Universal Credit - LCW - Tribunal case law?

louangel311

This may sound like a bizarre question - but here goes!

I am due to have a WCA for Universal Credit (the last time I had one of these was 31/12/2016 and I was receiving ESA.) 

Every single WCA I have had for PIP and ESA has ended up in a Tribunal

So, I'm not holding out much hope that my next one will be any different. 

As UC is a relatively new welfare benefit - and there is so little UC Tribunal case law - if a UC case gets to the Tribunal stage - do they use ESA case law precedents to come to a decision?

I know that the UC and ESA regulations are more or less the same when it comes to LCW.

Thanks 

janer1967

@louangel311 Hello and welcome to the community, I am a community champion here. I' sorry I am unable to advise on your specific question, I have been through a UC WCA tribunal but I don't know what regulations are used to make decisions. I'm sure someone on here will be able to advise you. I wish you luck with your assessment and hopefully it wont come to tribunal. 

poppy123456

HI and welcome,

The WCA for UC is the exactly the same as it was for ESA. Just so that others are not confused the PIP assessment is not a work capability assessment.

See here for the descriptors for both LCW and LCWRA for UC. https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Your-Situation/Ill-Injured-or-Disabled/Universal-Credit-Capability-for-work-assessment

louangel311

Hi Poppy, thank you for that.

I did compare both WCA's but it still makes me wonder, if it does go to Tribunal - what case law the panel will look to as there is so little precedent?

Louise x

poppy123456

I don't know anything about case law, sorry. Although this will only apply at a Tribunal and as it's the assessment process at the moment, i'd advise you to concentrate on which group you think you should be placed into and your reasons why. I know you said you've always had to take it to Tribunal but this time could be different.

Good luck.

louangel311

Thanks Poppy, I know I must sound very negative but my experiences of the WCA have left me cynical.........awful experiences when they've written totally the opposite to what I've said x

poppy123456

You're welcome. I totally understand how difficult it is to put your last WCA assessments to the back of your mind. Concentrating on this one and you'll have a better chance this time. Please also remember that the PIP assessments are not WCA.

Do you know the reason why you were placed into the group you're in now? if that reason or reasons still apply then concentrate on those.

When i last had a WCA i knew i'd previously been placed into the Support Group through the mobilising descriptor so this is what i concentrated on. As it includes using a self propel wheelchair as well then i made sure i covered the reasons why i can't self propel as well at the reasons why i'm unable to walk the required distance unaided. I gave real life examples too, which really helped me. I was kept in the group for exactly the same reason as always.

louangel311

Thanks Poppy, I know that the PIP and WCA are different
I'm in the work related activity group - I lost my employment in 2012 through mental health issues which have not improved. I have Anxiety and Panic Disorder which also encompasses agoraphobia. I can't leave my home without being accompanied by my Mum and the only places I really go are to appointments. And I avoid people at all costs - social phobia - even family.
This hasn't changed since my last WCA in 2016........where the doctor still found me fit for work but a Tribunal overturned the DWP's decision.
Same with PIP - I currently have a case that is with the Upper Tribunal as the First Tier Tribunal seemed to totally ignore the case precedents and the statutory provisions. 
I have always felt that it goes against me that I can write well and coherently - I used to be a solicitor - and I don't feel the panels take my mental health issues and their effect seriously.
Which I've also stated in my WCA form!
I hope that makes sense!
Louise x

poppy123456

You're welcome,

Thanks for explaining that. It maybe that substantial risk applies to you, as most people with mental health qualify under this. Unless you scored points in other descriptors for LCW, which is also possible.

Anyway, good luck this time and i hope that once a decision is made, it's the correct one this time.

louangel311

Thanks Poppy, I will let you know the outcome and really appreciate your kindness xx

Joanne_Scope

Hi @louangel311,

You are right that there is very little case law at the moment but there is some on the RevenuesBenefits website if you want to have a read through it.
As you have a legal background you may find it useful to look at the guidance for HCP's who are carrying out the WCA. 
I hope you don't need it but if you have to go to appeal there is some useful information in there and links to the regulations.

louangel311

HI Joanne, thank you so much, I've looked at the UT case law on the Revenues Benefits website but there is no case law (so far) to do with LCW/LCWRA.
Can I ask please where I would find the HCP's guidance for WCA's as I've done numerous Google searches and can't find it!
Many thanks, Louise 

poppy123456

This maybe what you're looking for https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/777221/wca-handbook.pdf

louangel311

Bless you Poppy, I've been trawling, searching for this for ages!

Thanks, Louise 

poppy123456

You're very welcome.

Joanne_Scope

@louangel311,
Sorry, I should have put the link in!
Thanks @poppy123456