nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

We want to hear from you: please tell us about your experience of the online community.

Confused about who decides on paper based assessments

kah22

Recently I helped my GF fill in her PIP transfer form. She suffers from bipolar and has a distrust of ‘officialdom’ in the broadest sense of the word

Anyway I must have done something right for after two planned f2f assessments she received a phone call that she didn’t have to do a f2f

Here is my confusion.I live in Northern Ireland and Capita are responsible for all PIP assessments in NI. From the beginning my GF was completely out of it when thinking she’d have to do a f2f so I concentrated very hard on trying to get apaper based assessment.when the second f2f was scheduled I visited my local MLA’s Office (our local assembly) to see what he could do. The first piece of advice was to get a letter from her GP saying something along the line of she shouldn’t travel. Done. Doctors letter off to Capita

With the letter safely in the post the MLA sent an email to one of the Senior Civil Servants running PIP here in NI asking for a paper based assessment and giving a broad outline of my GF problems. Within three days she had a telephone call from Capita saying she didn’t have to attend the interview that it would be paper based.

Here is my confusion: Capita are the group that decide on what kind of an assessment should be carried out BUT it looks very much like they changed their minds after my MLA contacted a senior official within the Dept. Is this normal?

Another thought that crossed my mind was that a PBA might be more beneficial to the claimant as there is no one sitting opposite just looking for reasons to deduct points..I’m a cynic ! Perhaps with a PBA claimants might just get that extra few points they need

Another idea occured to me; with the Governments U-Turn On Mental conditions and Capita’s own financial worries they might all be trying to avoid a bigger mess

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

kah22

CockneyRebel said:

Have you asked for a copy of the report ?
PA3 I belive for paper based

CR

I dot want to ask for assessment yet but as soon as it is then I’ll ask

kah22

First of all my apologies as this is a longer message than I normally post.

My friend has received her PIP award; standard rate care at £57.30 week and no help for mobility. The award to March 2021. As mentioned in other posts the assessment was paper based and the condition was Bipolar.

We now turn to whether or not to look a mandatory review, she has received 11 points; that 1 extra would make a difference. I should say that while she will go for a MR but not to a Tribunal but we’ll not be saying that.

In their ‘How I made my decision’ section the DM stated that ‘they used information provided by the letter from your psychiatrist. This comment I find particularly interesting: ‘The information provided by the telephone advice from your psychiatrist . From what I’ve been reading this seems to be uncommon ie they contacting the psychiatrist. I would imagine this is something I should ask for specifically in a SAR: . What advice did he give? They didn’t mention the GP’s letter or the support letter from myself.

While I appreciate that a mandatory review may look at all descriptors in the hunt for that extra 1 point I would be homing in on the following. Preparing Food, Eating and Drinking, Reading, Communicating and Making Decisions about Money

Preparing food. 2 from 8 For this activity she was awarded 2 points for needing prompting. However, I feel that they did not take into account her assertion that: ‘ It is not safe for me to use the hob because when in bipolar depression I cannot concentrate enough to complete the task and when in a manic state working with boiling water and **** flames becomes dangerous.’ Should that pass the reliability test? Not been able to do it safely. She has actually burned herself on a few occasions. I also feel that they should have given weight to motivation, concentration, and distraction.

Eating and Drinking. 0 from 8 I feel they should have considered her lack of motivation because of deep depression and the tiredness. Again all mentioned in her application.

Reading 0 from 10 In her submission she stated that when she gets ‘a letter from say Benefits people telling me e.g. about a change in benefits I am getting I have to get help in understanding this Form and what various parts of it means or which applies to me. The main part of why I needed help here was because I just couldn’t concentrate and I became very tired and depressed and afraid I will loose my benefits.’ Could the likes of that possibly cover 8 c or d.

Communicating: 0 from 10. The DM said they decided that she can express and understand verbal information unaided While my friend is more likely to be in a depressed state she wrote that when she is manic she talks at lighting speed and constantly changes subjects. But when she is on a low she just does the bear minimum of talking. She very seldom uses the telephone. When on a high she has got violent and struck me, all this was mentioned in her form.

Making budgeting decisions. 2 from 6 For those with bipolar this, I think, is a big one. The points were for making complex budgeting decisions but in her submission she gave three examples of how she treats money, this was when she was on a high. £80 clothes form second hand shop, £500 to a nephew getting married and £40 to a beggar in the street.

While I will go through the other descriptors these, I feel, would be her strongest points, but please if you have any suggestions about PIP and Bipolar share them.

I not including here anything to do with mobility partly because when we filled the form in the High Court hadn’t declared the effective ban mobility illegal and we didn’t put as much effort into it as we did with the care section.

I would be interested in your views and what the next step should be. That 1 extra point would make all the difference.

Kevin

CockneyRebel

Hi kevin

Starting from the last, HCP & DWP should be assessing both parts of the claim so if mobility, is an issue go for it

Remember that the majority of time comes in force so can you be sure that the descriptors mentioned are apparent for the majority of time ?

CR

mayfair

Hi @kah22 can’t offer any advice but I’m hoping it all works out please keep us updated on how things are progressing.

poppy123456

Only 20% of MR decisions change and she does risk losing everything. That's a big risk in my opinion. Why risk it if you're not planning on taking it to Tribunal. The chances of a Tribunal going in your favour is around 70%, if you appear in person.

At Tribunal, if they were planning on lowering an existing award they have to warn you first. This gives the claimant a chance to cancel the Tribunal before the hearing.

kah22

We’ve applied for a copy of the Assessment Report and a SAR as we are going to MR

Here is a breakdown of the GF assessment

Preparing Food. 2

Eating and Drinking. 0. Not surprised

Mananging Treatments. 1

Washing and Bathing 2

Managing Toilet Needs. 0 Didn’t claim here at all

Dressing and Undressing 2

Communicating 0. This is an issue worth pushing, I think Yes?

Reading 0 again not surprised but would like to here opinions

Mixing With Other People 2

Making Budgeting Decisions (complex) 2 No simple decisions

Zero points for mobility. Again I wasn’t surprised as we had submitted our claim days before the court case result

Initially I wasn’t surprised at the zero points for eating and drinking but then a contributor over on a bipolar Forum said he had actually got 4 points for this. I can see where encouragement can come in. I’m wondering if the descriptor also applies to over eating. When my GF is manic she will hardly eat anything but when in a depressed state she can’t seem to get enough. I’m wondering how to approach this descriptor. Ideas anybody ?

Communication seems a big one for me and I’m stunned that we didn’t get any points there considering we did with mixing with other people. Again I’d appreciate how best to get this across to a DM when you are dealing with a flexible condition like Bipolar

I’m also thinking of making a stronger case for mobility as we did not when filling in the initial Forum. At that stage it seemed mobility was been withheld from those with mental health so we didn’t put that much effort into it , I don’t expect to be awarded anything this time around but I’m putting the information out there for the big review when it starts

Kevin

whistles

Just my two pennies worth.
My award is also 2021, reviewed in two years. I decided to leave it alone. I will have to do all this again in two years anyway.
Having an end date allows me to put a diary together etc.

If you get esa does this not include the premium or has this stopped now?

I wish any one week with the MR. But I left it alone.

kah22

Sorry don’t know about the premium I’m just helping my GF with all the research; she’d never get it completed

Pat the moment my attention is focused on these two descriptors communication and eating a drinking, I be happy to hear your experiences

Kevin

Laurastanners4

I got this text and was surprised. It must have been the extra evidence and ftf Assessments causes me stress.
We've received the written report of your PIP assessment. We will write to you once we've made a decision on your PIP. As a guide you should hear from us within 6 weeks. You don't need to contact us unless any of the details you gave us have changed. Thank you.

poppy123456

Laurastanners4 said:

I got this text and was surprised. It must have been the extra evidence and ftf Assessments causes me stress.
We've received the written report of your PIP assessment. We will write to you once we've made a decision on your PIP. As a guide you should hear from us within 6 weeks. You don't need to contact us unless any of the details you gave us have changed. Thank you.

It's a standard text message that's sent to everyone that puts a mobile number down on the PIP2 form. DWP just keep you updated through out your claim and there's always a report written and returned to DWP decision maker, who then makes a decision.

You can ring DWP and ask for a copy of this report, this will give you some idea what the decision will be. Good luck.

Laurastanners4

Thanks but iam not waiting on the phone to the DWP it causes me stress

Laurastanners4

This is me reapplying before my current award ends no review due to going to tribunal for current award

poppy123456

There's no really any difference, apart from the review form being shorter but you should ignore the shortened version anyway and put down as much information as possible. The process for both is the same.

Yadnad

poppy123456 said:

There's no really any difference, apart from the review form being shorter but you should ignore the shortened version anyway and put down as much information as possible. The process for both is the same.

Is there any basis for saying that? If you are right I don't understand why they don't issue a full PIP2 form. What is the point of a shortened version and how do the DWP expect you to deal with it.

poppy123456

Yadnad said:

poppy123456 said:

There's no really any difference, apart from the review form being shorter but you should ignore the shortened version anyway and put down as much information as possible. The process for both is the same.

Is there any basis for saying that? If you are right I don't understand why they don't issue a full PIP2 form. What is the point of a shortened version and how do the DWP expect you to deal with it.

Yes, the basis is the same reasons why you should always put as much information down on the PIP2 form, there's no difference. The more information you put down the better for you. Why did they bring out the shortened version? I've no idea, but claimants seen through this and realised that ticking the box "no change" can do more harm than good. They state on the review form that there's no need to send in any evidence they've previously seen.. would i listen to that and not send the evidence i sent before? Nope, of course i wouldn't and why wouldn't i? because i'll never ever trust DWP or the HCPs to look back at previous evidence i've sent, they most likely wouldn't in my opinion.

Dealing with it? People don't because they will always worry, panic, have sleepless nights, not eat, experience more anxiety and always ask questions that people just can't answer... for example how long will it take after the assessment to make a decision, how long do i wait for a MR decision, no one can answer those questions because it's the same as asking how long is a piece of string. Basically the worry and stress of reassessments makes people worse than they were to begin with, which means they simply don't deal with it.