Pip hearing adjourned to obtain medical records

Kitty1

Hi there

i have just had my PIP appeal telephone hearing. I was awarded daily living and the lower mobility by DWP and I wanted to challenge the mobility as for over 10 years I have had high mobility DLA/PIP. I did have high care on DLA but that went to standard daily on PIP which I accepted. 

Straightaway, after the introductions they said that they were going to adjourn for me to get my medical notes. They also said it was a big bundle. She also said that I was asking for a lot. It was a three woman panel. 

I did send a lot of medical evidence but most of it was dated as I just manage my condition    as best I can. Obviously with COVID I have not had any referrals. I have asked but have been refused. I suffer from Chronic Hemiplegic migraine which presents as a stroke but I don’t get the head pain. The head pain is what people normally have the medication for. I have asked and been told that there is nothing to get rid of the aura. 

I put lots of examples in and added in stills from videos of my walking difficulties. 

I did ask if the Tribunal could access my most recent medical letter from my last hearing file as a copy wasn’t in the bundle and stupidly I didn’t keep a copy as I gave it to the Tribunal at my last hearing in 2018. It was from The National migraine centre who diagnosed chronic migraine. Previously to that I saw a private Neurologist as the NHS one was rubbish and he diagnosed me with HM. He was a professor and I sent a copy of that letter.  I also sent copies of letters from my two thyroid doctors and my GP report all who made mention that I had difficulty walking to the clinic room and one examined me he describes the hemiparesis. They are quite dated though. Apart from the migraine clinic I don’t have any up to date evidence. 

The last HCP in person assessment report notes weakness and not able to walk whereas the most recent one was done over the telephone with an assessor who told me the answers he was going to put and I gave up! 

They asked if I wanted an in person hearing next time which I do as then at least they will see my walking difficulties on the day. 

But I am so weary and feel like I have waited all this time and now I’ve got to start gathering evidence and waiting again. I was considering just giving up the appeal and accepting the lower award. I have won my last two appeals based on the same medical evidence. I don’t think that there is anything different in my file as I always copy all my letters and have sent them everything relevant. They have got letters going back to 2006. 

Has anyone had this? And what does it mean? Thanks, I’m feeling a bit fed up. I waited all day anxiously. 

Alex_Alumni

Hello @Kitty1 thanks for reaching out and explaining everything in such detail.

I'm afraid I don't have the experience of a tribunal to share with you, but to help our members find your post I've marked it as unanswered, so hopefully they can contribute soon.

I can understand why you're feeling fed up, it's a difficult process to manage at the best of times. We'll do what we can to support you, so I hope our members can help to reassure you or help make things clearer.

If you have any questions in the meantime don't hesitate to ask.

Alex

Kitty1

Thank you Alex. You’re right, it is a stressful process. I was looking forward to the end.

poppy123456

I would start by getting some expert advice from an agency near you. Although you were awarded previously by a Tribunal it doesn't mean the Tribunal will make the same decision again. Start here. https://advicelocal.uk/

Kitty1

Thank you Poppy. 

AndrewHall

Kitty1 said:

Hi there

i have just had my PIP appeal telephone hearing. I was awarded daily living and the lower mobility by DWP and I wanted to challenge the mobility as for over 10 years I have had high mobility DLA/PIP. I did have high care on DLA but that went to standard daily on PIP which I accepted. 

Straightaway, after the introductions they said that they were going to adjourn for me to get my medical notes. They also said it was a big bundle. She also said that I was asking for a lot. It was a three woman panel. 

I did send a lot of medical evidence but most of it was dated as I just manage my condition    as best I can. Obviously with COVID I have not had any referrals. I have asked but have been refused. I suffer from Chronic Hemiplegic migraine which presents as a stroke but I don’t get the head pain. The head pain is what people normally have the medication for. I have asked and been told that there is nothing to get rid of the aura. 

I put lots of examples in and added in stills from videos of my walking difficulties. 

I did ask if the Tribunal could access my most recent medical letter from my last hearing file as a copy wasn’t in the bundle and stupidly I didn’t keep a copy as I gave it to the Tribunal at my last hearing in 2018. It was from The National migraine centre who diagnosed chronic migraine. Previously to that I saw a private Neurologist as the NHS one was rubbish and he diagnosed me with HM. He was a professor and I sent a copy of that letter.  I also sent copies of letters from my two thyroid doctors and my GP report all who made mention that I had difficulty walking to the clinic room and one examined me he describes the hemiparesis. They are quite dated though. Apart from the migraine clinic I don’t have any up to date evidence. 

The last HCP in person assessment report notes weakness and not able to walk whereas the most recent one was done over the telephone with an assessor who told me the answers he was going to put and I gave up! 

They asked if I wanted an in person hearing next time which I do as then at least they will see my walking difficulties on the day. 

But I am so weary and feel like I have waited all this time and now I’ve got to start gathering evidence and waiting again. I was considering just giving up the appeal and accepting the lower award. I have won my last two appeals based on the same medical evidence. I don’t think that there is anything different in my file as I always copy all my letters and have sent them everything relevant. They have got letters going back to 2006. 

Has anyone had this? And what does it mean? Thanks, I’m feeling a bit fed up. I waited all day anxiously. 

Too much overthinking going on here. Better for you to concentrate on how you are restricted in your daily life than doing paper chasing. 
Getting PIP is always about presenting your case convincing using the descriptors. Why do you need reminding, assistane or to be supervised to do the activities?.  Answer these and you should be fine. 

Kitty1

Hi Andrew, 

Thanks for your reply. I really thought thought I did that in the form and the appeal. I used real life examples and noted any evidence and linked it to medical. I didn’t get a chance to say anything at hearing and I have to get my medical records now as it is directed by the Judge. I feel that this is a waste of time as there isn’t anything new in my file as I get copies of everything so they already have it all. All my medical evidence states ‘difficulty walking, unable to walk. Examined her today and she had left sided weakness in trunk and limbs, increased reflexes, eye does not converge,Two muscle tests showing problems with muscles, numerous letters from my Thyroid Consultant stating ‘she had difficulty walking to the clinic’ I think the problem is there is nothing dated after 2019 but then a lot of people could be in the same position due to COVID, surely they know that.  I am not sure what else I can do.

Kitty1

Just to say that the descriptor I was challenging was 11F. I got 12 points previously for reason of Hemiplegic migraine, although I know that means nothing this time around as my first tribunal I got maximum points for both moving around and planning a journey. 

I was challenging the fact that the ‘stroke like episodes’ can occur at any time without warning and render me incapacitated ( in the same way someone having a stroke would be) as I have motor loss, sensory and cognitive loss and speech and vision loss. 

I know that the tribunal can look at everything else but I was happy with the rest of the award and DWP’s response was that they agreed with the rest of the award. I felt that they hadn’t considered the cognitive effects as they mentioned walking was covered in the other descriptor. It’s really strange that if you are diagnosed with something they don’t take the literal symptoms of that condition into account. 

poppy123456

Kitty1 said:

 my first tribunal I got maximum points for both moving around and planning a journey. 

I'm very surprised you got that at a previous Tribunal, usually once they hit 12 points they stop because 12 points is what's needed for Enhanced, which is the maximum award anyway.

Kitty1 said:

 I used real life examples

Are you sure you gave real world incidents (examples) of exactly what happened the last time you attempted that activity? Or were they just assertions? There's a big difference between the two.

Can you tell us one of the real world incidents you used? This would help us know whether it was an incident or an assertion.

Kitty1

I described my visit where I went to the dentist and a HM hit. I sat in the dentist chair and described how I could not see or speak or move one side of my body. My partner had to help me. When the dentist asked me which tooth it was I couldn’t remember which one it was. I was out of it so he starting talking to my partner. I could hear his voice but not understand what he was saying. When I left I had to be helped to the car as I couldn’t walk. I described my limb movements. Ataxia and dragging my leg and scraping my toes. I described how people asked if I was ok and helped my partner. I described how my partner had to put my seatbelt on and close the car door and wipe the dribble from my mouth. 

One incident at Sainsburys I was at a till and one hit. I described not being able to continue the transaction as I became disoriented and confused and my son had to take over. 

I described how I was peeling potatoes one day and one hit. I could see the bin and kept looking at the peelings and the bin but was so confused that I couldn’t work out how to get the peelings in to the bin. When my partner came in I was crying and confused. He had to take me to lie down and undress me as I couldn’t move my left side. 

I described how in the past, a HM hit me whilst I was on my own in town and my partner had driven the car through the pedestrian walkway in town when I couldn’t walk. 

Do you think these would have been ok? It’s difficult I guess. Thanks for helping though. 🙂

Kitty1

Another one was when I had to have a heart scan and had difficulty walking. By the time I got there I was late for my appointment but the consultant still saw me. I had to have my partners help to undress and when he needed me to move he had to ask my partner to move me into the correct position as I was out of it by then and left side was stiff as a board. 

poppy123456

That seems ok to me. Do you get a warning before any of this happens because that's one reason they could question some activities.

Kitty1

Not really. It all happens in minutes and gets deeper. 

Alex_Alumni

Hello @Kitty1 I just wanted to check in and see how you've been getting on since you last posted?

Kitty1

Thank you that’s very kind of you.

 I have received the Tribunal Order which states it needs GP notes from the last year only. I have only had telephone appointments and no access to Consultants in that period much like the rest of us due to COVID. 

However, I will comply and the National Migraine Centre have offered a telephone appointment which will hopefully help at the next hearing. 

Hope every one is doing well. Thank you for the support

poppy123456

Did you get some expert advice before proceeding any further? because you received a warning that you could lose everything you already have. If you haven’t then I’d advise you to do that. 

Kitty1

No but I will do. Thanks for the advice. 

Tori_Scope

Have you been able to find any advice local to you @kitty1? 

Kitty1

We have a CAB and a Law Centre in town. I had the Law Centre’s help for my last hearing. I am going to try to find the paperwork with the lady who helped me. Thanks 😊 

Tori_Scope

Great @Kitty1 Let us know how you get on!

Kitty1

Will do