UPPER TRIBUNAL - I DID THE PROCESS !! ASK ME

bobabubbles21

I don’t see many people or stories about upper tribunal,I took my case to upper tribunal,if anybody wants to ask me anything feel free,your welcome

bobabubbles21

you know when you just know the system failed you right from the beginning,you get that gut instinct that this needs an end result and a positive one for that matter,iv been told people rarely take it to higher tribunal,I didn’t actually know this.

When you have a tribunal hearing and it’s refused based on Lies,not looking at evidence and asking irrelevant questions not related to disability then you have to put full force into everything,I received help on statement of reason,I was approved for upper tribunal and they decided I can have a new hearing,Honestly if you truly belive that they have made error in law you can request a copy of the outcome and cheak why they refused you,if at any point in a tribunal you feel they have done wrong take it to upper ,

Even if you take it to UPPER T if they find sufficient findings that the appellant is correct and the tribunal failed to do Xyz they sent me a letter no need to go to upper tribunal and gave me a new hearing except when it goes to upper tribunal and they offer a new hearing the Dwp can not challenge the new tribunal decision.
were as a tribunal that people go to after an MR that can be challenged in the 28days , if your case has gone to upper T and been approved for a new hearing and it goes in your favour the Dwp can not over turn it.

Hope that all makes sense , just a small amount of nightmare I went through

Jimm_Scope

We don't get to hear much about Upper Tribunals as they don't happen as often. So it's nice to hear from someone with experience of them. Can I ask if you're getting any support for going through it from an adviser? If so how helpful have they been?

bobabubbles21

@Jimm_Scope i have a advocate who specialises in this field and knows all the laws and regulation and human act right ect,and legal side of things,

And also he knows I have very sufficient backed up evidence to relates to my conditions.

He is very good and was great at my tribunal he explained that having another tribunal will impact my mental health and physical because when I’m stressed it my fibromyalgia that flares up.

He said this is going to once again 3rd time put a strain on me,

Anyway let’s see what happens next.

I would say if anyone has ever been refused pip at tribunal for reasons that error in law and you feel it wasn’t fair or they have asked you irrelevant things take it to upper tribunal , they themselves with approve it but they just do the hearing at a tribunal and the good thing is Dwp can not overturn a decision in the upper tribunal circumstances.

Il keep you updated on what happens next.

bobabubbles21

I quoted they themselves will approve it “ I mean by this they will approve it if the errors of law are found,just to correct that

bobabubbles21

and I mean approve a new hearing if error of law found,not approve the benefit just clear that up

cay1966

Hi

I'm waiting on a phone call from welfare rights to help with my applying to upper tier tribunal.

I don't explain things too well but basically I've had anxiety and depression for over 25 years since husband died at 28. Been on lots of different medications, tried counsellors , talking changes, commity psychiatric nurses. Have recently been referred as had an assessment for autism and adhd. Been referred for further assessments as man I saw states he felt I had masked autism from being a kid. I've always struggled socially and struggle with all relationships.

I also have severe obstructive sleep apnea stopping breathing 77 times per hour. I struggle to tolerate a cpap machine as I've had insomnia for many years and I end up lying awake with the mask on which is really uncomfortable.

I also have anaemia, going between iron deficient anaemia and after taking ferrous fumetate back to being anaemic. Had some tests ie ct scan of bowel but have never received any results. Secretary says consultant discharged me but doctors and myself received no letter with results.

My symptoms for all of the above include tiredness, brain fog, forgetfulness irritability, low mood, no confidence or motivation. Not interested in any aspect of hobbies, going out etc.

I sent in over 100 pages of evidence. My review information was sent in 2022. I was on low rate care. . My review phonecall was 18 months later. Stayed same so I did a Mr, stayed same. Waited 15 months for a tribunal. My daughter helped me with this because of my struggles with communications.

My tribunal took place about 10 days ago. It was one of the worst things I've gone through. I was told my daughter could not talk just support me. After an hour of questions from judge and a doctor I burst into tears, gave my phone to daughter as couldn't do anymore. I was hysterical, shouted obscenities at them whilst my daughter was trying to calm me and apologise to the people at other end of phone. I do speak before I think but these people made me feel absolutely.terrible. I was sick twice. My daughter explained I couldn't carry on with the call and requested to give them some information which they listened to.

Obviously my award stayed the same. They basically said they couldn't award anymore because I care for my grown up daughter with learning disabilities and they said that as I encourage her to eat and make herself cereal this conflicts my case. I just have no motivation to get dressed , eat or go out. I can't remember taking my medicines. I no longer cook as I've got burns all over my arms fro. Previous attempts. I forget if oven is on and used to constantly set fire alarm off . My other daughter comes and makes my daughter with learning disabilities a hot meal every night. I claim carers for lynsey as a lot of her issues are she has lots of issues with anxiety , nightmares, needs constant reassurance, has a stoma which she can't do herself. I've looked after her all my life but it felt like the tribunal people were accusing me of fraud for claiming carers.

Can anyone advise whether I've got a case for upper tribunal , whether there were any errors you can see by what I've said.

So sorry for long post

Thanks in advance

Adrian_Scope

Good afternoon @cay1966, I'm sorry to hear how difficult your tribunal experience was.

Unfortunately Upper Tier Tribunals are a bit out of our expertise as we're not able to give legal advice and you can only appeal to an upper tribunal on an error of law.

Have Welfare Rights given you an idea of how long it might be for them to get back to you?

cay1966

Hi thanks for your reply. Welfare rights left a voicemail on Wednesday saying they would call on Friday gone but they didn’t so I rang them and asked them to call me back so hopefully won’t be long.

bobabubbles21

@cay1966
so from what your saying is that you feel like the panel in court accused you of fraud for claiming for your daughter.

Did they actually accuse you,what words did they use ?

Did they ask you questions irrelevant to your disability ?

Once welfare have helped you with the next steps it will then be requested to upper tribunal that’s if any error in law have been found.

It depends what your outcome letter states and go by that,

Anything that they said to you that wasn’t maybe relevant.

With my case the error of law was that they made a refusal decision without even looking at my actual evidence.

Infact they found many error in law so I was allowed to have a new hearing at tribunal so it didn’t have to go to upper tribunal in the end.

You can’t take it to upper tribunal because your not happy with the decision.

It has to purely be on the basis of error in law,so some research in the mean time on it till welfare can get back to you and help.

cay1966

Hi

Thankyou for your reply.
I feel like they didn’t look at all my evidence and take it into consideration.

They also didn’t take into account my daughter was my representative and wouldn’t let her help with any of the questions which I read she should have been able to represent me if she’s a representative.

Obviously if welfare rights ring and they say there’s no errors of law then there’s nothing I can do.

Thanks again or your advice

cay1966

Hi

Thankyou for your reply.
I feel like they didn’t look at all my evidence and take it into consideration.

They also didn’t take into account my daughter was my representative and wouldn’t let her help with any of the questions which I read she should have been able to represent me if she’s a representative.

Obviously if welfare rights ring and they say there’s no errors of law then there’s nothing I can do.

Thanks again or your advice

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/915719#Comment_915719

A representative or someone that's with you can't usually speak on your behalf. This is because they want to hear from you in your own words exactly how your conditions affect you. Sometimes they may ask the person that's with you if they want to add something at the end of the hearing.

The only time a person can speak on your behalf is if you have an official appointee that has been set up by DWP.

cay1966

Sorry if I got it wrong, I usually do. I read the above online and thought she could speak. I didn't expect her to answer all the questions just to be able to add on to them.

Thankyou for your response

poppy123456

Usually they can’t, apart from adding something at the end, if they are asked. What website was that screenshot from? It looks like scope?

Jellihead

Jellihead

Jellihead

Hi all,

Sorry I accidentally posted nothing above??

I applied for Attendance Allowance as my osteoarthritis was really bad in my fingers and I find it difficult to open most jars, tins, milk bottle tops, especially anything with those stupid pull off tabs, made of plastic which I can't grip.

I am a full time carer for my daughter who has Downs syndrome and is under a specialist team within NHS for her mental health problems. Thank fully she likes cooking and is able to help me to open the various items above, though even she struggles and she is strong!

As I am over 65 and in receipt of State Pension I was advised to contact Age UK, who contacted me and filled in the forms necessary to apply. It was refused. So was the Mandatory Reconsideration. Age UK do not support you after MR. So I was advised to go to Citizens Advice. They applied on my behalf. But were not able to attend the tribunal.

There was a Judge, someone from DWP, someone representing a Disability Group, and a Doctor.

The woman from disability was rude, asked why I didn't wear tights, said I should buy front fastening bras and to use long handled scissors to cut my toe nails! She was rude, insulting and clearly had no knowledge of osteoarthritis.

I was refused again. So I went to the Upper Tribunal, again without any representation. The one Judge who finally decided my case was in an office alone and I couldn't see her face throughout the hearing. Needless to say I did not get Attendance Allowance.

I have not applied again as the whole experience was soul destroying and I cannot put myself through that again. Also I believe that they were not really interested in my situation, at all and it felt as if they had been told to not agree to AA anymore as some of the people that I know who do receive AA, not many, are more able than me. But they are also older. I think the previous government did not want to help the next generation of the elderly as they had already spent our money!!