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Declaring Savings/U.C Reviews

charlie72

I have just had to declare my savings are above the 6k limit allowed in my U.C journal. Does this mean they will instantly message me to have a review like being flagged or something? Is it just totally random like DWP reckon, or will they now think i'm hiding something and want to see my bank details etc?

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Comments

anisty

You might be called into your local job centre with 3 months' bank statements and savings statements but it's nothing to worry about.

They just take a photocopy and send you on your way. Then, there's a £4.35 deduction made for every £250 (or part thereof) you have above the 6k limit.

If you have £6150, you will lose £4.35 from your next payment.

If you have £6900, it will be £17.40 off. If that makes sense?

OverlyAnxious

Hi,

I've had to change my savings with UC 3 or 4 times so far (both up and down). Never got a message in the journal or been reviewed or asked to provide statements.

It seems to all be done automatically in my case. The next UC statement shows the new deduction for savings.

charlie72

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977388#Comment_977388

Thanks for that, It's the first time Iv'e changed my savings as I didn't realise that any backdated payments are classed as capital after 12 months. I forgot to inform them so am panicking now incase they review me and claw back loads of money off me, I never genuinely knew that backdated benefit payments like LCWRA were classed as income/savings if over 6k after 12 months. I feel like some horrible criminal now, even though I thought I was always doing the right thing, hopefully they won't review me for a while as they usually ask for 4 months bank statements, then I'll be okay!!

anisty

@charlie72 - try to be calm as i think we are amongst many thousands confused about capital.

I myself am the appointee for my son's claim. I had declared all his savings on time but totally failed to realise that unspent money in my son's current account counted as capital. I should have been declaring almost every month but had no idea.

I updated capital near the beginning of my son's claim and was called in to show statements.

And again, just recently, and i was called in again after updating. I think if i had been declaring most months, as i should have, i would not have been called in. I just had no idea.

There will be overpayments in our case and it is really stressful waiting to see what they calculate but i will just need to wait and see (my son is oblivious to all this; he lacks capacity)

I feel like a criminal too as DWP use that horrid word 'fraud' for anyone who gets more benefit than they should.

I think we have to keep in mind that any horrible letters we get from DWP are generated by computer - a team of folks will have got together at some point and picked the wording to make us feel as if everyone but us has got things right. Just designed to make us panic!

We might be in a minority - but it is a minority of many thousands! Keep calm and take things step by step.

If it's any comfort, they were very nice to me at the job centre . . .

charlie72

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977418#Comment_977418

When should you update them again if your savings change, It says on Gov.uk only to inform them agatn of any significant changes. What does that mean, £250, £500, £1000, extra over a set time? Obviously peoples savings flutuate, mine do as I get LCWRA and standard rate of PIP, sometimes I might save a bit, Say you had £7000 in savings, when should I inform them again if it increases, it's very confusung and all new to me, I put a not in my journal for my case manager as I don't have a work coach, but not got back to me yet? Thanks for your help!!

charlie72

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977418#Comment_977418

How often do you have to update your savings? It says only when significant changes apply either lower or higher, is extra £250,£500,£1000, I know you have to declare earnings each month but apperantly not your savings.

anisty

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977510#Comment_977510

It's when it changes into a new £250 bracket. So if you had £6100 to start with, you would update when you go over 6350 (or drop below 6k again)

After 6350, you'd report again at below 6100, or over 6600.

anisty

Ps remember what we call savings, uc calls capital. This is where i went wrong.

I just did not think current acc balance counted. But, anything left unspent at the end of the assessment period after it's paid, counts.

In fact, the employer will often inform of earnings through hmrc (if employed) but the responsibility to update capital lies with the claimant.

My son's uc is in a mess as he lives at home, gets free bus travel, spends the odd few pounds here and there so his current acc balance was far too high.

I should think most claimants do spend all their money each month so this would not be a concern.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977526#Comment_977526

This isn't correct. It's every £250 or part thereof over £6,000 which means £6,001, £6,251, £6,501, £6,751, £7,001 etc etc.

Capital includes your money, regardless of where it is apart from your most recent benefits payments and any earnings you may have received. Those are not treated as capital until the end of the following assessment period after you receive them.

There are some disregards such as pension pots, if you're below state pension age, the home you live in, backpay for benefits owed, selling the home you live in and planning on buying another and the capital can be disregarded for 6 months sometimes longer but they would ask for proof that you're planning on buying another. There are some other disregards but it gets more complicated.

anisty

Ps - just noticed your example. If you have £7k in savings, you will have £17.40 deducted from your UC.

Now, as far as i understand it (and i have only learned this very recently so it might not be right)

IF you have any credit balance at all in your current account at the end of an assessment period, you would update again.

Because, say you had £15 in your current account at the end of an AP - your new capital is now £7015. (the 15 being part of £250 over your declared 7k)

If your current account went overdrawn the following month, you'd update yet again.

Otherwise, you would next update when capital hit £7251.

anisty

Oops! Think i cross posted with Poppy and it's too late to remove my post😬

Listen to Poppy on this one @charlie72 as I went wrong on my son's claim and I think i am starting to understand it but maybe not to the level to start advising others🤣

Forgive me please🙈

charlie72

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977546#Comment_977546

Thankyou, that's very helpful😊

charlie72

No, you were most helpful, thanks, I'm sure Poppy is correct on this, I'll report it after every AP when it reaches £250 or over. If I understood it correctly it's not each time you receive your benefits as you'll obviously have outgoings from it, so it's what's left at the end of the next period if it's £250 or over!! Hope I'm correct but i'm sure Poppy will correct me hopefully as it's quite confusing and my concentration is terrible, but thankyou so much.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977569#Comment_977569

You are correct here. Yes, it's very confusing and many people feel the same way.

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977563#Comment_977563

Aww there's nothing to forgive because you didn't do anything wrong.

charlie72

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977546#Comment_977546

I have just reported for the first time being over 6k, my next UC payment is end of February, so am I right in thinking I wait until the next AP after that if I have anything extra over £250? So if I declared say £7000 just now, got my UC payment in Feb, paid all my bills etc, how long do I wait before my next payment to declare that change? Sorry if I don't make sense, all I understand is my UC payments are worked out on the 12th and I get paid on the 18th if that's any help? Thanks for your help.

poppy123456

I don't understand why you reported the capital in the middle of your assessment period. If your payment is on the 18th of the month then your assessment periods will be 12th to 11th of every month. Entitlement to UC is based on your circumstances on the last day of each assessment period, which is 11th for you.

Your UC payment and any other income you receive is not treated as capital until the end of the following assessment period after you receive it.

The easiest way to do this is add together everything you have at the end of an assessment period. Total up all the income you've received in that period (including wages and benefits) Minus the income from the overall total. What you're left with is capital.

If you received any of the cost of living payments and your capital has never dropped below the total amount you received, it's disregarded indefinitely.

OverlyAnxious

It's not quite that simple unfortunately. You also have to add up all of the outgoings, and subtract those from the income, before deducting the income from the overall total.

For example, if you start with £7k savings, UC pays £1500, you spend £1000 on rent & bills, that will leave you with £7500 in the bank at the end. But using the equation above would leave you with £6000 capital…less than you started with. (£7500 end figure, minus £1500 UC income = £6000)

I can understand why they make the distinction between income & capital but it makes the capital calculation very complicated. Plus, it's even worse for those of us that get other benefits out of sync with UC, such as PIP every 4 weeks. And because it's technically the end of the next payment period, that adds further complication because you need to calculate it over two periods at a time. I would be interested to know whether the UC staff have a 'trick' for quickly calculating capital from bank statements accurately, or whether they just scan bank statements into a computer system which calculates it electronically in milliseconds.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977681#Comment_977681

It’s always going to be complicated which ever way you try to work it out. I don’t believe they have an automatic system which calculates bank statements electronically.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977716#Comment_977716

Lump sums for benefits owed are disregarded for 1 year from the date you receive payment into your bank.

As you said yourself your LA made an error which they later corrected.

letitbe

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/977709#Comment_977709

Im getting really confused by it all , I’m going to go over 6k in next few months and have to report it , I’m just going to put all my bank details on my UC journal and let them sort it out because I can’t deal with any of it.