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PIP Refused - Unusual Circumstances

OverlyAnxious

Hello there,

This is my first post here, I've read a few posts on various forums about PIP refusal but haven't found anything specific to my situation so far. I've just received my PIP decision with 0 points. I won't be able to go through a tribunal due to my health conditions, but I'm not sure if it's worth trying a mandatory reconsideration. I am currently on ESA in the support group, and receive housing benefit but only at a shared rate due to my age - however with severe contamination OCD and IBS that causes very frequent bathroom visits I have had to live alone in a small studio flat for the last 4 years which costs almost double the LHA now. Due to constantly rising living costs, rent, bills, groceries etc I am now at the point where I simply cannot afford to live anymore purely because of my health conditions so applied for PIP because of this.

Basically I suffer from constant anxiety, OCD, agoraphobia, IBS and potentially ASD (as yet undiagnosed). Due to the difficulties I have around dealing with people socially and the possibility of contamination and illness I have to get through every task on my own, regardless of how difficult I find it. But the PIP descriptors only seem to apply to people that need another persons help to complete the task. For example, I have a lot of difficulty preparing food due to the risk of contamination and injury so rely on simple, mainly frozen, foods that can just be placed on a baking tray without the need for preparation and the potential of further contamination. I can't eat outside of my flat, and I can't eat or prepare food while another person is in the flat let alone allow someone else to prepare food for me (I very rarely have visitors anyway, an hour a fortnight max!). I also have to do all my own grocery shopping to ensure packaging is not damaged and that foods are not left out of the fridge or freezer for long due to the risk of illness. I only buy small amounts at a time to reduce the time in store, only visit when traffic and customer numbers will be light and only ever use self serve checkouts. This is to reduce the risk of personal contamination, IBS and panic attacks, and the amount of time that food is out of the freezer. I thought this sort of thing would gain me some points in the food preparation or dealing with people face to face but apparently not. I don't know whether I'm being unreasonable with this though, hence asking on here? This is just one example, I did fill in other sections as well.

For the above reasons, I also had to fill in the PIP form on my own after being told I could not be helped by the CAB or a local disability charity via email. I was told that I would have to visit them and have to stay for at least 2 hours to complete the form which I am not able to do. I am also unable to use telephones due to the severe anxiety that it causes. I could not have a home visit from a stranger either, as stated above I only have one visitor a fortnight very briefly and find that very difficult. I spent over 8 hours across 7 days filling in the form with as many details as possible so that I could hopefully avoid the need for a F2F assessment. I also wrote in the 'special requirements' box, that if a F2F was absolutely necessary then please make it at a time when traffic and waiting room numbers would be low. I assume they ignored this as they made the appointment for the middle of rush hour!! I was very ill in the days and hours leading up to the assessment but did make it there with 2 minutes to spare - only to be told that the appointment was cancelled last minute as the assessor hadn't turned up. I was then given the option to return 2 hours later or phone up to make another appointment. As I'm unable to use phones I had to take the least worst option and return 2 hours later, I spent the next hour in the bathroom at home and then managed to return just in time, where I then had to wait 15 minutes while the assessor read the form!? I arrived alone, due to reasons detailed above, and this was of course used against me as expected. However the assessor also believes that I came across as 'normal' except a little tense and stressed which I don't believe - I do try to maintain a 'solid' exterior as I'm guessing a lot of us do, but that is very different to what's going on inside, relatives have also commented about my lacking social skills with eye contact and processing speeds etc.

Sorry for such a large post but I hope it makes some sense lol. I just wondered what you think my next move should be now, if MR is worth trying, with the knowledge that I won't be able to follow it up with tribunal if that fails. And if so, how I could help them to understand my circumstances?

Thanks,
OA

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OverlyAnxious

JumpingJames said:

I have very very similar conditions to you and was awarded PIP so it is possible but I had to go to tribunal (but did not attend for the reasons you stated).

Do you mind me asking which parts you were awarded points for in the end? The more I read the descriptors (now I know they're separate from the questions!) the more I'm struggling to work out if I really fit into any of them. It comes back to the question in my original post really - the descriptors all seem to need another person (or physical aid) to help with these things, but because I get through on my own I don't see how I'll be awarded anything.

OverlyAnxious

Also just to update the thread, the assessment report should be in the post on it's way to me now in case I do go for an MR.

poppy123456

You really can't compare anyone else to yourself. Even someone with the same conditions could well be affected very differently.

You an have a disability but not be entitled to PIP because if those descriptors don't apply to you, you won't score the points for an award.

Pipquestions2

OverlyAnxious said:

JumpingJames said:

I have very very similar conditions to you and was awarded PIP so it is possible but I had to go to tribunal (but did not attend for the reasons you stated).

Do you mind me asking which parts you were awarded points for in the end? The more I read the descriptors (now I know they're separate from the questions!) the more I'm struggling to work out if I really fit into any of them. It comes back to the question in my original post really - the descriptors all seem to need another person (or physical aid) to help with these things, but because I get through on my own I don't see how I'll be awarded anything.

It's also worth mentioning that you might not have someone/something to help you, but you need it, then you will still get points. It's not about the help you get, it's about the help you need.

You might not even realise yourself areas that you should actually get aid in because you're so used to it. Eg if your so depressed you don't have any motivation to do things, even though you don't get any help you would still need help in the form of prompting. The prompting descriptor doesn't require someone to come up to you and tell you exactly what you have to do it's more complex than that.

Reading the descriptors at face value can be misleading because they have "hidden" meanings that are more complicated to understand that's why you probably need face to face advice to help you understand the descriptors and which ones you meet.

You said you had agoraphobia for example, based off that alone your probably likely to get points for planning a journey. Of course you might not get any but I'd say odds are in favour of it. But you would have to explain what happens when your out alone (are you alone?), If this happens in familiar or unfamiliar places, if you panic explain what happens when you panic. Does it keep you housebound? Explain this aswell. Does it get worse when you're around people?

Then you said you have trouble being around people. This will probably net you points for engaging with others face to face you need to explain this aswell because even though you may not get help to do this, If you have as much trouble as I'm assuming from your posts, then you most likely do need help you just don't fully realise it.

You should focus on the descriptors but if you don't understand what they mean you should get face to face advice or explain how it effects you in as much detail as possible in a general sense

OverlyAnxious

Pipquestions2 said:

It's also worth mentioning that you might not have someone/something to help you, but you need it, then you will still get points. It's not about the help you get, it's about the help you need.

You might not even realise yourself areas that you should actually get aid in because you're so used to it. Eg if your so depressed you don't have any motivation to do things, even though you don't get any help you would still need help in the form of prompting. The prompting descriptor doesn't require someone to come up to you and tell you exactly what you have to do it's more complex than that.

Reading the descriptors at face value can be misleading because they have "hidden" meanings that are more complicated to understand that's why you probably need face to face advice to help you understand the descriptors and which ones you meet.

You said you had agoraphobia for example, based off that alone your probably likely to get points for planning a journey. Of course you might not get any but I'd say odds are in favour of it. But you would have to explain what happens when your out alone (are you alone?), If this happens in familiar or unfamiliar places, if you panic explain what happens when you panic. Does it keep you housebound? Explain this aswell. Does it get worse when you're around people?

Then you said you have trouble being around people. This will probably net you points for engaging with others face to face you need to explain this aswell because even though you may not get help to do this, If you have as much trouble as I'm assuming from your posts, then you most likely do need help you just don't fully realise it.

You should focus on the descriptors but if you don't understand what they mean you should get face to face advice or explain how it effects you in as much detail as possible in a general sense

Thanks again, I wish I'd joined this forum before filling in the original PIP form lol!

Getting face to face advice is probably the best way to go but it's extremely difficult in my position. I can get to the local disability advice centre, but probably not on time due to IBS physically stopping me leaving the bathroom, and once I'm there it's 50/50 whether I'll actually be able to go inside or not. Then trying to deal directly with a person face to face is more than I can cope with on top of that. I have very little medical history because of this, on the rare occasion I can get into the doctors surgery (severe contamination OCD & medical/illness phobias), I can't really speak to them once I'm there, but I do completely understand that they, and any assessors, can only go on what I do say, not what's left stuck inside my head. I've also tried CBT twice in a non-medical environment but had exactly the same problem and only managed 2 sessions before having to give it up as it was making things worse. It's not just the mental side stopping me getting words out either, dealing with people (any people, including my own relatives) makes me feel very nauseous and causes a tight throat and reflux which physically stops me being able to speak without going to gag so I just end up giving nods or one word answers most of the time. It also makes me have to keep swallowing which of course adds fluid and air to the stomach which just makes it all worse so I try to limit visits with my Mum or Nan to just half an hour or so, and then have to put up with hours of a sore throat and stomach issues afterwards. Trouble is, I can't even explain this to the person I'm trying to speak to, partly because it's embarrassing and I don't want them to feel responsible for my body's poor functionality, but also because I can't even say the word 'nausea' without feeling really ill! I've tried writing letters to various Doctors but never really got very far with it because they only want to deal with speech, either face to face or on the telephone, which is useless for me sadly, I get the same thing on the telephone as I do in person.

I am diagnosed with agoraphobia, although I'd never even considered it before the diagnosis because I'm not actually housebound and never have been. The irony is I'm also very claustrophobic as well!! I find leaving the house very difficult, I can't travel far and can't stay out for long. CBT theory says the anxiety should eventually drop but with me it just keeps rising and rising until I have a meltdown, fortunately I have just made it home in time not to have a meltdown in public view so far, but it's always on my mind and I do roughly know my limits, but they're getting shorter. I'm also constantly worried about soiling myself due to the IBS while out, or getting ill or injured in thousands of different ways, I suffer with strong sensory overload (lights, sounds, motion, colours etc), I can't cope with crowds or a lot of things going on at once. This was diagnosed as agoraphobia but I've never been particularly happy with that diagnosis myself. Having said all that, I do force myself out at least 3 times a week, and I do drive short distances, both of which mean I'm not entitled to any journey/planning points as far as I understand. And definitely not the 8 points that I'd need to get the mobility part anyway. I have to go out on my own, I can't cope with going out with another person (relative etc) as that just adds extra anxiety and massively reduces the amount of time that I can cope with the situation. I also can't take public transport, including taxis or lifts, so have to rely on my car and ability to drive, though I do live within walking distance of a supermarket in case I am ever stopped from driving on mental grounds.

The food preparation descriptor is one I'm struggling to understand. I am able to sustain myself with simple meals by just placing something in the oven. It does take me longer than a normal person due to excessive handwashing rituals and having to separately open each packet and open drawers & cupboards etc so I can then 'prepare' by only touching the food and utensils without having to touch anything that could be contaminated. I can't handle raw meat/fish/egg at all due to contamination fears and I can't prep raw veg due to fears of injury with sharp knives and peelers etc. So it depends how far in depth they go with this, I do know someone else with similar contamination OCD who got the full 8 points for not being able to prepare food at all...but I can't say I totally agree with that either as they live alone and do basic meals the same as I do.

Pipquestions2

@OverlyAnxious you need to explain WHY you can't do it though, not just "well I can't mix with people cause of anxiety", you need to explain exactly what happens when you do mix with people. Although things like this will be noticeable at Tribunal anyways, it's worth writing down.

I don't know much about IBS tbh, or if it's worth mentioning in terms of the descriptors (someone else will be able to correct me if I'm wrong). How often are you having to rush to the toilet? How often are you here? Are you in pain? simply writing "I'm late to appointments cause I'm on the toilet" probably won't get you any points.

I know exactly how it feels with the lack of medical evidence. I got quite lucky I was forced into hospital and have hospital records describing my problems because of the way I acted in hospital as a result of being left alone and my anxiety getting worse not long before I applied for PIP. Those were the only real evidence I said, plus a few other letters from doctors.

You said you've been to CBT but had to give it up. Why did you have to give it up? simply saying "it made me worse" won't be good enough, you have to explain specifically why it made you worse, what you did, how you reacted. Go into as much depth as possible. This would come under mixing with people.

You need to write the problems getting words out and with your throat under communication. If someone kept asking you the same question and demanded an answer out of you, which you struggled to answer, what would happen? how do you react? this is the kind of thing you have to write down to explain how your communication problems effect you. The stuff you write about doctor's is exactly my position aswell, I find it hard and because of that there's really not much in my medical record. Luckily my Doctor's know me and know my problems and I don't have to really explain it to her if I need something. She does try to push me into explaining it but when she sees me struggle she says okay it's fine I'll do it basically.

I agree it sounds like you would probably get 4 points for planning a journey.

Food one is difficult but it depends. You say fear of injury, have you ever injured yourself? what makes you think you're gonna injure yourself?

You're explaining your problems but for a lot of it, you aren't really explaining the why, and the why is what PIP is focused on.

poppy123456

IBS may score points for managing toilet needs.

‘Toilet needs’ is defined as:

(a) getting on and off an unadapted toilet;

(b) evacuating the bladder and bowel; and

Help is needed with managing toileting if a claimant needs assistance with one or more of these 3 actions.

It's not taken into consideration for any other activity.

JumpingJames

I will not say on a thread but I will in private message.

poppy123456

JumpingJames said:

I will not say on a thread but I will in private message.

Unfortunately, you need to have made 25 posts before you can private message others on the forum.

OverlyAnxious

poppy123456 said:

IBS may score points for managing toilet needs.
‘Toilet needs’ is defined as:

(a) getting on and off an unadapted toilet;

(b) evacuating the bladder and bowel; and

(c) cleaning oneself afterwards.

Help is needed with managing toileting if a claimant needs assistance with one or more of these 3 actions.
It's not taken into consideration for any other activity.

Yeah, I won't score any points for that, again it's about the physical help you need rather than the frequency of bathroom visits, even if you can't always make it in time.

katiesymon

Do you make it to ESA Assessments ? Maybe you don't have them too often but have they arisen ? Its a hard question if you cant go to a hearing. The question would be then is how much is PIP ? Is it worth the worry and anxiety. If it is then do the MR.

OverlyAnxious

Pipquestions2 said:

@OverlyAnxious you need to explain WHY you can't do it though, not just "well I can't mix with people cause of anxiety", you need to explain exactly what happens when you do mix with people. Although things like this will be noticeable at Tribunal anyways, it's worth writing down.

I don't know much about IBS tbh, or if it's worth mentioning in terms of the descriptors (someone else will be able to correct me if I'm wrong). How often are you having to rush to the toilet? How often are you here? Are you in pain? simply writing "I'm late to appointments cause I'm on the toilet" probably won't get you any points.

I know exactly how it feels with the lack of medical evidence. I got quite lucky I was forced into hospital and have hospital records describing my problems because of the way I acted in hospital as a result of being left alone and my anxiety getting worse not long before I applied for PIP. Those were the only real evidence I said, plus a few other letters from doctors.

You said you've been to CBT but had to give it up. Why did you have to give it up? simply saying "it made me worse" won't be good enough, you have to explain specifically why it made you worse, what you did, how you reacted. Go into as much depth as possible. This would come under mixing with people.

You need to write the problems getting words out and with your throat under communication. If someone kept asking you the same question and demanded an answer out of you, which you struggled to answer, what would happen? how do you react? this is the kind of thing you have to write down to explain how your communication problems effect you. The stuff you write about doctor's is exactly my position aswell, I find it hard and because of that there's really not much in my medical record. Luckily my Doctor's know me and know my problems and I don't have to really explain it to her if I need something. She does try to push me into explaining it but when she sees me struggle she says okay it's fine I'll do it basically.

I agree it sounds like you would probably get 4 points for planning a journey.

Food one is difficult but it depends. You say fear of injury, have you ever injured yourself? what makes you think you're gonna injure yourself?

You're explaining your problems but for a lot of it, you aren't really explaining the why, and the why is what PIP is focused on.

Ok, so when trying to mix with people I feel very wobbly and shaky, my heart races and my breathing gets very short and sharp. I get fuzzy vision, nausea, light headed, reflux. I feel a slight constant motion (a bit like vertigo but while on the ground) along with other motions that aren't there, such as suddenly feeling like 'dropping' through the floor, being picked up and pushed forward or a solid floor feeling 'spongy' under foot. All of which makes me feel like I will fall or pass out. This is also often what triggers IBS and the sudden need to evacuate bowels, presumably it's too overwhelming for my brain to cope with.

IBS is about a lot more than just frequent toilet visits, but it's not uncommon for me to have to go 5-10 times on a fairly average day with either diahorrea and constipation, and never knowing which it's going to be (sorry TMI!). I also suffer from what I'll call an IBS attack which is absolutely horrendous for someone that can't cope with illness at all. They used to be fairly few and far between but are now happening once a week on average. These last for several hours and along with having to suddenly and urgently pass large amounts of stool & water without warning, it also makes me feel very nauseous with fuzzy vision and a strong sensitivity to light and motion even in my own home, it causes bowel cramps and spasms which are extremely uncomfortable, I get very bloated with both gas and liquid which can cause such bad pain that I can barely walk from my chair to the toilet. After the event I suffer from extreme fatigue and it can take days to recover. These can also last well through the night stopping me being able to sleep. However, while that is what helped me to get ESA for being unable to work, it's totally irrelevant for PIP sadly.

With the CBT, just knowing I'd have to go again in under a weeks time was causing me such severe anxiety and IBS at home that it stopped me being able to go anywhere else during the week, I couldn't sleep for more than an hour or so each night, and I ended up being 30 minutes late to the 2nd appointment due to IBS physically stopping me leaving and agoraphobia mentally stopping me leaving. I was unable to get to the 3rd one at all. Oddly, I find the first time of anything the easiest. I think it's because every event I try goes badly and worse than I expected, so the first time I can fool myself into thinking it won't be so bad...after that first time I know exactly how bad it's going to be! Explaining how these things affect me are definitely not easy though, and I do realise that only I can do that part lol.

I honestly don't know how I'd react if someone kept demanding an answer, I'm trying to think of a scenario where that may have happened. I'd probably get up and run if I felt like I was being pressured into an answer that I just couldn't get out. I wouldn't get violent or anything like that so there'd be no risk to anyone.

4 points for planning a journey isn't helpful unfortunately. Because that's part of mobility, I'd need 8 points there to get any award at all as I don't have any physical mobility issues with walking etc.

Injury one is a hard one to explain without people thinking I'm gonna top myself (I'm not, I couldn't cope with failing and just getting injured, but I wouldn't complain if I was to just go in my sleep!). Basically I can't cope with having to be alive and owning a body, I can't cope with the 'processes' it has to go through constantly, I can't cope with bodily fluids, and noises, and things coming out of various orifices, or things having to be put into it constantly, I just get by one day& at a time, sometimes just one hour at a time, but really cannot cope when things go wrong with it (even things that seem small to other people like a minor cut or a cold), I'm constantly dreading the day where something goes so badly wrong that I need another person to give medical help or have to go into a hospital. I'm very squeamish (there must be an actual medical word for that lol?), I can't even stand looking at my own body parts (eyes, teeth, cuts/bruises, etc) in the mirror let alone other peoples. I can't stand blood or needles, I actually came over funny just typing that!! Last injection I had caused me to pass out which resulted in carpet burn across my face...an open wound potentially contaminated by a public carpet! So I actively avoid anything that could cause me harm, although obviously in the real world that is totally impossible so I just have to work with a certain level of risk (causing constant anxiety) but trying not to add any extra risk to that. I could risk chopping a carrot, but the overwhelming fear there is that I slip with a sharp knife and cause myself an injury that I can't cope with, and would potentially need medical attention for. I also get intrusive visions of the thing that I'm dreading happening, so if I was to try chopping the carrot I'd be constantly seeing myself slipping with the knife, which leads to a lack of concentration and ultimately often does end in injury, albeit 'minor' so far.

I wish I could find a Doctor that does understand my problems, I didn't go for well over 10 years, but when I did I wished I hadn't! Once I finally found one that had a small amount of understanding she left soon after and I was moved onto another that seemed to have no idea of mental issues at all. He couldn't understand why someone with contamination OCD and a fear or injury & illness wouldn't be able to get to the surgery in the middle of winter flu season!!

Sorry, I'm rambling again lol! I really do appreciate all the help and advice on here so far though!

OverlyAnxious

katiesymon said:

Do you make it to ESA Assessments ? Maybe you don't have them too often but have they arisen ? Its a hard question if you cant go to a hearing. The question would be then is how much is PIP ? Is it worth the worry and anxiety. If it is then do the MR.

ESA assessments are a bit of a sore point with me! The first experience I had with ESA was not a good one, I was treated very poorly and felt extremely embarrassed and like a massive burden after trying to hand in a printed and fully filled ESA form as I can't use phones. I was given the wrong information, told I'd have to wait there for several minutes while someone else phoned it through (instead of being able to post it) and my personal issues were shouted across the open plan room to other staff. In the end I was sent to another department in a different building where they took literally seconds to take the form and put it in a mail bag which they should have done in the first place!

Then sadly I was called to a face to face assessment. I was left waiting in a crowded, town centre, open plan office well past my appointment time, not told what was causing the wait or how long it might be. In the end I had to leave urgently, got stuck in rush hour traffic and soiled myself on the way home.

This event knocked me back so much that I was unable to reach the centre for several weeks afterwards. I sent an email explaining this and was awarded ESA without a F2F assessment.

Last year, the Doctor I mentioned in the above post decided he wouldn't sign me off for that years ESA form without me visiting the surgery in the middle of winter flu season. I tried explaining via email and post that I was unable to do that because of my conditions but they clearly had no understanding of this and just kept pushing. I understand it's a requirement for them to see the patient within 6 months or so, but I had literally been there 3 months earlier and he had just forgotten!! (He was also absolutely useless at that appointment as well, and I have now changed to another Dr). In the end I was forced to go to (my first) ESA assessment about 3 months later. Fortunately the waiting times weren't too long this time and the waiting room was fairly empty, cool and quiet so I did manage to get into that assessment but it still caused me an awful lot of stress which has long lasting effects. The ESA assessor couldn't understand why I was there and why the Dr has caused so much trouble with it!

I don't believe PIP is worth all this worry and hassle...but I'm literally at the point where I can't afford to live on what I get and don't know what else I can try. I already severely limit groceries and fuel, and don't buy anything other than those, I don't drink or smoke or anything like that. I couldn't afford to have the heating on after February. And since a recent rent increase and further electricity & grocery increases I'm really struggling even in the middle of summer...I don't know how I'll get through winter without some extra income. If PIP does fail the only other thing I can try is a discretionary housing payment to cover the extra rent that I am currently having to take out of the ESA. But I've read that the DHP isn't really meant for health issues and it's also only a short term thing while the claimant seeks affordable accommodation. There is no affordable accommodation for me because I'm only allowed a shared amount but can't share due to my conditions. As a man, I'd have to be 35 before being allowed enough rent to cover single person accommodation and I'm a long way off of that. I am also checking for cheaper studio flats every day but there aren't any, which isn't really surprising as this was the cheapest when I originally moved here.

OverlyAnxious

UPDATE - I've read through the assessment report now - I can understand why I wasn't awarded anything tbh, there's not a huge amount in it relating to the descriptors, partly my fault for the paper part (I wrote a novel hoping to avoid a F2F, didn't know it was meant to be brief and didn't know about the differences between questions and descriptors) and partly the F2F which I obviously didn't do well because of my conditions. Although I did get one laugh from the report...it says I can't use 'pubic transport'...which isn't wrong, as a contamination OCD sufferer I struggle with handshakes let alone the thought of touching 'pubic' transport...

On a serious note though, would any of the more experienced members on here have a quick read of my MR before I send it? I know I'll have to make a few more posts first.

poppy123456

OverlyAnxious said:

On a serious note though, would any of the more experienced members on here have a quick read of my MR before I send it? I know I'll have to make a few more posts first.

I'm afraid no one will be able to do that because we don't know exactly how your conditions affect you against the PIP descriptors. Just make sure that you've added at least a couple of real life examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity for each descriptor that applies to you. Good luck.

Pipquestions2

OverlyAnxious said:

UPDATE - I've read through the assessment report now - I can understand why I wasn't awarded anything tbh, there's not a huge amount in it relating to the descriptors, partly my fault for the paper part (I wrote a novel hoping to avoid a F2F, didn't know it was meant to be brief and didn't know about the differences between questions and descriptors) and partly the F2F which I obviously didn't do well because of my conditions. Although I did get one laugh from the report...it says I can't use 'pubic transport'...which isn't wrong, as a contamination OCD sufferer I struggle with handshakes let alone the thought of touching 'pubic' transport...

On a serious note though, would any of the more experienced members on here have a quick read of my MR before I send it? I know I'll have to make a few more posts first.

What poppy said really, the best thing is to focus on the descriptors and read/ask on this forum to understand what they actually mean to see if you actually fit them or not and then list examples of your difficulties relating to the descriptors. The only thing people can really do to help is answer wether your troubles, as described by you, fit the descriptors or not.

Don't be in a rush, read what you've written multiple times over and maybe even make a diary of your day/week just incase you missed anything.

Also, "can't" not "won't". I think this is important and you see a lot of people using them interchangeably.

The important thing to remember is that the MR probably will stay the same and nothing will change no matter what you write or send in but it's good to write it all down and send evidence of it where possible because the tribunal will get this too. Tribunal is what you should be focused on to be honest, that's where you're most likely to get points and be awarded PIP at this stage.

I scored 0 at assessment, 0 at MR and won PIP at tribunal. The tribunal did nothing different except ask me questions relating to what I wrote on the MR form. My answers were the same as I wrote down so really absolutely nothing changed other than tribunal correcting my award.

It's a difficult and stressful process but you do seem to have an understanding of PIP now so I'm sure you'll have no trouble writing a good MR. The hardest part for you now will be getting the evidence to back up what you've said. Letters from the doctors, reports from your medical record etc can come in handy here.

OverlyAnxious

Pipquestions2 said:

The hardest part for you now will be getting the evidence to back up what you've said. Letters from the doctors, reports from your medical record etc can come in handy here.

No worries, I do understand everyone's claim and abilities are different.

I can't get any extra evidence unfortunately, there simply isn't any! I've rarely been to the Doctor's at all and when I have been they haven't understood the issues anyway. So all I have is the stuff I sent in before, a fit note (with diagnosis) and a mental assessment from 3 years ago. I don't have anything more recent and even if they ask my current Dr, I've only seen him once and that was for something irrelevant to PIP anyway. I know they have no reason to believe me without any evidence but short of wearing a GoPro to record my day I don't see how I can find anything else.

poppy123456

A fit note is not classed as evidence for the purpose of PIP because PIP isn't about not being able to work. People claim PIP and work.

OverlyAnxious

poppy123456 said:

A fit note is not classed as evidence for the purpose of PIP because PIP isn't about not being able to work. People claim PIP and work.

That's a shame, it's the only thing I've got from a Doctor with a diagnosis on so thought it might be of some use.

The Doctor that issued it is the only one I've seen that had some idea of my problems but she left about 2 years ago due to her own disability so I can't even ask her for any evidence.

poppy123456

A fit note is only used for ESA or universal credit purposes for those that have a limited capability for work. Although because it's 2 years old, it wouldn't be accepted for that either. Even then it's not classed as evidence.