary for 7-10 days and this will show you what problems you have each day and it will give you an idea of the problems you have on the majority of days (more than 50% of the time) In the diary describe what happened and give details of any witnesses and the consequences. You can use the diary then to build up your claim and use it as evidence to backup your claim. Remember you need to do each activity "Reliably" See reliably here https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably The diary does not need to be complicated. You will need to include you D.O.B, National insurance number, The date and year of diary entry and if you want to be really detailed you can include the time of incident etc (that is not vital but it will show you the time of day when you are least likely to complete the activity reliably) read the activities on the PIP info website and look at the descriptors and see how they are worded. Then choose the descriptor that is applicable to you and your conditions.
Hope that helps

That’s wonderful and helpful, thank you. Especially the diary. That’s a brilliant thing to use. Can this be used for ESA too?

nasturtium · November 2022

bluefox said:

That’s wonderful and helpful, thank you. Especially the diary. That’s a brilliant thing to use. Can this be used for ESA too?

Yes it can be used for ESA to show the daily problems you have. Esa have different descriptors and activities so just make sure it does not contradict your evidence with ESA.

The advice site for ESA https://wcainfo.net

Activities for ESA https://wcainfo.net/#activities

[Deleted User] · November 2022

bluefox said:

poppy123456 said:

bluefox said:

The lady said that to gain enhanced mobility you would need a lot of evidence, as it’s usually for dementia and learning disability rather than mental health conditions or non-epileptic seizures.

That's totally incorrect. Enhanced mobility for mental health can be awarded to those with OPD as well. However, if for the majority of time you're unable to go out then this would be 10 points for activity 1E, which is standard mobility.
GP letters are not the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you. Any other evidence that states how your conditions affect you is fine.
Just to add further, i would say it's very unlikely that the WCA review will be anytime soon.

Thank you, poppy.

Yeah I was a little surprised myself that she said that. I said to her that I must have someone present with me at all times for medical appointments (which is usually the only time I get out now). I said I must 100% absolutely have someone drive me there and back door-to-door because of
a) panic attacks
b) non-epileptic attacks
c) social phobia

but she still insisted it’s for dementia and learning disability. I said in the future I’d like to perhaps make more journeys but I’m not sure how that would fit into PIP.

If you think you can make journeys then you should, don't deprive yourself of going out just because it might effect your PIP award. That could be seen by some as a bit morally suspect. If you can do things then definitely do them.

bluefox · November 2022

KerryBemmy said:

bluefox said:

poppy123456 said:

bluefox said:

The lady said that to gain enhanced mobility you would need a lot of evidence, as it’s usually for dementia and learning disability rather than mental health conditions or non-epileptic seizures.

That's totally incorrect. Enhanced mobility for mental health can be awarded to those with OPD as well. However, if for the majority of time you're unable to go out then this would be 10 points for activity 1E, which is standard mobility.
GP letters are not the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you. Any other evidence that states how your conditions affect you is fine.
Just to add further, i would say it's very unlikely that the WCA review will be anytime soon.

Thank you, poppy.

Yeah I was a little surprised myself that she said that. I said to her that I must have someone present with me at all times for medical appointments (which is usually the only time I get out now). I said I must 100% absolutely have someone drive me there and back door-to-door because of
a) panic attacks
b) non-epileptic attacks
c) social phobia

but she still insisted it’s for dementia and learning disability. I said in the future I’d like to perhaps make more journeys but I’m not sure how that would fit into PIP.

If you think you can make journeys then you should, don't deprive yourself of going out just because it might effect your PIP award. That could be seen by some as a bit morally suspect. If you can do things then definitely do them.

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately for me there’s a lot of fear and apprehension when I try to leave the house and usually when I do, even for a medical appointment, I’m completely exhausted when I get back.

Though I don’t agree with the morally suspect. There’s a difference between wanting to be able to do things and doing them. Maybe I used poor word choice. For the foreseeable future I will always need someone with me, regardless if I’m in my “fear of going out mode” or “trying to attempt to leave the house”.

I had my driving license taken off me and I can longer use public transport. So I do need help getting around.

My ambition and goal is to be able to live independently again. But I know it’s going to take psychotherapy, CBT and importantly time to address the psychological barriers.

bluefox · November 2022

poppy123456 said:

bluefox said:

The lady said that to gain enhanced mobility you would need a lot of evidence, as it’s usually for dementia and learning disability rather than mental health conditions or non-epileptic seizures.

That's totally incorrect. Enhanced mobility for mental health can be awarded to those with OPD as well. However, if for the majority of time you're unable to go out then this would be 10 points for activity 1E, which is standard mobility.
GP letters are not the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to know how your conditions affect you. Any other evidence that states how your conditions affect you is fine.
Just to add further, i would say it's very unlikely that the WCA review will be anytime soon.

For future reference:

Poppy, I saw on one of the threads on MSE where a man had 1E and he was eventually given 1F due to mental health reasons. You was in that thread.

Is it true that if you regularly need someone with you on a journey, that would score 1F rather than 1E?

calcotti · November 2022

bluefox said:
Is it true that if you regularly need someone with you on a journey, that would score 1F rather than 1E?

We have gone over this numerous times in previous days.

If on the majority of days you cannot go out then you get 1E (regardless of whether or not, when you do go out, you need someone with you).

If on the majority of days you can go out but need someone with you to do so you get 1F.

bluefox · November 2022

calcotti said:

bluefox said:
Is it true that if you regularly need someone with you on a journey, that would score 1F rather than 1E?

We have gone over this numerous times in previous days.

If on the majority of days you cannot go out then you get 1E (regardless of whether or not, when you do go out, you need someone with you).

If on the majority of days you can go out but need someone with you to do so you get 1F.

Firstly, I know I’m a bloody pain to you and poppy. But please remember you’re helpful and part of my condition is that things don’t necessarily sink in.

Thank you for your reply, calcotti.

I have seen a thread on MSE forums which Poppy was in but a gentleman had 1E and the OP said he’s actually got better but he still needed his wife on all journeys and they were eventually awarded 1F.

It’s a really strange and contradictory one. I told PIP I leave the house 2-3 times a week but there’s a lot of pushing and encouraging and I avoid crowds, public transport and have been banned from driving due to the non-epileptic seizures. Struggle to survive more than 15 minutes in a shop and end up leaving without what I went in for (which they said isn’t an acceptable standard) and I have occasions of up to weeks or months of not leaving at all.

I was awarded 1E (standard mobility) but contradictory if I started to make more journeys I could be awarded 1F. But obviously I would need to evidence why I still need someone to accompany me on all journeys. But when you suffer panic attacks and have a lanyard for non-epileptic seizures for strangers. I absolutely could not be without someone accompanying me. My partner and friends/family know the do’s and don’ts with my seizures. I could end up in an ambulance without them etc and that would be stressful in itself for anyone with NEAD.

poppy123456 · November 2022

I may well have commented on that thread you mention but this persons conditions are likely to be completely different to yours. Their conditions could have changed now so they are able to go out the majority of the time with another person.

However, as you have mentioned many times on various threads of yours that you are unable to go out the majority of the time at the moment so 1E will still apply to you. 2 or 3 times a week is not the majority of the days.

If in the future you do start going out more, for the majority of the days and you need someone with you then yes you maybe entitled to 1F.

bluefox · November 2022

Thank you, poppy and calcotti.

You two do an amazing job on here. As well as all the other wonderful Scope staff. I don’t know where I’d be without the support of this community.

Much love, bluefox.

Tori_Scope · November 2022

Thank you for the kind words @bluefox

I'm sure they'll mean a lot to poppy123456 and calcotti!

poppy123456 · November 2022

That's very kind of you, thank you

calcotti · November 2022

bluefox said:..It’s a really strange and contradictory one...I was awarded 1E (standard mobility) but contradictory if I started to make more journeys I could be awarded 1F. But obviously I would need to evidence why I still need someone to accompany me on all journeys.

It really isn't contradictory. The decision is made by looking at
i) whether you can or cannot go out on the majority of days. If you can't you get 1E, if you can you don't get 1E so they then need to look at
ii) If you go out on the majority of days do you need someone to got with you. If you do you get 1F.

nasturtium · November 2022

calcotti said:

It really isn't contradictory. The decision is made by looking at
i) whether you can or cannot go out on the majority of days. If you can't you get 1E, if you can you don't get 1E so they then need to look at
ii) If you go out on the majority of days do you need someone to got with you. If you do you get 1F.

So after reading that it occured to me that someone who suffers from agoraphobia and cannot get out would score 10 points for 1E then if they start to go out and build up confidence but are only able to do that with someone with them for support they would be entitled to 1F which is 12 points.

I thought it would have been the other way around. (Or I might be reading into things wrongly)

calcotti · November 2022

No you’ve read it right.

bluefox · November 2022

Hello,

Does anyone know where to find a good diary for PIP?

Should it be done over 7 days or 14 days etc?

calcotti · November 2022

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice (public)/pip-diary.pdf

Timescale will depend on how your difficulties fluctuate. You want a timescale that reflects this.

bluefox · November 2022

Is it true that with seizures you don’t have to be affected 50% of the time?

I’m hearing this is the case for epilepsy but not sure about NEAD.

Collecting evidence for a review

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