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Issues with PIP decision (mental health)

66Mustang

Sorry that this is a rather rambling, long message but I wanted to get everything down. I don’t really have a specific question but I feel I may have been treated unfairly and am looking to see what people think, as well as for any general advice.

I have just had a decision for my PIP. Previously, I was on the enhanced daily living component and the standard mobility component. This has just been cut to the standard daily living component (8 points) and nil mobility (0 points!).

I suffer from a few diagnosed conditions: autism, OCD, anxiety, obsessional thoughts and depression.

For daily living, I agree with some of what they decided. However looking at their report I scored 0 for some things even though I feel I meet the descriptors for scoring points. I intend to challenge this.

However, scoring zero for mobility is what most surprised me - last time I scored 10 (I believe this should have been 12 but it was at the time when you couldn’t score 12 for a mental condition - this has changed now) and my condition hasn’t gotten any better since then. My situation is that I cannot go out of the house to make any journey (familiar or unfamiliar) unaccompanied - without my parents, I am housebound. Furthermore, I absolutely cannot use any public transport under any circumstances. All of this was explicitly stated both on my claim form and at my interview.

In spite of this, the decision letter states “I decided you can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided.” This is categorically untrue, and made me think they may have mixed my forms up with someone else’s!

The other issue I have is with the wording in their report. I initially asked for a home visit but was declined as they demanded more evidence from a doctor that I needed one, but I could not get a doctor’s appointment in time. So, I spent several weeks psyching myself up for the interview and managed to attend it, having been taken there and accompanied the whole time by a parent. It took huge effort to attend while retaining my dignity and composure - I was incredibly anxious throughout the entire interview. However, in the report it was stated, “you were not observed to be anxious, agitated or tense” and “there is no evidence of overwhelming psychological distress”. I was upset by the assessor’s view which, seemingly, was that I did not appear distressed, so I wasn’t distressed. The view that physical appearance has this much bearing in relation to a mental disorder seems discriminatory towards someone with a hidden disability. Effectively they are saying, “you didn’t look unwell” which I find very unfair, and sounds like something that someone would say in the 1970s, not 2019.

Just wondering what you think? Am I right to ask for a mandatory reconsideration or do you think I am being unreasonable?

Thanks.

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Comments

OverlyAnxious

66Mustang said:

OverlyAnxious - I agree, it is very bizarre you can score more points for going out accompanied, than not going out at all! The only reason I could think of was that PIP is based on how much help you need, and someone who is able to go out with support obviously needs some help whereas someone who is unable to go out at all won’t be getting that help.

One thing. The report states that they consider my needs based on the majority of days. The thing is my being able to attend this appointment was an absolute one off - not the norm - it took me weeks to get ready to be able to go and I certainly wouldn’t be able to do so on the majority of days. I don’t know how they could say I could do it the majority of days! Not doubting you as I am sure you are right, just seems a bit unfair on their part.

Thanks again!

Yeah, that's a fair point, and I wondered that too after posting...but saying that, someone that can't go out would still need the help by having someone do their shopping and collect prescriptions etc. Although I accept that then isn't 'mobility'...but it also isn't specifically covered by any of the daily living descriptors either. There must be lots of people with major issues that slip through the gaps in the descriptors.

I completely agree you should've received something for the journey planning from what you've said so far, just not 'e' as it states cannot undertake any journey. So that specific descriptor would be above the 'majority of days' part due to it's wording I think. That is just my opinion/perception of the descriptor though. I can only assume maybe your wording or the assessors understanding was off on the day.

It was also a complete one-off for me to visit the assessment centre and caused me a lot of problems both before and after. But in my case it doesn't help to have another person there (in fact it makes it worse!) so I have to try and get through everything on my own. I can't use public transport at all and usually fail anything other than a local grocery shop or river walk out of peak times, but that doesn't fit any of the descriptors because I can drive and do go out alone.

66Mustang

Very true about people slipping through the net. The descriptors seem to be aimed at very specific things and if you have a problem that is equally as bad but not what is described you don’t score any points.

For example (sorry for being graphic) I need someone to clean the toilet thoroughly before I am able to use it. I often urinate in plastic bottles, or in the sink that was installed in my bedroom to assist with my OCD, if there is no one available to clean the bathroom or if I just feel so overwhelmed by OCD that I can’t use the bathroom. However this obviously isn’t listed in the descriptors(!) so I scored no points. I guess the closest thing I could argue for that is that I possibly could say I need prompting to use the toilet (someone tells me to use it instead of unhygienic practices).

Chloe_Alumni

Hi @66Mustang, I am glad other members have been able to support you with this.

If you are following the descriptors and other advice then this will show a strong MR letter. Here is some more information that may help: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

66Mustang

Thank you for the post, Chloe.

Since I last posted on this thread I have seen my GP who knows my situation well. He said it sounds like I shouldn’t have been downgraded and should still be on enhanced care and at least some mobility. He has kindly offered to write a letter to accompany my own MR letter. Although I understand the chance of having the decision changed via MR is only 18%, I am remaining optimistic that this should be seen as strong evidence to support my claim.

Thanks again.

chiarieds

Hi again @66Mustang I'm delighted that you've got a great GP as do I. Mine also knows me well. I do hope his supportive letter helps your claim.

I also went through an MR & got awarded what I felt was correct & hoped for. Well someone's got to be in that 18% !! I hope you become another happy & positive statistic.

66Mustang

Thanks very much, chiareids

OverlyAnxious

66Mustang said:

Thank you for the post, Chloe.

Since I last posted on this thread I have seen my GP who knows my situation well. He said it sounds like I shouldn’t have been downgraded and should still be on enhanced care and at least some mobility. He has kindly offered to write a letter to accompany my own MR letter. Although I understand the chance of having the decision changed via MR is only 18%, I am remaining optimistic that this should be seen as strong evidence to support my claim.

Thanks again.

Did you have any evidence to send for the first part? If not, you could also use a letter from your parents to help with evidence as it sounds like they know your daily struggles well.

66Mustang

I did send in letters first off but only ones from a specialist clinic, which is dealing with just a couple of my issues, so they were only really able to explain how those issues affect my daily life - the GP is able to be more general and explain everything so hopefully this additional evidence will help.

A letter from my parents is a good idea, I hadn’t thought of that at all. Just one question though: I live with my parents - would there be any conflict of interest if I got them to write a letter, as they are obviously going to be on my “side”?

Thanks

poppy123456

A letter from your GP isn't the best evidence to send because they usually only know the basics, they very rarely know exactly how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors.

A letter from your parents could be useful for the Tribunal and there's certainly no harm in sending this.

66Mustang

Thanks for the post, poppy. I will ask my parents if they will write a letter.

66Mustang

I’ve just read the letter from my GP. I am fortunate in that I have a GP who knows me very well and the letter is strongly supportive. He has written very relevant information about how I need assistance with both daily living and when leaving the house. He also stated that he fully supports my own MR letter.

Is it harmful to send a GP letter or is it OK to go ahead and include this with my own letter and my parents’ letter?

Many thanks.

chiarieds

I'm sure that Poppy will know that a GP's letter isn't usually the best evidence, but from what you write about your GP & his letter, I would say that in your case (as in mine), it may prove to be very helpful; certainly will do no harm. I would therefore include it with your parents & your own letters.

66Mustang

Thanks very much, chiarieds. I will send them all off ASAP!

OverlyAnxious

Yep, I'd echo the above, sometimes a GP letter isn't helpful for PIP but it sounds like yours is, so I'd definitely send that along with a letter from your parents.

Chloe_Alumni

Hi @66Mustang, it sounds all very comprehensive to me! A GP letter is seen as poor evidence because a GP rarely knows their patients in that much detail. However, there is nothing wrong with sending a letter from you GP which does in fact highlight how you are affected on a daily basis.

66Mustang

Thanks everyone. It sounds like I am fortunate with my GP - I have actually found him more helpful than specialists on several occasions!

66Mustang

I am sort of having second thoughts about asking for a MR. I only scored 8 points for daily living so they would only need to cut this by 1 more point and I would lose all of my benefit, plus the person who cares for me would lose their carer’s allowance.

However I really feel I should have gotten more than what I was awarded.

Is it very common for them to deduct points at the MR stage?

poppy123456

Most MR decisions remain the same but it has been known for people to be awarded more points and lose points after the MR decision. It's impossible to give you any advice on whether there's any risk to your current award, for this you'll need to get some face to face advice.

herroabii

Sorry just to point out a few mistakes on the mobility
To score 10 points - cannot undertake any journey
To score 12 points - cannot undertake any journey Alone

herroabii

Also, my MR a few years ago went from 0 to enhanced rate, so it can happen.☺️
And sorry seen someone point out what I just posted, it recently changed when they couldn't say " for any reason other than " whatever it used to say.