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Other descriptor supported

Mark8699

Hi

I was looking at my PIP medical report and it says recommendation and evidence used, descriptor not supported and other descriptor supported.

What does it all mean?

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Comments

poppy123456

Underneath the descriptor there's a box for the assessor to write their justification for choosing that descriptor. If nothing is ticked because it doesn't apply then there's nothing to write in the box.

I realise you get very anxious with your PIP and ESA awards but i really do think you're overthinking this. Please put the reports away and try to forget about them.

Mark8699

It’s because it mentions harm from loss of consciousness but I haven’t had loss of consciousness for ages. Doesn’t that mean I’ve got better in that respect?

I’m still having seizures but I am conscious for them.

Help me to understand. I don’t want to get done for fraud or anything.

poppy123456

Mark8699 said:

Help me to understand. I don’t want to get done for fraud or anything.

You won't get "done" for fraud. Remember PIP is about how your conditions affect you for at least 50% of the time over a 12 month period. It's also not awarded based on any diagnosis.

Just because you're claiming PIP is doesn't mean your life has to stop. I can't give you any specific advice about your PIP claim because i have no idea exactly how your conditions affect you.

Mark8699

What does 50% mean?

What if you didn’t have any loss of consciousness in 12 months?

poppy123456

50% of the time means at least half the time over a period of 12 months. If you're worried about your conditions improving that much that it could affect your current PIP award then i'd advise you to get some expert advice from an agency near you. https://advicelocal.uk/

I'm afraid i can't give you any specific advice on your PIP claim because i don't know anything about your conditions and how exactly they affect you.

Mark8699

If your condition improved and you genuinely made a mistake and wasn’t sure. What would happen?

would Citizens advice be able to go through the PIP claim with me?

Sue_Alumni

Hi @Mark8699

The consciousness during waking moments descriptor is relevant to work capability assessments it is not a PIP descriptor. However, the fact that you have seizures or are at risk of seizures is relevant to your PIP claim and you are right to describe how they impact on how you they affect the way you carry out your daily living and mobility activities.

The assessors report only make recommendations to the decision maker and so poppy is right that you should try not to worry too much about what the report says for now. Just because the assessor may, for whatever reason disagree with your evidence, that certainly doesn’t mean that you are doing anything wrong. If the decision you get from the decision maker isn’t what you hoped for then then challenge that decision by asking for a mandatory reconsideration.

When you get the DWP decision the decision maker must show that they are satisfied that you can complete an activity reliably and for the majority of the time. Furthermore, to complete an activity reliably you should only be treated as being able to complete an activity if all four of the reliability factors are met – that the activity can be completed safely, to a reasonable standard, in a reasonable time period and repeatedly. Even if the risk of a seizure is remote you should not necessarily be treated as being able to carry out an activity and the risk of harm must be more likely than not. If the constant risk of seizures impacts on you even if the last one was some time ago you should explain whether you need someone to accompany you when you go out and whether you rely on them to help you if you did have a seizure.

Your local Citizens advice or other advice service should be able to help you with a mandatory reconsideration.

Mark8699

I already have the award I’m just worried that it would be a change of circumstances. I’m still getting seizures and I checked that my symptoms are also related to Dissassociative seizures such as palpitations etc. but can’t help but feeling worried.

Mark8699

Seizures can take all shapes and forms too. You can lose conscious, you can hyperventilating, could shake or lose focus. There’s isn’t much of that described. Just the obsession with LOC

poppy123456

You wouldn't have been awarded PIP because of your epilepsy because it's not awarded based on any diagnosis. You would have been awarded based on how those conditions affect you. Please try to think about something else.

Mark8699

I think that’s what I am trying to say though. My condition is dissassociative seizures which sometimes have loss of consciousness but for a long time I haven’t had any episodes of loss of consciousness.

I think because I have been having seizures when I’m conscious. That that means my award is null and void.

I did check my award and it does talk about how my mental health is impacted by everything tbh. I think there’s been more evidence of how that affects me rather than the loss of consciousness type thing.

Does that make sense?

Sue_Alumni

It makes perfect sense that you are worried but I think you are overthinking things and need to wait until you get the decision letter from the DWP. Try not to worry too much and let us know when you hear anything from the DWP.
Take care

Mark8699

Hi,

I have my decision letter. I have had the award for 13-14 months now.

poppy123456

Yup it makes sense, you suffer with mental health as well as epilepsy. I still think you're overthinking this and your ESA claim.

Mark8699

It is non epileptic. Which makes it even harder as you receive literally hardly any help. Pseudoseizures sometimes people call them.

Mark8699

Sue_Scope said:

Hi @Mark8699
The consciousness during waking moments descriptor is relevant to work capability assessments it is not a PIP descriptor. However, the fact that you have seizures or are at risk of seizures is relevant to your PIP claim and you are right to describe how they impact on how you they affect the way you carry out your daily living and mobility activities.
The assessors report only make recommendations to the decision maker and so poppy is right that you should try not to worry too much about what the report says for now. Just because the assessor may, for whatever reason disagree with your evidence, that certainly doesn’t mean that you are doing anything wrong. If the decision you get from the decision maker isn’t what you hoped for then then challenge that decision by asking for a mandatory reconsideration.
When you get the DWP decision the decision maker must show that they are satisfied that you can complete an activity reliably and for the majority of the time. Furthermore, to complete an activity reliably you should only be treated as being able to complete an activity if all four of the reliability factors are met – that the activity can be completed safely, to a reasonable standard, in a reasonable time period and repeatedly. Even if the risk of a seizure is remote you should not necessarily be treated as being able to carry out an activity and the risk of harm must be more likely than not. If the constant risk of seizures impacts on you even if the last one was some time ago you should explain whether you need someone to accompany you when you go out and whether you rely on them to help you if you did have a seizure.
Your local Citizens advice or other advice service should be able to help you with a mandatory reconsideration.

I checked on neurosymptoms.org about the treatment for FND seizures. It says if you start to have them conscious, you gain better control of them. But it does say you could still blackout.

I did mention in my report that I have never had a seizure when out and about (though I haven’t been out much to test the theory at the time of the report).

And furthermore I said I have never had a seizure in the kitchen either.

However, on my medical report. It does say other descriptor supported. Loss of consciousness was considered as HOC reports a diagnosis of non-epileptic seizures and VB shows he gets episodes of LOC which VB does not always get a warning sign when it happened and last happened 1 month ago. HOC is having ongoing investigations into the cause and is currently awaiting to be seen by the non epileptic attack service and neuropsychiatry however FH indicates he is not able to go out on the MOD due to OPD therefore per PIP guidelines it has been advised he cannot undertake a journey as it would cause OPD.

The same applies to cooking meals. Recommendation and evidence used related to prompting due to lack of motivation however other descriptor supported:

same lines as above however it says FH reports he has never had a seizure when showering due to the unpredictable nature of his seizures it is probably supervision is required due to safety.

However in decision letter. It says I was awarded washing & bathing for prompting (no mention of the need for supervision).

I hope this helps to put my mind at ease throwing this out there despite it being a personal medical problem but it might be best for me to calm myself.

I have been having seizures whilst conscious. My partner stated I’ve had maybe 2-3 since I was given the award. As I said, my frequency is so low but then it does say in my medical report, that I told them in good faith that my frequency is low for the seizures.

So with this in mind, can you shed more light?

calcotti

As advised in numerous threads you are overthinking everything and causing yourself needless worry.
With seizures a key issue is our safety when seizures occur regardless of their frequency. So if you have no warning you are always at risk because of the potential harm caused by a seizure.

Mark8699

And in fairness, I was truthful and said my seizure frequency was very low. I also said I had never had a seizure in the shower or outside (not that I go out much) because usually when I do I panic and avoid crowds, public transport, etc and go by car everywhere with a friend or partner.

Which makes me wonder why didn’t I score 12 points rather than 10 which is cannot undertake any journey due to overwhelming psychological distress.

poppy123456

Mark8699 said:

Which makes me wonder why didn’t I score 12 points rather than 10 which is cannot undertake any journey due to overwhelming psychological distress.

This was explained to you in another thread. If you can't undertake any journey the majority of the time then this will score under acitivity 1E. (10 points)

A claimant who satisfies 1E cannot also satisfy 1F. If they cannot undertake a single journey on the majority of days due to overwhelming psychological distress, then 1E will be the applicable descriptor, even if there are occasions when they could follow a familiar route, if accompanied.

Mark8699

poppy123456 said:

Mark8699 said:

Which makes me wonder why didn’t I score 12 points rather than 10 which is cannot undertake any journey due to overwhelming psychological distress.

This was explained to you in another thread. If you can't undertake any journey the majority of the time then this will score under acitivity 1E. (10 points)
A claimant who satisfies 1E cannot also satisfy 1F. If they cannot undertake a single journey on the majority of days due to overwhelming psychological distress, then 1E will be the applicable descriptor, even if there are occasions when they could follow a familiar route, if accompanied.

I also noticed on rightsnet that you can score this descriptor if you avoid public transport and crowds. But I know in my report it mentions me not doing stuff to an acceptable standard.

Let’s say for instance I started doing things to an acceptable standard. Even NOT on the majority of days. Where would I stand with this award?