PIP, DLA and AA
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dla to pip scared

ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
hello all i was on dla but got my form sent off for pip i sent in supporting letters from gp.ot.
our house has been adapted for stairlift bath rails toilet rails bath seats etc.
i have had arthiiirtis in both knees and right elbow i use a walker to get around yes I'm only 46 but have had to live with this pain for over 6 years,ive had injections in both knees but no good didn't work
the pain from the arthritis effects my hips and thighs it absoululty painful every day.
my question is I've read if  people use walkers etc to assemssnts they have deducted points because they use a aid my question is is this correct,becuase without  it i can't even walk every 2 steps i fall down is the new pip really has bad for genuine people that have really bad walking problems,
Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/33707/changing-from-dla-to-pip#EoUEssGOrSKmpVRI.99

Replies

  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi @ollieconure

    The rules for PIP are different to DLA. This means that some people have lost their mobility component when they had it previously with DLA.
    The rules for PIP state the different distances which people can 'move around' either aided or unaided. Depending on how far somebody can 'move around' aided or unaided, depends on how many points you score.
    So - yes aids can be taken into consideration when you walk. However, what is also important for the DWP to consider in their decision is whether you are able to 'move around' reliably. This means safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period.
    This 'test' must be considered when the DWP look at how far you can 'move around' with / without aids.
    Safely means for example if there is a danger of you tripping, falling, stumbling and there is a real possibility of this happening then this should be considered. Include examples in your form or additional evidence.
    An acceptable standard means being able to undertake the task to a 'good enough' standard that most people would be able to achieve.
    Repeatedly means can you repeat the task as often as is required and what is the effect if you had to repeat the task. If pain increases each time you walk to the point where you can no longer walk or the effects the next day are worse, then let them know.
    A reasonable time period means that the task of walking a certain distance shouldn't take more than twice as long as somebody without the disability. See the link below to Disability Rights factsheet. You can also see the points that are allocated for different walking distances.
    http://http//www.disabilityrightsuk.org/personal-independence-payment-pip
    Good luck with your claim

    Laura



    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • AndylovesGlady13AndylovesGlady13 Member Posts: 3 Listener
    I tried to go to disabilities fact sheet but it just says could not be found ? 
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    Hi Laura thank you for that the problem I have is without using a walking frame I can only walk 3 steps then my knees give way so if I didn't use the walker I could not get around even using the walker 3 steps I have the walker to stop me from going down to floor,even if I just go round to my back garden which is about half the length of a bus the pain from my knees to my thighs and hip is just like someone has put a dagger in both sides of my hips,and they are twisting them I hope this gives me my enached rate that pain is the same every day it gets me down,in fact there has been times I ring my doctors up begging for better pain relief,
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited May 2017
    @ollieconure

    At assessment you can say that you cannot walk more than a few steps unaided and not more than 20 metres even using a walker - and that you'd fall down without the walker after taking more than a few steps.  Emphasise all the pain you experience when walking even using a walker.

    There is a thread on the forum called 'How to prepare for a PIP assessment'.  It's probably several pages down.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi ollieconure,

    If using an aid (your walker) you could easily walk more than 200 metres with no problems then it's true you would get no points. However, in your case that is clearly not what's going on! You experience lots of pain when moving around and it also probably takes you much longer than it would someone without the disability. As Laura says, any distance you can move but which takes you more than twice than long as someone without your condition shouldn't be taken into account.

    At the assessment do as much as you can to explain what it feels like when you move around, how long it takes you, and whether you have to stop to recover so that you are not able to walk certain distances continuously.  It's also important, as Matilda says, to think about distances - but if you are in that amount of pain, it may be arguable that you can't move more than 20 metres, even using the walker, because it would take you such a long time.

    I hope this helps.

    Will 
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    I'm confused now to either go using my walker or go showing them how I struggle to walk with my career helping me
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @ollieconure, I think Will is saying it's OK to use your walker as you clearly need it provided you tell the assessor what problems you have walking even with your aid as it'll be called. If you were able to walk reasonably well and further than the criteria for the benefit with the walking aid that's when the problems would occur. You will have to be very clear on how far you can't walk not what you can and that it takes you more than twice as long as an able bodied person because you have to keep stopping. You are also entitled to see the computer screen and correct what is written in case it's not what you are saying. I didn't know about this and ended up with a lot of lies written about me. I don't want to scare you but forewarned is forearmed. I wouldn't advise going with no walking aid.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Tell the assessor you need a walker to take more than a few steps but you can't walk farther than 20 meters using a walker before you need to stop and rest for a minute or more.

     The assessor will watch you walk from the waiting area to the interview room and back again.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    ollieconure - sorry for any confusion. Definitely use your walker. No question. Just do whatever you would normally do.

    Explain that even with the walker you are very limited in how far you can go, and tell them about the pain you experience, and as Matilda advises, make sure you tell them how long it takes you before you have to stop.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Member Posts: 64 Courageous
    thank you for that i was dreading having to use the 1 walking stick i had because i dont have 1 good leg the arthritis is in both my knees so i was dreading using the 1 stick because i also have arthritis in my right elbow and I'm right handed so my leg hand holding a stick is more like a chocolate fireguard useless at least with my walker that the ot got me i do tend to lean on it for when i have to stop 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello jjdd70

    Please keep us posted on your assessment and the outcome of your PIP claim.

    Regards

    Maria 
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    hi again had assessment on the 30th may haven't heard anything yet, only thing i got was a letter from carers to my husband saying that my dla is due to finish on the 4th july and that my carers would finish, and if any thing changes to contact them, my question is is this letter because my original dla finishes soon,and its telling my husband this,becuase I've not had any outcome yet from my assessment for pip.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi ollieconure

    It could be. It depends on whether your DLA was time limited and due to end on 4 July. If not, then we would not expect your DLA to stop until after your PIP claim is decided.

    I hope you get your PIP decision soon and that it is the outcome you expect. If not do let us know and we will try to help with the next steps.

    David
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    [email protected] Have you rung DWP to ask for your assessment report? If not you need to do that. When you get it you'll see what the assessor wrote about you and suggested scores for the PIP descriptors. This will give you a good idea what your award will be.  
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    hi all got my design today they have awarded standard daily 10 points and standard mobility 10 points because i have arthritis in both knees i told her at assessment that i could not use the cooker saftley because i use the walker for support i cant use cooker because i use walker for support i could not get down to oven and back up carrying food I've only got 2 hands and using pans on cooker is not advised due to if i hold onto units for support and i had a pan in my hand and my arthritis gives way and i have the pan she has not took this into consideration, only that 2 points for using a aid to eat food, she says she cannot take into consideration about bending my knees. eheh.also she states that the waiting room to consolation room and back is 10 metres which she observed me doing this at very slow pace i told her every few steps how knackered i was and kept resting ,i do believe i should have my enanched rate for mobility or at least enhanced for daily due to not been able to use cooker
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @ollieconure Is it your award letter you got today or is it the assessor's report? If you haven't got your Assessor's report you'll still need to ring for it if you want to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration. 
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    award letter i got today, i did ring today and they said a case worker would be in touch on monday with regards to what I've said so ill wait and see what they say, also while I'm on line i got a letter also from jcp we are a married couple with a child 13 years old my husband is my carer so he claimed income support since december last year i got a work focused interview whats that about I'm on pip have a carer have they made a mistake, my husband  carer had a phone interview from jcp about 3 months ago to see how he was getting on etc anyone know 
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    it was awarded until 25th may 2020 but it says they will contact me on the 25th may 2019 
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    I've contacted them today beau`se i cannot use cooker i only got 2 points for using aid whats that about i told her how can someone with arthritis hold onto furniture in kitchen to support them selfs to stop my self falling down told her i cannot use cooker or microwave because I'm busy holding myself up using furniture etc and to be able to hold a hot pan whilst grabbing onto units that is not a safety thing i can not do i have arthritis in my right hand I'm right handed so how was i expected to also bend down when i clearly cannot get up because my legs lock up and be able to have a hot tray or food from oven in my hand whilst trying to get back up from a bent position its mad
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @ollieconure You're not alone. They said the same about me being able to cook just using aids (a perching stool) when I had DLA for needing help with preparing food given by a tribunal in 2010. I haven't made a miraculous recovery since then. They claim the criteria is different but both benefits require the chopping/peeling/slicing to be done the same way and the risk of harm is the same. I know it doesn't help saying you're not alone but the only thing you can do is exactly what you're doing to tell them they're wrong. Are you doing a Mandatory Reconsideration? If so try and get more evidence if you can and write all that you told them on the phone but have a look at the PIP descriptors for all the activities, not just cooking, and make sure you aren't risking losing what you've already got. Send a strong argument to have the one's you don't agree with changed and remember you can carry on doing that even if they reject your MR right up to going to appeal they can still change your points. You can book a call back from a case worker anytime to talk to them again right up to going to appeal this will keep your claim open and being assessed. Good Luck.
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    hi wildlife i rang them on friday and explained this about the cooking so they said a case worker would ring me on monday which she did she asked what i thought was wrong and i told her about the cooker because on my decision letter assessor says she cannot give me points on not been able to bend?so i told the case worker this and she just said.if i get the doctor to write in his or her own words how someone with arthritis in both knees and right arm how safe they thought it would be but it had to be in doctors own words, not what i tell him i cannot do.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    BenefitsTrainingCo  Can you help here please. @ollieconure I really feel for you it's like bashing your head against a brick wall. My Doctor told me that DWP had been told by the government to believe what claimants tell them to save the Doctors having to write so many letters. They have far more urgent things to do with their time than writing benefit letters. I'm sorry I don't know the answer. Hopefully someone will try to help on here soon...        
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi ollieconure

    If you think the decision is wrong you should ask for a mandatory reconsideration which you must usually do within a month of the date on the decision letter. The Disability Rights UK factsheet here gives some helpful advice on how to do this, it's page 27. Many people have to continue with a further appeal and this is described from page 29.

    You should have a good look at the assessment criteria starting on page 32 as well as the reliably criteria on page 6 of the factsheet above.

    If you have some cooking ability whilst using aids but there are things you cannot do such as moving hot pans because it is not safe then it may be that you qualify for four points under activity 1E. If it is not safe for you to do any cooking then it may be 1F 8 points.

    Case law has established that the effects of pain should be considered when considering the distance someone can walk to an "acceptable standard" (under the reliably criteria). The reference for this is CPIP/665/2016 which you can see in full here. And so if you experience considerable pain when walking this needs to be explained very clearly.

    David

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • ollieconureollieconure Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    thank you david
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