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Won appeal but DWP say may be appealing tribunal decision

Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
Hi I am new to the group but would really appreciate any feedback on my current situation. I received my PIP form to fill in after previously being on DLA, in June last year. Completed and returned it and was sent for an assessment in August last year. I received only 4 points on care and nil on mobility. I applied for a mandatory consideration, no change. I then put in to appeal, which was accepted. I forwarded quite a few letters etc from doctors, psychotherapist and consultants. I was supported by a mental health advocate and the Citizens Advice Bureau. After many months of waiting I finally got my appeal date for 4 April this year. I found the whole procedure very distressing as I terrible anxiety. Having got through the Tribunal I was ecstatic to hear I had won ,I was awarded 6 points for care and 12 for mobility. I left the courts feeling like a weight had been taken off my shoulders .This great  feeling lasted until the 6 April, two days later I received a letter from the DWP to say they were appealing the Courts decision. I couldn't believe it, I felt it was so cruel to do this, and if an appeal was going to be considered they should have told me before I Ieft. To date I have received no more communication and it is a month tomorrow since I received the letter. I am now once again in limbo and feeling extremely anxious. Has anyone else had this experience or does anyone know the length of time I am liable to wait before hearing something. Sorry for the long explanation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 


  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @Rosie2017, I'm so sorry to hear this sad story. I hope anyone reading this takes note as I have heard before that the DWP can appeal the court's decision. However you need to find out what is happening for the sake of your health this is an intolerable situation to be in. I suggest you contact the people who helped you at Tribunal especially the CAB to support you and help you to clarify what is going on unless you feel able to do it yourself. I would ring the tribunal service and see if they've heard anything from the DWP. The number will be on your correspondence about the Appeal you went to in April. If they haven't heard anything then they might be able to reassure you that no appeal is being made and advise you what to do. I would be careful about ringing DWP even though they sent you a letter as you might be causing an appeal rather than stopping it. I'll leave someone else advise you further as I've never been in this situation. Good Luck. I hope you get this sorted out soon... 
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me. The CAB do know about it but said it could take some time The DWP sent to the Tribunal for the ' Statement of Reasons' the same day I won the appeal, I also forgot to say they did attend my Tribunal. I may try and get my mental health advocate to ring the Tribunal, I don't think I could do this myself. I have no intention of contacting the DWP as the very thought of communicating with them makes me feel ill. It's the waiting again that is the worst, feels like it will never end. Any further information from anyone would be appreciated. Thanks.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Rosie2017 So glad you've got people who will help. There will be some benefit advisors around tomorrow who will know more about this situation than I do. It would be interesting to know how often this happens and what DWP hope to achieve by doing this. It shouldn't be allowed to happen... 
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    I have heard from CAB that they are going to be sending more representatives from the DWP to appeals and there was also a trainee with the woman from the DWP so that does seem likely. If you do find out anything tomorrow I would be very grateful if  you could let me know. I will also keep you up to date if I do hear anything or find out anything else. Thanks again.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger

    Sorry to hear that the DWP are appealing the tribunal's decision.  Even if they go ahead, they might not win.  

    Suggest that you re-post your questions and concerns in 'Ask a benefits advisor' category.
  • mssissippi1952mssissippi1952 Member Posts: 23 Listener
    That's terrible,what I don't understand after the appeal that's it you can't appeal again there's only the upper tribunal and that's for legal,matters.if you can't appeal DWP shouldn't be able to
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    This highlights what I've been trying to say. I did not give up trying to change the decision before going to Appeal and I got it changed. I know some people have been turned down on their 3rd attempt i.e.2nd MR but if you're successful DWP aren't going to Appeal because they're the people who changed it. I would say to make a complaint as early as you can about your assessment report if you're not happy with it. Tell DWP you've done that and write to them as many times as you need to with new evidence. 
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    Hi my mental health advocate rang the Tribunal today as suggested by 'wildlife' and at moment my Statement of Reasons is still at the Tribunal awaiting a judges signature. It will then be sent to the DWP who have a month from the date on the Statement of Reasons to decide if they want to appeal my winning my appeal. To appeal the DWP must find an error in law, and not dispute a finding of fact e.g. they can't appeal if, for instance if I said I couldn't wash my own hair and they think I can. I hope I am making sense here! If they do decide to appeal it has to be accepted before being sent to the Upper Tribunal. Whew,  that's as far as can find out at this time. So it's back to the waiting game and it will soon be a year since I first filled in the PIP claim form.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Rosie2017, So pleased you have found out exactly where you stand. If DWP can only appeal a point of law it changes things completely. Provided the Tribunal panel made their decision within the law which, with a judge on the panel, is more likely than not you are safe. I'm wondering what the letter said that you got 2 days after the Tribunal that scared you so much. As there was no Appeal by DWP about to happen and if it said there was that's another thing that needs to change. To have felt the relief of winning at appeal only to be knocked back again there are no words to say how disgusting it is to be treated like that...
  • richarj1richarj1 Member Posts: 6 Listener
    Hi, in exactly same position. Do you have an update?
  • jackofjackof Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Does anyone know where I can look at a mock assessors report for pip so I will have some basic idea what to look for
  • BellamoffatBellamoffat Member Posts: 2 Listener
    My son going through the same it's been 5 weeks since it went to a judge and haven't heard anything yet
  • Barrylad1957Barrylad1957 Member Posts: 100 Courageous
    Sounds a bit like this is the DWP's latest attempt to 'raise the stakes' in the ongoing reports on the large percentage of appeals and reconsiderations that are currently ending up in the claimant's favour. Its not good propaganda for the Disability Unfriendly current 'government' to see so many of their psychopathic and draconian decisions overturned by the law of the land, maybe.
  • Evie12Evie12 Member Posts: 1 Listener
    Hi Im new on here but my husband is going through the exact same as Rosie2017 He went to tribunal 2 weeks ago only to recieve a letter Monday stating DWP will be asking courts for a statement of reasons and may appeal the decision. This past year has been so stressful for my husband and family and he has since been put on citalopram for anxiety, all the stress was causing him to have more seizures than usual as he suffers from 2 forms of epilepsy. I find it disgusting that someone can threaten appeal who never even bothered to turn up on the day. My Husband has a representative from the councils benefits maximization team and she said this happens a lot. I suffer anxiety myself and feel sick to the stomach with this whole process. It's truly terrible how these people are treating the disabled. I wish the best of luck to anyone going through the same at the moment and please keep us updated, as will I.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger

    DWP are threatening more and more often to appeal but as they can only appeal on an error of law rarely do they have grounds to do so. Therefore I wouldn't worry.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    The DWP request a SOR from the judge more often now. This can take a long time to be produced, in some cases months but this is down to the judge.
    There is seldom an error of law which is the only way the DWP can appeal the decision.
    There is no point ringing the DWP. until they receive the SOR, which you should get a copy of .
    Your only course of action is to ring the tribunal clerk who may be able to hurry the judge up. Four weeks would be a reasonable time to wait. Depending on the response you get it may then be worth involving your MP.

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • rosie55rosie55 Member Posts: 40 Listener
    Hi I've just gone through all this .
    Went to tribunal beginning of July.
    Dwp attended and conceaded on the points. Few days later got the letter saying they are considering appealing .
    Took a good 4 til 5 weeks for sor and a few weeks for them to decide and it then go into payment .Did have mps help though . More common now with sors but try not to worry x
  • jackie27jackie27 Member Posts: 21 Connected
    Won appeal 4july now 17september  still not heard law centre don't want to help  going to give up to tried 

  • rosie55rosie55 Member Posts: 40 Listener
    Contact your local mp x
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Contact the tribunal clerk for an update

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • jjdd70jjdd70 Member Posts: 64 Courageous
    my husbands took over 8 weeks for judge to do SOR only received it yesterday dated 19th september so again 28 days to wait and see fingers crossed last hurdle feeling knackered now 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    So pleased for you Rosie.
    Very soon the judges are going to get p****d off with all the SOR requests

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    Thank you CockneyRebel.  It seems the DWP just don't want to accept they are wrong and continue to cause so much worry, anxiety and stress to people already suffering through ill health in the first place.  And I understand how you feel jjdd70 the whole process exhausts you and I think they hope you will eventually give up. I advise anyone going through the process to try and get help from the Citizens Advice Bureau or Welfare Rights who have been a godsend for me. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Rosie2017 So pleased for you but on the other hand you should not have had to go through this. Anyhow it's over so you can now relax and enjoy life as best you can..x
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
  • clark30clark30 Member Posts: 25 Connected
    I’m having the same problem myself at the min was awarded it then went to first tier tribunal won that then dwp want sor now was told to ring dwp on the 23 Oct this year  to see what happens then 
  • tsr157tsr157 Member Posts: 1 Listener
    hi all , just got my tribunal date 9/10/17 esa missed appointment to med assessment in aprill,  suffer with long term mental health issues, spoke to prime minister on leaders special question time about mental health and the assessment hopefully i will win, but even if not we need to form a group to stop this happening to others , i have local mp waiting to act after court case ,,, legal thing apprantly she cant get involved , will updated on outcome , cant believe they still use snail mail in this day and age of email , even job centre text me appointments so why cant the whole DWP ? 
  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
    Rosie2017, glad to hear you got it sorted. I feel they should be paying compensation for the hurt and upset this whole procedure is causing but money would not reverse the damage done to me and others.
    My person who was an advocate working with Community Guidance was told PIP tribunals do not allow advocates, nobody may speak for us.
    So many lies and misleading things right through the PIP thing, who to believe?
  • SlayerXSlayerX Member Posts: 7 Listener
    The DWP would rather kill people via stress and worry than pay them.

    And this is just a guess, but it sounds extremely doubtful that the DWP could enter the courts and win.

    Glad it all worked out for you.
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    Just a update to let you know that although I had an advocate with me at the appeal she was not allowed to speak. Apparently they have taken away the funding for assisting people with DWP assessments or appeals. Another way of making it harder to get any help. 

    Unfortunately 6 weeks after finally being awarded my PIP I then received an Esa assessment form. I completed the form, as you all know not an easy task, and posted it a month ago. I included most of the letters I used in my PIP appeal and hope these will suffice. So it's back to waiting to see if I will now have to go for another assessment as it's 18 months since the last esa assessment. It's never ending and I am trying not to get in a state of anxiety and worry but it's difficult. Just hanging on in there hoping I won't have to go through another year like the last one! 
    Good luck to everyone having to take on the DWP and I will keep you updated 
  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
    Yes, my advocate was told we may no longer have an advocate but may have a companion or carer in the room beside us. So he no longer works as a guidance counsellor. CAB is a bit behind with their guidance.
    Do they tell you the decision while you wait or do you have to wait for a letter 3 days later? It says both in the CAB page, to start it says you leave the room and they call you back for the verdict and lower down it says you go home and wait for a letter. One part says it starts paying out immediately, and back dated, then another says it might need another form to get it.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Sometimes the tribunal ask the appellant to wait while they make their decision and then call you back.  That's what they did with me.  But other times they send the decision through the post a few days later.  This might be due to shortage of time on the day.

    They started my new payment rates three weeks after the tribunal, around the time they paid me the backdated money as well.

    Unfortunately, sometimes DWP say they are thinking of appealing the tribunal's decision and are going to ask the judge for a statement of reasons (SOR).  DWP can only appeal on an error of law, not because they disagree with the decision, and it is unusual for them to find one.

  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    Hi I was asked by the Tribunal if I wanted to wait for my decision or have it sent by post. I decided to wait, it was about 15 minutes then I got called back into the courtroom and they told me then. I think in normal circumstances i.e. the DWP don't appeal against the courts decision your money is paid backdated to the day you applied for it quite quickly and then monthly in arrears. I hope this helps. 
  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
    Oh right, thanks. The CAB guidance page is quite contradictory on that, I shall wait and find out on the day.
    i am getting quite nervous about this getting the documents correct, NI number and name on the top of each page etc. Sending it in a week before by snail mail is tricky because of getting to a post box.
    It says I have to read through ALL the court papers again. They have been here for months, I am sure I read them through once but forget what they said or everything now.
  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
    It is possible the DWP can claim the 1948 Act saying the contributions based state pension must never be thought of or treated as a benefit is null and void and it is a benefit and you can't have two benefits. But OPAS said it has to be only a pension because the government back then refused a fund being acquired and set up for paying out immediately - it's complicated. Life is complicated - ugh.
  • bubblerbubbler Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I had to go out the room and come back about 10 mins later for the verdict, I had my solicitor with me and he was allowed in and to speak. But two days later I got the letter telling me they're appealing.
  • bubblerbubbler Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Also the letter says you can't change the decision by calling them, I called them and after telling the first rude person to get the supervisor she said "it's not worth it as she'll say the same thing" I eventually got to speak to the supervisor and as it's the Mobility part they're appealing against I was paid the care side backdated. So it may be worthwhile asking which part are they appealin. A couple of days later they called back to say i should get the result by Xmas, here's the strange bit, they said they had a look at my case and can't see why it was being appealed against. So is it they're just holding your money back to put you off? Or is it just punishing us?
  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
    This makes me feel like a freak in their circus ring, the clown.
    When they say, "by Christmas" remember that in 1914 people said the Great War would be over by Christmas so you should ask, which Christmas?
    I am now told it will be done by Christmas.
    Bubbler, were there any DWP people attending your tribunal?
  • bubblerbubbler Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Yes and after being asked if they had anything to add they said no so why try appeal? They'll never get a court to admit they're either wrong or biased, it's just another  one of their tactic's to make sure we either kill ourselves of feel so low that next time we won't bother appeal. I literally just hot the copy from the tribunal of reasons why I was awarded and I can't see anyway they can possibly appear against that!
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    They can only appeal if there is an ' error in law' and as you have a judge at the Tribunal this is pretty unlikely, although I know from experience that this will not stop you worrying. They can't appeal because you have said something and they don't agree with it e.g. you say you can't wash your own hair and they think you can.  So they are just using delaying tactics at the expense of our mental health. 
  • bubblerbubbler Member Posts: 10 Listener
    This way they can say the benifits bill is going down as for any given time there's someone on a sanction or on a appeal and when your on a sanction or on no money your not classed as being on benifits, seen it on a tv program. My solicitor says not to worry but not easy when your debts are piling up. If I have the energy I'll take my solicitors advice and take them to court and make sure the media know that it's possible to play at their game.
  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
    It is my contention that stopping the shift from DLA to PIP has cost the taxpayer a great deal more. Having spot assessments of illnesses not immediately visible to a nurse, ME, MS, Parkinson's, MND and many mental illnesses, is inadequate. When Penny Mordant was Secretary of State for Work and Pensions she told parliament as much in her speech. I hope her replacement in that job has been handed the same evidence.

    Suicides by train have increased, 800 up to August this year, I heard, and more than half had had that PIP from DLA refusal letter. Network Rail have raised the height of parapets on bridges over their railways to 6 ft and higher with specially designed slippery triangular toppings that only a pole vaulter could get over. When asked railwaymen tell you this is because disabled people cannot do pole vaulting. Other measures have been undertaken along all tracks and platforms to reduce the effect on travellers after such an event. 
  • bubblerbubbler Member Posts: 10 Listener
    But government denied that the suicides have been due to benifit cuts. How much is it costing the tax payer to pay for Atos to fail us then first appeal to fail us then tribunal to pass us then some idiot to try and tell the courts they ain't doing their job right? Why not assess people With a consultant or doctor trained in that field like they have in the tribunal instead? That would save millions  and more importantly not making people feel like they're lying. A friend of mine was failed despite the fact she still has cancer and now thanks to having to fight for her rights she now is too anxious to even leave her house and has stopped contact with everyone. I'm almost in her shoes right now. If everyone took them to court I'm pretty sure compensation claims would go through the roof, I know some have and won.
  • mobbbamobbba Member Posts: 34 Connected
    edited March 2018
    Hi..if anyone can help....My appeal is tomorrow .,Feeling so distressed. My advocate has emailed me.  I understand the bit where I have to answer the panels questions, but what does it mean where my case is on paper?  I am attending.  Could anyone explain for me please:

    ''You also need to understand that we can prep you before the hearing but cannot speak for you, you have to answer the questions and we are not allowed to interrupt as panel have to hear it as you see it and live it not us. We get to ask questions at the end and often a little at first however we will be presenting your case on paper mostly and really it is not essential that we are there as all arguments are on the submissions we send and discuss in advance''

  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
    They will tell you who they are and you signal to the person with you to write to it down, handing them pen and pad of paper you brought along with your file of papers and placed on the table. Then you can ask which of them is a specialist in your medical condition and look at each it turn. They will say nothing, none are, the judge will tell you what qualifications they do have and you nod and look down.
    They have your written reports and words and say if they have read them. Then they ask you quetsions. You ask them to repeat them or explain the question, what do they wnat to know, as often as you can, then answer slowly and thoughtfully. If you don't have any way of knowing the answer say so. Like, have you lost weight? If you have not been weighed recently you have no way of knowing and say so.
    Answer questions about what you can do in terms of how many days of the week, how often in a year because they have a rule of 50% of the days of the year and know they have to abide by that assess on that basis. Explain why you can't do things in terms of what happens if you try, what the risks are. You have done risk assessment, of course your disability means you do it all the time. Risk and safety.

    That goes on for around 40 minutes, you feel like you have been grilled. Then they ask if there is anything you would like to say to them.
    Even if you had something written down you won't be able to find it or speak by then but do try if you can.
    They are watching your body language, it is disconcerting but that is their job.
    Then they ask you to leave and they will call you back when they have finished their deliberations. 
    So you go back to the waiting room and try to have a slurp of water and rest. You finally get called back and there are sheets of paper on the table, that is the judgement. Ask them what it says as you peer at the papers, still tired and wobbly.
    They tell you.
    You pick up the papers and keep them safe and leave.
    Go home. Have a tot of single malt whisky, followed by a cup of tea and rest for two weeks.

    This is the only court in the world where you are not allowed to have an advocate speak for you. Do not try to speak differently than you normally do. Mine asked, can you speak up? I thought about it, no, I don't have the energy to do that.
    Do not say sorry. It is not your fault.

  • mobbbamobbba Member Posts: 34 Connected
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi mobbba

    This is fairly standard. The submission that you or your advocate sent to the tribunal sets out in detail your case and why you are challenging the decision. The panel will have read this paper submission before the hearing begins. The panel will then only need you to clarify any points that are not clear to them and the only person that can answer with any authority is you. If your advocate thinks that something has been left out or overlooked then they will be allowed to ask questions before the decision is made

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Rosie2017Rosie2017 Member Posts: 49 Courageous
    Just an update on my Esa assessment. I sent off the completed form and had my assessment on 22 January. I was allowed a taxi to take me as I had a letter from my GP recommending a taxi. Incidentally the DWP now has a contract with a taxi firm so they arrange the taxi. My appointment was for 11.30 and I got there at 11.00. Appointments were running late so by 11.50 I was getting very anxious. My friend asked how long I would have to wait and was told not long. I got called in at 12.00and was out again at 12.12!! I was asked two questions which I could have answered over the phone. They said someone would ring me in 2 weeks. It seemed all very strange to me. I received a letter 3 weeks later to say I had been transferred to the support group. Obviously I am very happy about that but they paid £40.00 for a taxi for me to be there for 12 minutes to answer 2 questions !!. I hope this means no more ESA assessments for me but only time will tell.
  • SusieDSusieD Member Posts: 15 Connected
     They need to see that you are a real person, not a fake name made up by fraudsters. And they need to see how anxious you can get. Nasty but necessary, there are probably whole organisations hell bent on defrauding the DWP.
    What does "transferred to a support group" amount to for you?
  • kami24kami24 Member Posts: 402 Pioneering
    Cant believe the Dwp puts the most vulnerable in society through all this. it's not so bad for rich individuals claiming but poor in society living alone especially who have only benefits to live on it is totally unacceptable
  • jackiedflzjackiedflz Member Posts: 5 Listener
    My son is 16 has autism and going through appeal for pip as he scored 0 points on the reconsideration the trouble is he doesnt communicate so how is he going to answer the questions at the appeal.
  • BigbobBigbob Member Posts: 1 Listener
    Sorry to revive an old post I’m going through same thing and I can’t take any more if i have to do it again I’m having to go back to my psychologist as I’m getting to stage I don’t want to live any more with all that’s going on in my life at the moment
  • Deb_AlumniDeb_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 191 Pioneering

    Hello @Bigbob

    It is nice to see you back on our community, we are sorry that you are reviving an old post as you are a member of our community and we appreciate you.

    Your most recent post is sharing your thoughts of not wanting to live any more. It is important that you discuss these feelings with someone who is qualified to help. Please call the Samaritans on 116 123 (free) or email them at [email protected]

    You might also benefit from reading MIND’s information on how you can help yourself:


    If you feel that you may be an immediate danger to yourself, please call 999 or go to your local hospital right away.



    Scope Community
    Online Community Manager
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