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Advice on whether to go to Tribunal for PIP Please

JayJayJuliette

Hello everyone, hope you are all doing well.

I, like so many others have had the roughest ride since last year, between LCWRA, my local council, Claiming PIP, and a UC claim review never mind about my living conditions which are about to change thank goodness.

I have a very important question to ask, as now I feel I have a little more strength to contest my PIP decision after my MR, but only have 3 days to do it.

I really have felt with all this I had been beaten up or run over by a truck and have had absolutely no strength after MR result of still sticking to their decision.

I realised they didn't even read my letter explaining point for point where I should have got points for example that I can't even walk 10 meters let alone 20 meters due to chronic pain and losing my balance, I also sent in so much more evidence than when I first made my claim.

I know that I should contest it because the assessor didn't put the truth about what I told her or she was just not listening but I do have recordings and video recordings to prove that she was not listening or writing down what I was saying.

The advice I am looking for is if I should go for tribunal and the reason why I am worried about doing so.

I was awarded both daily and mobility lower rate and very quickly I might add, one of the fastest I've ever heard of in fact.

So now due to the council finally helping me, my expenses will be going up this month where I will not be able to pay my new bills if PIP take my lower rate award away from me as it would cause me to be homeless which is a very frightening thought when one is disabled.

Like I said earlier I know I should make a claim for tribunal but just can't bear to think about what would happen to me if they do take away the award they have already given me.

I did call them and all I was told was to put in a complaint to the assessor company and to apply for tribunal online, the fellow I spoke with said he would make a note of what I told him which was I can't walk 10 meters let alone 20 meters, and I have recordings to prove that the assessor was not being truthful or not listening to me, I also told him that I believe no one has actually read my letter that I sent in with my MR as the lady that did the MR decision said exactly the same things as the first assessor, which is impossible if she had actually read my letter and the further supporting evidence I sent with it.

So please can someone advise me if I should go for the tribunal appeal and if there is any criteria that they need to go by for not taking my award already given, away.

I really would appreciate some good sound advice as I only have 3 days to do this.

Thank you everyone

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x x

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poppy123456

You don't have 3 days left because you have 13 months to request the Tribunal after the MR decision was made. If you're outside of the 1 month you'll need to give a reason why you didn't request it within that time. It's highly unlikely they would refuse.

For the MR decision, it's not unusual for them to stick with the original decision, even to go as far as copying and pasting the same reasons for refusal as the original decision maker gave.

If you request the Tribunal and they plan on removing points they must warn you before doing so. They would either contact you before the hearing or they would warn you on the day of the hearing. It will then be adjourned for you to go away and consider your options. If you decide not to go ahead you can cancel the hearing and continue with your existing award. If you decide to continue then you do so at your own risk.

If you continue with the Tribunal I'd advise you to either appear in person or request a telephone/video hearing as either of those will give about a 70% success rate. Paper based hearings are much lower success at only about 5-8%.

If you use the recordings you will need to get the transcribed. Please also remember that sending in excessive amounts of evidence isn't helpful, less is often more. It's not helpful either to send in multiple pieces of evidence all saying the same thing.

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896420#Comment_896420

Hi Poppy Thank you so much for responding and for your advice, really appreciate this very much.

Do you think that my reasons for needing more time will be accepted?

Too overwhelmed by the whole process when in too much pain that I am going through, plus too much anxiety and having to have all my medications upped considerably
Having to do that whole UC claim review, which was so intimidating
Too depressed and no strength to fight back for the past month.

Poppy, I wasn't quite clear on what you said about paper, do you mean |I shouldn't do the online form that he told me to do?

And also about the recordings being transcribed ( not really sure what that means) I did the recordings by myself as I knew I was going to be alone on the day of the assessment. I did ask prior to the assessment if a recording could be done and was told that the assessor could not do it due to not having that kind of equipment and was told that I could do the recordings.

I would definitely ask for a video hearing as, 1. I can hardly walk and 2. I can't sit up in one position for very long at all and would have to do the hearing from my bed, unfortunately.

So if I understand correctly Poppy, you are saying if I do the appeal they will give me an option and they just can't take the money away from me without me deciding which way I want to go is that correct? I've just heard so many horror stories of people like me challenging their decision, lose the award they have already been given

Thank you Poppy 💐

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x

poppy123456

Either reasons will be fine, as I advised, they wouldn't refuse an appeal, providing it's less than 13 months.

The paper based hearing I advised is a decision is made through paper alone, where you wouldn't appear in person or have a telephone/video hearing.

Transcribing a recording is where you convert from audio to a text.

What horror stories have you read when people challenge the decision at Tribunal stage and go onto be refused? I've heard of very few people that this has happened to because they have to warn you before removing points. I think you may have misunderstood what you read or heard.

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896445#Comment_896445

Poppy,Thank for you your answers they have made me feel better already.

I got it now about the paper thing and I would definitely do the video hearing.

I also understand now about getting the recordings transcribed, even though the video one is amazing evidence of how much pain I was in and me crying and looking at times completely confused plus me trying to change my body position due to terrible discomfort.

Poppy do I call the MR option to tell them I need an extension due to the reasons stated in my last message about why I haven't done it in the month they gave me.

And last but not least I have read online many horror stories with other benefit sites, people saying that they lost their original award before they got to the tribunal and that PIP had made a decision to give them either fewer points or take the whole previous award granted away from them. There was never a mention in the messages written by these people that they had an option to be able to stay with their original award or to continue with the tribunal, it was just done to them and they were saying that PIP had removed points and they were not going to get the money they had before.

So if I understand you correctly, they won't remove points or the original award if you don't continue with the tribunal? is that correct? Is this not like a bully threat to keep you at a lower award and threaten you with less points to stop you going to tribunal?

Sorry Poppy but I do get confused at times with all this medication I am on.

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x

poppy123456

You do not need to contact DWP or anyone for an extension to appeal the decision. You just need to request the appeal when you're ready. You can do that online here.

https://www.gov.uk/appeal-benefit-decision/submit-appeal

Seems like you definitely misunderstood some things with regards to your award being removed. Once awarded by DWP they can't just remove points before you have the hearing with the Tribunal. They can removed points at MR stage.

Once you request the hearing DWP are given a date in which they need to respond by. At this stage they will review all your evidence again and sometimes they may ring you to offer an award or a higher award in your case. I've never heard of them removing points at this stage.

Once you request the hearing it's at Tribunal stage and DWP can't just remove points. They can request points are removed by the Tribunal but this doesn't mean points will be removed.

If you have a warning it would come from the Tribunal, not from DWP.

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896496#Comment_896496

Oh Wow this is amazing news Poppy because even Citizens advice say you need to give them a good reason as to why you haven't responded by putting your appeal in within the month they sent you your MR letter.

Poppy do you know why they say on your MR notice letter that you have one month to send in your appeal for tribunal, why would they do that when in fact it's 13 months?

Wow there seems to be so much false data on the internet benefit sights, I'm actually blown away how poor the information is out there.

Gosh Poppy thank you so much for putting things straight for me as I have been living in fear for no reason at all, what a relief thank you🌷

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x x 😺

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896524#Comment_896524

Hi Poppy I've attached these 2 screenshots of them saying I have only one month from the

IMG_20240804_172635.jpg

Screenshot 2024-08-04 5.33.41 PM.png

day I received my MR Notice, so you can see why I am getting confused all the time

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x x

chiarieds

This is just the paper form (SSCS1), tho you can appeal online. Scroll down to near the bottom of p3 & you'll see, 'If the date you have entered [from your Mandatory Reconsideration letter] is over one month from today’s date, briefy explain why your appeal is late.'

The above is from the govt's website:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1136666/SSCS1_0821_save.pdf

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896531#Comment_896531

Hi Chiarieds, Im so confused now as Poppy said I don't need to contact the DWP and I have 13 months to do all this?

chiarieds

You don't have to contact the DWP, & you can appeal to a tribunal, as the above link shows, even if it's more than a month from the date on your MR decision letter. You have up to 13 months in which to appeal. Please also see :

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/challenging-a-personal-independence-payment-pip-decision/appeal-to-tribunal

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896537#Comment_896537

Why are you confused? Chiarieds didn't advise you that you had to contact DWP at this stage. The link she posted was for HMCTS, did you have a read of that?

Yes, DWP tell you that you have 1 month but you actually have 13 months. Please see both links that chiarieds posted.

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896539#Comment_896539

Thank you Chirieds This message from you wasn't up on this thread when I read the first one you sent me.

Thank you for posting the links your help is very much appreciated

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x

JayJayJuliette

Thank you Poppy I did read the first one Chairieds sent me but the second one hadn't come through on the thread for me until I got your message as both of them came through to me at the same time.

Many thanks for all your and Chairied help and support. Oh just one more question if you don't mind please just to make sure I have it right.

I see it says that the DWP have 28 days to respond to the court, what if they don't respond and if they do, they cant stop the tribunal or affect the award I have been awarded and will I still have a tribunal date or can the tribunal/court still come back and say I won't be having a tribunal.

Sorry but that was my last question and as I am doing this all on my own and being heavily medicated at the same time I am finding things a bit tough, to say the least.

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x x x

poppy123456

No problem. Yes, 28 days but they often don't respond by that deadline. If they don't HMCTS will extend it. They will eventually respond.

Before they respond as I advised earlier in the thread they will review your claim. Sometimes they may offer an award. (or a higher award at this stage)

No, they can't stop the Tribunal. They will oppose it, which is perfectly normal and happens to everyone because if they thought you were entitled to a higher award you wouldn't be at the stage in the first place. It will not be stopped.

Yes the Tribunal can make a decision on paper alone, which would mean no hearing is needed but it's rare for this to happen.

It's a very long wait and you could be waiting anything up to a year for a date so please bear that in mind too.

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896550#Comment_896550

Thank you so much for all of this Poppy and for helping me to understand it all better, I do feel more confident now and think my biggest concern was if they took points away from me to give me a lower award or took my award that I get now away from me.

I do understand it can take up to a year and that's OK and I will have to manage, as long as I get the original award I am getting now so I am able to pay my bills up until I get my day in court as without the award I am getting now my life would be a train wreck and I would become homeless.

Let's hope they go over my file/ claim again and offer me what it is I am truly entitled to with my disabilities and how I suffer each day trying to do pretty much anything anymore.

Thank you once again to you both for the care, I'm exhausted even from this and have to get up early as I have been booked in for an emergency MRI first thing in the morning.

Lots of love and good wishes to you and Chairields

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x x

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896557#Comment_896557

Dear Poppy I have been trying to go over the online form for tribuneral as I thought I might be able to get it in by tomorrow evening and have started it but I am truthfully very overwhelmed by seeing how much I have to write about the assessor and then all the descriptors they didn't give me points for and why I don't agree with the zero points the assessor gave me. ( Its a lot 😣 )

I do have a few questions if you wouldn't mind answering them for me, please

1, If I send this in after their one-month dead line date can the DWP still make me an offer and do they still have 28 days to respond to the courts? (or do the rules change from that if one is late of their one-month deadline date on their notice letter

2. Am I supposed to send in the evidence and 10-page letter I wrote for my MR or do the DWP give the court my MR letter and other evidence I sent in with the MR letter I wrote. I am struggling to find answers to this.

3. I only have a friend to represent me on this who is my neighbor who has been helping me with so much, so I put his name in the box for representation person. It says somewhere online that he needs to register with the court is this correct Poppy? even though I have already given all his details, address, phone number, and email address

4. And how would I request a video call for my tribuneral as 1. I can't travel or walk more than a few meters and 2. I have incontinence which is very embarrassing for me when I am out of the house. I saw that it said they would decide what type of hearing I would be having and would let me know which one it is.

Thanks Poppy and sorry to trouble you but I really don't have anyone else to ask for advice.

Warm Regards as always

Jay-Jay x x

WhatThe

Hi, you sent your evidence and arguments with the MR request and this is just a formality to proceed your appeal. You only need to write a line or two.

Then within a month, perhaps a bit longer, you'll receive a "bundle" from HMCTS of all the documents to do with your case. You will need to check whether everything you submitted as evidence has been included. The DWP may negotiate an award while you wait for a hearing date.

Not sure about the representative.

JayJayJuliette

Hi What The, thank you for responding.

When I looked at what it said, it said I needed to write what I object to in the MR notice and I must list the reasons why I object to the new decision maker's decision and give my reasons why and examples of why, so this is what confused me as I had listed all my reasons for them to look at their decision again in my MR.

Gosh, I find all of this overwhelming and so confusing.

Could you please tell me how I would check if the DWP sends all my evidence and MR letter to the tribunal court if that's what you meant and possibly if you have the answers to my other questions? I know you said you weren't sure about question number 3.

Thank you so much

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x

poppy123456

1/ Yes, DWP can still make an offer if you request the Tribunal after the 1 month. They still have 28 days to respond but as I advised, the mostly do not respond by the deadline.

2/ I don't know why you're struggling to find answers to this, I did advise you that you don't need to send anything that's already been sent because DWP will send everything and you'll receive a copy in the bundle.

3/ The friend should only represent you if they have understanding of the PIP descriptors, what they mean and have understanding of the Tribunal process. It seems like they don't, otherwise they would be advising you on all of this. They can be with you during the hearing, without representing you. Even if they represent you, you will still need to speak for yourself.

4/ You choose what you want when you apply. They do not choose for you.

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/897630#Comment_897630

You check what they've sent by looking through the bundle. It will contain everything you've already sent, including the PIP2 form, all additional evidence, the assessment report, MR request letter etc etc.

For the Tribunal request you just need to give a brief reason, nothing special just keep it simple.

You may also want to get some expert advice from an agency near you and they will help you going forward.

https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits

JayJayJuliette

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/897631#Comment_897631

Oh hi, Poppy :) thank you so much, I am getting a clearer understanding of how all of this works now thank you. And now understand about the pack and that all my evidence and claim is in the pack that they sent to me :)

I really can't afford to pay for advice unfortunately and just thought my neighbor would be good for supporting me at the tribunal as I've been very alone in this whole process and think I've made lots of mistakes along the way. Should I take him off of the category that says representative or leave him on there?

I really hope that when this is all over that I to will be able to help others that are in the same boat as me after all you guys have taught me :)

Thank you for the Link Poppy

Warm Regards

Jay-Jay x

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