Real term benefits cuts?

woodbine

The media is awash today with speculation that all benefits might see real term cuts i.e not increase in line with inflation inc SRP UC and other benefits.

This would of course go some way to paying for the tax cuts for the rich.

The question is do you think this would be the right thing to do? Should the poor pay to make the rich richer?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/22952750.liz-truss-set-reduce-benefits-help-fund-tax-cuts-rich/

calcotti

Not only is it morally wrong it’s poor economic policy. People on low incomes spend all of their income whereas the wealthier are more likely to save it.

racyguy

woodbine said:

The media is awash today with speculation that all benefits might see real term cuts i.e not increase in line with inflation inc SRP UC and other benefits.

This would of course go some way to paying for the tax cuts for the rich.

The question is do you think this would be the right thing to do? Should the poor pay to make the rich richer?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/22952750.liz-truss-set-reduce-benefits-help-fund-tax-cuts-rich/

I believe what they are looking at is the level of benefits compared to low earnings. We saw what happened the last time when it was not worth working as the benefit income made it so.
I know of some pensioners that are on well over £700 a week mainly from benefits and the SRP.

calcotti

racyguy said: I believe what they are looking at is the level of benefits compared to low earnings. We saw what happened the last time when it was not worth working as the benefit income made it so.

I know of some pensioners that are on well over £700 a week mainly from benefits and the SRP.

But they have indicated that the triple lock for State Pension will be applied.

woodbine

If you at NMW and benefits NMW wins everytime.
Would be very interested to see how some pensioners income adds up to £700 a week.

calcotti

woodbine said:

Would be very interested to see how some pensioners income adds up to £700 a week.

Pensioner couple both on a disability benefit would give Pension Credit with double SDP plus double carer premium which gets you to SP/PC of £480/week plus the disability benefit itself plus HB (if applicable) and plus CTR does give a high income - but not a common situation so shouldn't generalise from it.

leeCal

They trash the economy with their O level economics then is from Sky
’Indicating a new austerity period may be around the corner, Levelling Up Secretary Simon Clarke, one of the PM's inner circle, has told The Times British people need to expect significant cuts in public spending because for too long Western people have been living in a "fool's paradise".’

They peddle lies as readily as breath, how can we ever trust these self serving ego centric bast...s again! Beneath contempt! 

And @racyguy I’m a pensioner myself I get the basic state pension because I have some savings and not a lot of those either. You stretch the truth and give people the wrong impression, you should desist! Feelings are running high at the moment and you’re not helping.

leeCal

They’ve mucked up the economy big time with their mini budget and now try to pretend that actually it’s all our fault for not being productive enough and over paying ourselves! Typical bias spin. Makes my blood boil! 

There may may be some grain of truth in this but it has been that way for many decades and the straw which broke the camels back was their ill thought out mini budget not underproduction. 

racyguy

calcotti said:

racyguy said: I believe what they are looking at is the level of benefits compared to low earnings. We saw what happened the last time when it was not worth working as the benefit income made it so.

I know of some pensioners that are on well over £700 a week mainly from benefits and the SRP.

But they have indicated that the triple lock for State Pension will be applied.

Will it?
There is nothing that is certain where the Welfare Budget is concerned. It's the easiest to cut when the government wants to save money.
Thankfully both of us have experienced abject poverty, lack of heating and food etc in the 50's and 60's. So, whatever happens we can look back and say that we managed then, we can manage again.

calcotti

racyguy said:

Will it?

Obviously we don’t know until it actually happens. Nonetheless the current position is that the current government has refused to confirm that benefits generally will increase in line with CPI but have said that triple lock will apply for State Pensions.

woodbine

I think it's morally wrong to compare today with the 1950's/60's in 70 years should we not expect things to be better? public services to be fit for purpose, benefits enough to live on, we are the 6th richest nation on earth should we not act as though we are ?

I remember waking up on winter mornings with ice INSIDE the windows, not due to poverty purely lack of central heating, doesn't mean I want my grandkids to suffer that.

And we must recall that during the 50's we were recovering from WW2 and until '54 there was still some rationing, and moving into the '60's most mums stayed at home and families lived off one wage.
I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.
Just one final thought we have a govt. that wants macro-economics who practice micro-economics, you can't have it both ways !

calcotti

woodbine said:

..we are the 6th richest nation on earth should we not act as though we are ?

I think 30th by capita per head, which is perhaps more relevant than comparison by total GDP.

racyguy

woodbine said:

I think it's morally wrong to compare today with the 1950's/60's in 70 years should we not expect things to be better? public services to be fit for purpose, benefits enough to live on, we are the 6th richest nation on earth should we not act as though we are ?

I remember waking up on winter mornings with ice INSIDE the windows, not due to poverty purely lack of central heating, doesn't mean I want my grandkids to suffer that.

And we must recall that during the 50's we were recovering from WW2 and until '54 there was still some rationing, and moving into the '60's most mums stayed at home and families lived off one wage.
I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.
Just one final thought we have a govt. that wants macro-economics who practice micro-economics, you can't have it both ways !

All I am saying is that for those that lived through that era would know what real poverty is like. Not saying that I want that to happen again, but no matter what comes our way now will not be as bad as it was back then. At least we are prepared for the worst.

leeCal

@racyguy said
All I am saying is that for those that lived through that era would know what real poverty is like. Not saying that I want that to happen again, but no matter what comes our way now will not be as bad as it was back then. At least we are prepared for the worst.

Are we really prepared for the worst? You’re talking about fifty or sixty years ago I remember those days as well and I remember I had one thing in my favour YOUTH! We no longer have that. 

A few years ago I ran out of heating oil and we had a particularly cold snap, it was minus four in my kitchen. No problem I thought, just everyone wrap up warm in the house and we’ll wait for our delivery of oil. It took ten days and I got bronchitis which the doctor said could have easily turned into pneumonia. A life threatening condition.   
Unfortunately you can’t wrap up your lungs and that’s where the danger lies especially for he elderly but not exclusively so, the very young are also susceptible to lung conditions too. 

poppy123456

racyguy said:

woodbine said:

I think it's morally wrong to compare today with the 1950's/60's in 70 years should we not expect things to be better? public services to be fit for purpose, benefits enough to live on, we are the 6th richest nation on earth should we not act as though we are ?

I remember waking up on winter mornings with ice INSIDE the windows, not due to poverty purely lack of central heating, doesn't mean I want my grandkids to suffer that.

And we must recall that during the 50's we were recovering from WW2 and until '54 there was still some rationing, and moving into the '60's most mums stayed at home and families lived off one wage.
I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.
Just one final thought we have a govt. that wants macro-economics who practice micro-economics, you can't have it both ways !

  At least we are prepared for the worst.

It's 2022 and we shouldn't have to prepare for the worst! Yes, i remember the days where we had ice on the inside of the windows and i used to have to scrape the windows every morning. We shouldn't be scared to put the heating on when we are cold. It's good to wrap up warm but it doesn't take away the feeling of having a nice warm house!

woodbine

racyguy said:

woodbine said:

I think it's morally wrong to compare today with the 1950's/60's in 70 years should we not expect things to be better? public services to be fit for purpose, benefits enough to live on, we are the 6th richest nation on earth should we not act as though we are ?

I remember waking up on winter mornings with ice INSIDE the windows, not due to poverty purely lack of central heating, doesn't mean I want my grandkids to suffer that.

And we must recall that during the 50's we were recovering from WW2 and until '54 there was still some rationing, and moving into the '60's most mums stayed at home and families lived off one wage.
I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.
Just one final thought we have a govt. that wants macro-economics who practice micro-economics, you can't have it both ways !

All I am saying is that for those that lived through that era would know what real poverty is like. Not saying that I want that to happen again, but no matter what comes our way now will not be as bad as it was back then. At least we are prepared for the worst.

If I'm honest I would have to say we are not ready for the worst, we have a whole generation who have never lived through higher inflation, who have never had to give a second thought to putting the heating on, who have never had to make a choice between eating and heating.

Inflation is at a 40 year high, energy cost are beyond a joke and we are on the cusp of a recession, and yet we have a government who have given priority to tax cuts for the rich and will now expect spending cuts in the NHS/defence/education/social care and everything else that you can think of. 

I do take issue when you say that people lived through "real" poverty in the 50's and 60's that simply isn't true, you would have to go back before the war for that.

racyguy

woodbine said:

If I'm honest I would have to say we are not ready for the worst, we have a whole generation who have never lived through higher inflation, who have never had to give a second thought to putting the heating on, who have never had to make a choice between eating and heating.

Inflation is at a 40 year high, energy cost are beyond a joke and we are on the cusp of a recession, and yet we have a government who have given priority to tax cuts for the rich and will now expect spending cuts in the NHS/defence/education/social care and everything else that you can think of. 

I do take issue when you say that people lived through "real" poverty in the 50's and 60's that simply isn't true, you would have to go back before the war for that.

A few facts then:
Inflation in 1973 was running at 9%, 1974 - 16% rising in 1974 to 24%.
For the following 6 years it started to reduce and by 1980 to 18%

Bank Rates in the late 70's through to the early 80's were 17% dropping down gradually to the early 90's to 12%.

Those are of recent date. I would also mention that throughout that period of high inflation and bank rates no one not even the DWP/DHSS made any contribution to the public - it was sink or swim! We all coped one way or another. I took out a £100,000 mortgage in 1989 with monthly repayments of £1,000 a month.

As I have said we have lived through worse so should be prepared well for what is happening now.

poppy123456

racyguy said:

woodbine said:

If I'm honest I would have to say we are not ready for the worst, we have a whole generation who have never lived through higher inflation, who have never had to give a second thought to putting the heating on, who have never had to make a choice between eating and heating.

Inflation is at a 40 year high, energy cost are beyond a joke and we are on the cusp of a recession, and yet we have a government who have given priority to tax cuts for the rich and will now expect spending cuts in the NHS/defence/education/social care and everything else that you can think of. 

I do take issue when you say that people lived through "real" poverty in the 50's and 60's that simply isn't true, you would have to go back before the war for that.

As I have said we have lived through worse so should be prepared well for what is happening now.

That's absolute nonsense! You keep saying the same thing across multiple threads. We shouldn't have to be prepared for these sort things. We are not living in the 60's, 70's or 80's!

leeCal

@poppy123456 said
We are not living in the 60's, 70's or 80's!

Totally agree but unfortunately it seems the conservatives want to drag us back to those times! 

Girl_No1

racyguy said:

calcotti said:

racyguy said: I believe what they are looking at is the level of benefits compared to low earnings. We saw what happened the last time when it was not worth working as the benefit income made it so.

I know of some pensioners that are on well over £700 a week mainly from benefits and the SRP.

But they have indicated that the triple lock for State Pension will be applied.

Will it?
There is nothing that is certain where the Welfare Budget is concerned. It's the easiest to cut when the government wants to save money.
Thankfully both of us have experienced abject poverty, lack of heating and food etc in the 50's and 60's. So, whatever happens we can look back and say that we managed then, we can manage again.

A major factor in our ability to manage in the 50s and 60s is we were children, therefore did not have the responsibility to ensure that we 'managed'. 

It was our parents/grandparents who did the managing often to their own detriment to ensure we were looked after in the best way they could. 

For example, I have absolutely no idea how to darn a sock, or turn a collar - my grannies did, but my mother never had to so I was not taught.  Nor have I inkling how to make a chicken serve 8 people who subsequently feel as though they've been properly fed - my grannies did, same as the darning etc. I was never taught.

So, on balance, I'd say 'we' didn't manage - our parents/grandparents did.

Cartini

I`ve been following this thread with interest. My earliest recollection is watching the funeral of Churchill on our little black & white telly; I was 4 then.  From later conversations with my mother, we were struggling, but as a child in 65 I wasn`t aware of it.

What I don`t understand is why people are bickering about "how it used to be" compared to "how it could be".  Tough times are / could be ahead (I say are or could be because I would imagine some people won`t feel it as bad as other people).

For me, this is an interesting thread because I don`t follow politics to the n`th degree, so I like to read what other people believe or think.

Personally, I have no allegiance to any political party; they are all as bad as each other. I do, however, vote blue to keep red out (must be a Manchester thing ).  Having said that, the next GE will see me voting for the Monster Raving Loony Party; and the only reason I will be doing that is to stop the people wagging their finger and saying "no vote, no complaint".

Andy