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Had a phonecall from PIP before tribunal

rfour1985

Hello everyone,

Just a bit of backstory to give the possible reason why this has happened. I'm mobility disabled with no diagnosis, have heart and BP issues and some mental health too so a little bit of everything lol. I applied for PIP in August and sent all the information that I had at the time some letters and notes but not much. I only applied for PIP as I thought I would get the mobility due to the fact I couldn't walk without crutches and not very far at all maybe 4-5 meters. I had the telephone assessment and a while later was awarded the standard daily rate and no mobility. I thought this wasn't right as I explained the agony and pain I suffered trying to get to work in detail and the damage I was doing to my body in doing so.

I done a mandatory reconsideration as soon as I got my letter and by then I had more proof from my occupational therapist, rheumatologist, cardiologist, home treatment team ect. Spent ages getting it all photocopied as they don't accept email for some reason only post or carrier pigeon lol. They were very quick to respond and again I was given the same award. I spoke to my OT and the HTT and they were both amazed that it was the same as by then I was in a wheelchair.

So after some advice I like lodged an appeal with the tribunal service, luckily the lady I spoke to on the phone was so helpful there and I done the forms online and attached the proof I had and sent it all. I got told that the PIP team has till the 9th to give a response before having a tribunal meeting. That leads up to today and a lady from PIP rang me to discuss my tribunal asked me a few questions about my health. Then explained that the phone assessor wrote down that I had no trouble going to work as it was a 5 min walk to the bus and so forth. I recorded my telephone assessment and told them at the time and I said to the assessor that the "5 min" walk I used to make takes 1 hour now. So he missed the 1 hour part and used the 5 mins. I explained this to her and my treatment and my upgraded NHS wheelchair coming as my other one is unsuitable. Then all of a sudden she said that she was awarding me the enhanced daily rate and the enhanced mobility and backdating it all.

Has anyone had this happen before? And it shows that no matter what don't give up, if you ever need any help I'm always here.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

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Comments

sisinia

It's great that they finally got correct info and awarded correct pip. Shame you had to go that far though and that it was not relayed properly in first place by assessor

Middleton

rfour1985 said:

Hello everyone,

Just a bit of backstory to give the possible reason why this has happened. I'm mobility disabled with no diagnosis, have heart and BP issues and some mental health too so a little bit of everything lol. I applied for PIP in August and sent all the information that I had at the time some letters and notes but not much. I only applied for PIP as I thought I would get the mobility due to the fact I couldn't walk without crutches and not very far at all maybe 4-5 meters. I had the telephone assessment and a while later was awarded the standard daily rate and no mobility. I thought this wasn't right as I explained the agony and pain I suffered trying to get to work in detail and the damage I was doing to my body in doing so.

I done a mandatory reconsideration as soon as I got my letter and by then I had more proof from my occupational therapist, rheumatologist, cardiologist, home treatment team ect. Spent ages getting it all photocopied as they don't accept email for some reason only post or carrier pigeon lol. They were very quick to respond and again I was given the same award. I spoke to my OT and the HTT and they were both amazed that it was the same as by then I was in a wheelchair.

So after some advice I like lodged an appeal with the tribunal service, luckily the lady I spoke to on the phone was so helpful there and I done the forms online and attached the proof I had and sent it all. I got told that the PIP team has till the 9th to give a response before having a tribunal meeting. That leads up to today and a lady from PIP rang me to discuss my tribunal asked me a few questions about my health. Then explained that the phone assessor wrote down that I had no trouble going to work as it was a 5 min walk to the bus and so forth. I recorded my telephone assessment and told them at the time and I said to the assessor that the "5 min" walk I used to make takes 1 hour now. So he missed the 1 hour part and used the 5 mins. I explained this to her and my treatment and my upgraded NHS wheelchair coming as my other one is unsuitable. Then all of a sudden she said that she was awarding me the enhanced daily rate and the enhanced mobility and backdating it all.

Has anyone had this happen before? And it shows that no matter what don't give up, if you ever need any help I'm always here.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

literally no diagnosis?

rfour1985

Yeah unfortunately as it has happened in less than a year going from fully abled to not being able to walk and severe pain and constant fatigue. I don't match any of the normal markers for the known disabilities or diseases. Had full body and individual muscle mri's, CT scans, bone scans, dye tracing, nasal endoscopy and biopsies of my throat stomach and intestines, got a brain scan due in march and then if that's not showing anything I have to have at least 6 months of further testing but I have been told that may not give an answer at the end either. Having a non diagnosis has made it hard to get help but my OT has been amazing and helpful with it all.

bg844

Yes this does happen and it is quite rare too. Congratulations, you should receive your back payment within a week (it takes slightly longer) and a decision letter will follow explaining the award.

poppy123456

That's great news.

Middleton said:

literally no diagnosis?

You don't need a diagnosis to be entitled to PIP. When i claimed PIP for my daughter in 2017 she had no diagnosis and was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

calcotti

Yes DWP revisions prior to tribunal do happen. When you get the decision check how long the award is for. If you are not happy with the length I can start a new appeal challenging just the length of award (be very clear that is the only thing at issue) without going through another MR.

rfour1985

calcotti said:

Yes DWP revisions prior to tribunal do happen. When you get the decision check how long the award is for. If you are not happy with the length I can start a new appeal challenging just the length of award (be very clear that is the only thing at issue) without going through another MR.

Thank you, they have awarded for 5 years and I'm happy with that as I haven't been diagnosed so I wasn't expecting that long.

Middleton

poppy123456 said:

That's great news.

Middleton said:

literally no diagnosis?

You don't need a diagnosis to be entitled to PIP. When i claimed PIP for my daughter in 2017 she had no diagnosis and was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

How does that work? surely a diagnosis ,is professional confirmation, that an illness is in place (and yes of course, the further criteria of how said condition impacts us, is how DWP judge their assessment)

I'm just amazed that a claim can even be made without any medical back up to a said condition.

rfour1985

Middleton said:

poppy123456 said:

That's great news.

Middleton said:

literally no diagnosis?

You don't need a diagnosis to be entitled to PIP. When i claimed PIP for my daughter in 2017 she had no diagnosis and was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

How does that work? surely a diagnosis is professional confirmation that an illness is in place (and yes of course, the further criteria of how said condition impacts us, is how DWP judge their assessment)

I'm just amazed that a claim can even be made without any medical back up to a said condition.

There is medical reports about my chronic pain, damaged heart, and the mobility that I have but the symptoms I have do not match anything on medical records. That's why that cannot give me a diagnosis, I was told that if they have to tests will be run for at least another year to find the reasons and if none can be found it will likely be classed as ME (chronic fatigue syndrome) as this is what they use on musculoskeletal problems that can't be explained.

poppy123456

Middleton said:

poppy123456 said:

That's great news.

Middleton said:

literally no diagnosis?

You don't need a diagnosis to be entitled to PIP. When i claimed PIP for my daughter in 2017 she had no diagnosis and was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

How does that work? surely a diagnosis ,is professional confirmation, that an illness is in place (and yes of course, the further criteria of how said condition impacts us, is how DWP judge their assessment)

I'm just amazed that a claim can even be made without any medical back up to a said condition.

Because a diagnosis doesn't really tell them anything about how a condition will affect them. Everyone is affected differently by those conditions and you rarely see 2 people affected the same. You can have 5 people with the same diagnosis but 2 may not be affected as much so won't be entitled. The other 3 could be affect much worse so maybe entitled.

You certainly don't need any medical evidence for a successful PIP award. Last year for my review the only medical evidence i sent was a OT report and a repeat prescription list. The OT report had little information on it but i sent it anyway. I then included a couple of real world incidents of exactly what happened the last time i attempted each descriptor that applied to me. From that i had a paper based assessment.

Middleton

rfour1985 said:

Middleton said:

poppy123456 said:

That's great news.

Middleton said:

literally no diagnosis?

You don't need a diagnosis to be entitled to PIP. When i claimed PIP for my daughter in 2017 she had no diagnosis and was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

How does that work? surely a diagnosis is professional confirmation that an illness is in place (and yes of course, the further criteria of how said condition impacts us, is how DWP judge their assessment)

I'm just amazed that a claim can even be made without any medical back up to a said condition.

There is medical reports about my chronic pain, damaged heart, and the mobility that I have but the symptoms I have do not match anything on medical records. That's why that cannot give me a diagnosis, I was told that if they have to tests will be run for at least another year to find the reasons and if none can be found it will likely be classed as ME (chronic fatigue syndrome) as this is what they use on musculoskeletal problems that can't be explained.

Well, i sincerely hope that you can at least find, pockets of relief here and there, if at all possible.

Sounds like the nhs are being very thorough, so i hope for all the best.

I asked the question, because i'm just the type that needs a name, or somekind of focal point(diagnosis) Something to focus on per se...(not sure if thats an entirely good or bad thing).

Took 10 yrs for Drs/Specialists to realise , that the MRI scans were not artefacts on the radiology images., but rather Sclerosis(MS).. Plus a host of other co morbids.

Tricky business being ill, to say the least.

All the best!

Middleton

rfour1985 said:

Middleton said:

poppy123456 said:

That's great news.

Middleton said:

literally no diagnosis?

You don't need a diagnosis to be entitled to PIP. When i claimed PIP for my daughter in 2017 she had no diagnosis and was awarded Enhanced for both parts.

How does that work? surely a diagnosis is professional confirmation that an illness is in place (and yes of course, the further criteria of how said condition impacts us, is how DWP judge their assessment)

I'm just amazed that a claim can even be made without any medical back up to a said condition.

There is medical reports about my chronic pain, damaged heart, and the mobility that I have but the symptoms I have do not match anything on medical records. That's why that cannot give me a diagnosis, I was told that if they have to tests will be run for at least another year to find the reasons and if none can be found it will likely be classed as ME (chronic fatigue syndrome) as this is what they use on musculoskeletal problems that can't be explained.

Well, i sincerely hope that you can at least find, pockets of relief here and there, if at all possible.

Sounds like the nhs are being very thorough so i hope for all the best.

I asked the question, because i'm just the type that needs a name, or somekind of focal point(diagnosis) Something to focus on per se...(not sure if thats an entirely good or bad thing).

Tooks 10 yrs for Drs/Specialists to realise , that the MRI scans were not artefacts on the radiology images., but rather Sclerosis(MS).. Plus a host of other co morbids.

Tricky business being ill, to say the least.

All the best!

calcotti

Middleton said: I'm just amazed that a claim can even be made without any medical back up to a said condition.

Many people have undiagnosed conditions - are they to be denied help.
As poppy says people with the same diagnosis can be affected very differently so the diagnosis isn't necessarily informative.
As you say

Middleton said: Tricky business being ill, to say the least.

Middleton

calcotti said:

Middleton said: I'm just amazed that a claim can even be made without any medical back up to a said condition.

Many people have undiagnosed conditions - are they to be denied help.
As poppy says people with the same diagnosis can be affected very differently so the diagnosis isn't necessarily informative.
As you say

Middleton said: Tricky business being ill, to say the least.

Who stated that? odd conflation!

The point was that i would have thought a professionals opinion-(aka Specialist/Dr) etc ,would give the base line evidence ,that something was afoot...
Since my original Q, the gentleman has now further mentioned , thathe had given records of medicines etc..Which now makes more sense..., that some kind of paper rai,evidence, was shown.Which constitutes as some kind of evidence..

And no ones saying symptoms arent differing, but they'll always be somekind of common aligned symptoms indicative to a particular condition.

As you seem to have gotten the wrong end of the stick, i'll further explain the reason behind my question, which in truth is actually multifaceted.But i'll just use this one example(which has nothing to do with people being denied any type of help) nothing i asked alludes to that supposition.

Say you work, and after 7 days approx your employee will no longer further rely on your words alone. And they the require further proofs, of being not able to work...aka Drs fit note.. Can you see that even employers reach out to a higher authority other than our own testimony?

It was from this position (as well as having a diagnose to focus on also) i was coming from. Often questions are nuanced Calcotti, and often without any inferred negative.

poppy123456

Middleton said:

The point was that i would have thought a professionals opinion-(aka Specialist/Dr) etc ,would give the base line evidence ,that something was afoot...
Since my original Q, the gentleman has now further mentioned , thathe had given records of medicines etc..Which now makes more sense..., that some kind of paper rai,evidence, was shown.Which constitutes as some kind of evidence..

Nope, not unless they specifically state exactly how your conditions affect you and many of them do not. For example a GP and many other medical professionals will not spend any time with you to know how you wash/dress/undress/prepare a meal/budget etc etc.

As i previously advised, you don't need any medical evidence for a successful PIP award.

Middleton said:

Say you work, and after 7 days approx your employee will no longer further rely on your words alone. And they the require further proofs, of being not able to work...aka Drs fit note.. Can you see that even employers reach out to a higher authority other than our own testimony?

I don't know what a fit note has to do with a PIP claim because PIP has nothing to do with anyone's fitness to work.

Middleton

poppy123456 said:

Middleton said:

The point was that i would have thought a professionals opinion-(aka Specialist/Dr) etc ,would give the base line evidence ,that something was afoot...
Since my original Q, the gentleman has now further mentioned , thathe had given records of medicines etc..Which now makes more sense..., that some kind of paper rai,evidence, was shown.Which constitutes as some kind of evidence..

Nope, not unless they specifically state exactly how your conditions affect you and many of them do not. For example a GP and many other medical professionals will not spend any time with you to know how you wash/dress/undress/prepare a meal/budget etc etc.

As i previously advised, you don't need any medical evidence for a successful PIP award.

Middleton said:

Say you work, and after 7 days approx your employee will no longer further rely on your words alone. And they the require further proofs, of being not able to work...aka Drs fit note.. Can you see that even employers reach out to a higher authority other than our own testimony?

I don't know what a fit note has to do with a PIP claim because PIP has nothing to do with anyone's fitness to work.

Anyone could say x,y and z without any medical proof and give statements(examples) descriptors...etc... And of course, even people with diagnosis can exaggerate...But i would state that to have no diagnosis at all, and minimal professional evidence, could...(operative word "could" )lead to easy fraud... theres another nuance.. See! theres many layers to this entire PIP benefit that can lead to so many bogus claims...

So to my mind...with at least some layers of evidence..aka Drs appointments etc..and at least an alluded to possible diagnosis in mind..It would make PIPs works a little more easier..

Poppy! whats to stop someone just saying anything? but someone with a professional diagnosis(and of course, before you mention it again, some people my not exhibit symptoms) but even there, given the multitude of conditions...some will at least exhibit some symptoms..hence why the person goes to the Drs in the first place..

But to get back to a point.. Someone without ANY diagnosis and close to zero contact with a Dr could still make a successful claim?

calcotti

I simply followed the logic of your suggestion that you were surprised that benefits could be awarded without a diagnosis or medical backup. It follows that someone without such information would not be able to claim. In fact the rules mean that it is possible (although certainly not easy).

Middleton

poppy123456 said:

Middleton said:

The point was that i would have thought a professionals opinion-(aka Specialist/Dr) etc ,would give the base line evidence ,that something was afoot...
Since my original Q, the gentleman has now further mentioned , thathe had given records of medicines etc..Which now makes more sense..., that some kind of paper rai,evidence, was shown.Which constitutes as some kind of evidence..

Nope, not unless they specifically state exactly how your conditions affect you and many of them do not. For example a GP and many other medical professionals will not spend any time with you to know how you wash/dress/undress/prepare a meal/budget etc etc.

As i previously advised, you don't need any medical evidence for a successful PIP award.

Middleton said:

Say you work, and after 7 days approx your employee will no longer further rely on your words alone. And they the require further proofs, of being not able to work...aka Drs fit note.. Can you see that even employers reach out to a higher authority other than our own testimony?

I don't know what a fit note has to do with a PIP claim because PIP has nothing to do with anyone's fitness to work.

I don't know what a fit note has to do with a PIP claim because PIP has nothing to do with anyone's fitness to work. :End quote

The inference being, belief? An employee will not by law just rely on your word..Hence, isnt it easier for PIP to see that at least the claimant has had a Professionals best attempts, which in some way would elude to some type of prognosis?

Also, a fitnote and its need would suggest someone is exhibiting symptoms to such an extent that they cannot work...aka Symptoms!

Middleton

It seems ive got to spell this all out..lol

Middleton

poppy123456 said:

Middleton said:

The point was that i would have thought a professionals opinion-(aka Specialist/Dr) etc ,would give the base line evidence ,that something was afoot...
Since my original Q, the gentleman has now further mentioned , thathe had given records of medicines etc..Which now makes more sense..., that some kind of paper rai,evidence, was shown.Which constitutes as some kind of evidence..

Nope, not unless they specifically state exactly how your conditions affect you and many of them do not. For example a GP and many other medical professionals will not spend any time with you to know how you wash/dress/undress/prepare a meal/budget etc etc.

As i previously advised, you don't need any medical evidence for a successful PIP award.

Middleton said:

Say you work, and after 7 days approx your employee will no longer further rely on your words alone. And they the require further proofs, of being not able to work...aka Drs fit note.. Can you see that even employers reach out to a higher authority other than our own testimony?

I don't know what a fit note has to do with a PIP claim because PIP has nothing to do with anyone's fitness to work.

Ok last attempt! and i dont mean that offensively.

You employ me...

I call you ,and tell you that i have x,y and z symptoms...My word (the reason i mention FITNOTES is because , after 7 days of self certificating, by law and to get paid, you have to see the Dr, and get some type of diagnosis/prognosis.. No employee would just allow my word. So for an employer to not allow an employee to go sick for 5yrs say..without great evidence...why do PIP?.. anyone could say they had a witness etc..or often some people cannot truly prove their symptoms... its such a broad scope that is actually hard to truly prove unless so obvious as to leave no doubt.

Of course we could go left and right here, until the cows come home...but to focus, do you not see what im getting at? fundamentally.

And certainly not inferring the poor guy who originally posted has fraudulently claimed, but without diagnosis ,makes the possiblity of fraud more broader..
My question of amazement was..that someone,Anyone" can, without diagnosis get full PIP for a very long duration..

Whereas ive heard of people,friends with very serious conditions(and yes, its going to have to be anecdotal, but i know it to be the case) and they didnt receive PIP, until maybe Tribunal..

No offense, i know you like the grey areas... but im sure you know what im trying to focus on?