Do DMs have to take ESA report into account? Can I use a 4 year old letter from my psychiatrist?

anubis68 · January 24

i called pip and asked to talk to a decision-maker and was aked why i said of points there wrong in the report and things were put in i was never asked and she treated like a child in the way she kept saying "aw bless and sorry that must be hard for you" which had resulted in 0 points on every account.

"ESA doctor put Getting About- 6 points

Is unable to get to a specified place with which the claimant is unfamiliar without

being accompanied by another person"

2Personal Action - 6 points

Frequently cannot, due to impaired mental function, reliably initiate or complete at least 2 personal actions

Coping Socially - - 9 points
Engagement in social contact with someone unfamiliar to the claimant is always precluded
due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual
Mr ******** states he will only go to shops/chemist with a friend as he is anxious
round people.
Appropriateness of Behaviour - 15 points
Frequently has uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behavior when out and about in public

Mr ********** states he needs prompting to get up and dressed and showered as

well as his friend needing to remind him to take medication and eat properly"

scored 42 points on esa in total and put in a support group

she said sorry we don't take that as evidence and complain to assessors not them also letter is to out of date to use as evidence from physiatrist i called my physiatrist and she said a diagnosis is just that a diagnosis and it isn't going to change because a letter is out of date also autism is non-curable and because of my age things are not going to get better she just didn't want to know

Can anyone tell me if they have to take their own doctors' ESA report into account and will it go against me the letters being 4 yrs old?

janer1967 · January 24

Hi and welcome

They do not take esa assessment reports into account as PIP is a completely different benefits with different criteria

Some people do however send it as evidence

As for diagnosis letter again all ot does I'd confirm your condition but PIP isnt about the diagnosis it's about how your condition affects your daily living against the descriptors

The best evidence to send is your own account of real examples of what happens when you try and do the task
Along with any support letters on how you manage your daily life

You can submit a MR to appeal detailing which descriptors you think you should have scored points and why

Good luck any further questions just ask

anubis68 · January 24

HI Thanks for the reply these are copy of my mental team that diagnosed me and they said they are outdated to use as evidence sorry if its a bit much to read

you do have an Autism Spectrum Disorder and meet the criteria of the
DSM-5 and ICD-10 due to:
A. Persistent difficulties in social communication and social interaction across
contexts, not accounted for by general developmental delays, and manifest by all
three of the following:- ·------ -----.. _
1. Difficulties in social-emotional reciprocity
2. Difficulties in nonverbal communicative behaviours used for social interaction
3. Difficulties in developing and maintaining relationships
B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behaviour, interests, or activities as manifested by
the following:-
1. Stereotyped or repetitive speech, motor movements, or use of objects
2. Excessive adherence to routines, ritualised patterns of verbal or nonverbal behaviour, or
excessive resistance to change
3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are atypical in intensity or focus
4. Hyper- or hypo- reactivity to sensory input or unusual interest in sensory

I confirm that <moderator removed name> has a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Condition, a diagnosis
made early in 2016. Despite this diagnosis being made late in his life, we are
confident that it helps to explain many of the difficulties<moderator removed name> has experienced
throughout his life. Autism is a lifelong developmental condition which presents with
significant social and emotional challenges which impact on <moderator removed name>s wellbeing and
for which he needs support. This support is provided, in the main, by <moderator removed name>. In
addition, <moderator removed name> experiences high levels of anxiety which are more prominent at
times of uncertainty, change and unpredictability and arise out of his autism.
Sensory issues are also associated with autism and <moderator removed name> is particularly
hypersensitive to noise which also increases his anxiety
In addition, <moderator removed name> has a diagnosis of depression and anxiety with some OCD
symptoms. He has experienced head injuries in the past and reports memory
difficulties which impact on his daily functioning. The social and communication
difficulties associated with a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder mean that the
effort needed to communicate with others and this adds to his experience of fatigue.
During our time working with <moderator removed name>we always found him to be cooperative,
however, we needed to make adjustments in order to complete our assessment. He
was always supported to attend appointments by <moderator removed name> otherwise he would not have
been able to attend appointments away from home. On one occasion he met with us
in <moderator removed place>, but the stress of using public transport and the worry he experienced
about the return journey were clearly evident and he was not able to engage with the
process. Any future appointments were in <moderator removed place>, in a familiar place and kept
short.

also with the esa doctor say ESA doctor put Getting About- 6 points

Is unable to get to a specified place with which the claimant is unfamiliar without

being accompanied by another person" am i wrong in thinking its the same for esa as it is for pip as i dont see any difference in it ?

janer1967 · January 24

That evidence looks good to me but they do state should be within last 2 years

But I understand with the content it should still be relevant but I'm not a DWP employee and sometimes they just go by the book with what they can and cant accept as evidence

All you can do now is submit the MR

wilko · January 24

@anubis68, PIP is as you well know is a benefit to help you, me and others with daily living and mobility activities. PIP is not awarded on a disability, diagnosis or the amount of prescribed medications we, you or I are taking. PIP is solely award on your, mine and the claimants abilities to preform the PIP descriptors in a safe, repeatable and timely manner for at least 50% of their daily lives. Nothing more nothing less. That’s why when you apply for PIP we all fill in the booklet giving reasons, evidence to support each , question and descriptor we are writing about giving examples of why we are unable to preform the relevant descriptor. At our phone or face to face assessment the assessor will question us reference to our application form and ask us questions to justify our written answers so as to recommend the correct points per each descriptor. ESA are two different benefits and claiming criteria.

anubis68 · January 24

thanks for the replys its all confusing when 2 people ask the same thing to the same question and get the same answer but only one is right and the other says it dont count

Cher_Scope · January 24

Hi @anubis68

Just to inform you - I've removed names and places from your post above to protect your identity. Good luck with the MR and please be sure to ask any other questions along the way.

mikehughescq · January 24

There is no rule on what evidence you can or cannot send in. If you send in ESA evidence for PIP they have no choice but to take it into account. However, the fact an ESA report addresses slightly different questions will impact the weight given to it as evidence.

Similarly the DWP assertion that evidence ought not to be more than 2 years old is utter nonsense. It has no standing in law at all. However, again, the weight given really depends on the nature of the evidence. A 4 year old report is unlikely to be given much weight. On the other hand a 10 year old CVI and SSI registration would be equally valid now as 10 years ago subject to other indicators.

anubis68 · January 25

Thanks for the info. I called my autism team this morning for an up to date report but the person I dealt with has retired. I was told that they would look into it but because of the covid and they running on a low staff it might not be for a while.

lisathomas50 · January 25

@anurag10 I think covid 19 is affecting alot of things

anubis68 · January 25

they ask for recent information and they know that covid is making it very hard to get the info its as if they are saying get the info if not then tough

OverlyAnxious · January 25

anubis68 said:

they ask for recent information and they know that covid is making it very hard to get the info its as if they are saying get the info if not then tough

I note your ASD letter says about a friend going with you to shops etc. Would this friend be able to write a statement about how you're affected? Something like that also counts as evidence as long as it focuses on the PIP descriptors.

anubis68 · January 28

filling out my MR and would it be ok to put a copy of self-test pip results in with it or would they think im being silly?

chiarieds · January 28

i would suggest not, as it's easy to over or under mark yourself. What you should concentrate on is where you should have got points & why, some of which has been mentioned above. Try & give a couple of detailed explanations of the difficulty you face for each activity/descriptor that applies, for example, what exactly happened & when, who witnessed it, why was it difficult when you attempted or completed the activity, & if relevant, how did it leave you feeling afterwards. Do you need support or prompting, etc. Please have a look at the following link, which indicates some of the problems you might encounter: https://www.mentalhealthandmoneyadvice.org/en/welfare-benefits/pip-mental-health-guide/help-with-your-pip-claim/how-to-fill-in-the-pip-form/

Altho it's about how to fill in a PIP form, it's still relevant, as it goes through the different activities that will be looked at again with your MR.

calcotti · January 28

Rather than self score use the scoring descriptions to help guide you in what you say. So for example you might say "I struggle to do xxx. Recently yy happened. My partner has to help me to do zzz. Without the help he gives me I would not be able to complete this activity."

anubis68 · January 28

thanks for the reply is this the address to send free post does anyone know or do i still have to pay postaghe?
FREEPOST DWP PIP 1
PERSONAL INDEPENDENCE
PAYMENT 1
WOLVERHAMPTON
WV98 1AA

calcotti · January 28

I believe all you need is FREEPOST DWP PIP X where X is a number that depends on where you live.

anubis68 · January 28

many thanks

calcotti · January 28

There's a list of FREEPOST addresses attached to this FOI reply Reply Letter 4333.pdf (whatdotheyknow.com)
Although the reply is a few years old I believe the addresses remain correct.

anubis68 · January 28

Thanks the the report has now been sent. just the waiting game now

anubis68 · January 29

mikehughescq said:

There is no rule on what evidence you can or cannot send in. If you send in ESA evidence for PIP they have no choice but to take it into account. However, the fact an ESA report addresses slightly different questions will impact the weight given to it as evidence.

Similarly the DWP assertion that evidence ought not to be more than 2 years old is utter nonsense. It has no standing in law at all. However, again, the weight given really depends on the nature of the evidence. A 4 year old report is unlikely to be given much weight. On the other hand a 10 year old CVI and SSI registration would be equally valid now as 10 years ago subject to other indicators.

This is part of the evidence eas doctor said in his report seems the same to me as the pip descipter
Adapting to Change - Activity Outcomes
Coping with change
CCc Cannot cope with minor unplanned change (such as the timing of an appointment
on the day it is due to occur), to the extent that overall, day to day life is made
significantly more difficult
Activity 14
Getting about Activity 15
GAc Is unable to get to a specified place with which the claimant is unfamiliar without
being accompanied by another person
Adapting to Change - Supporting Medical Evidence
The evidence does suggest some functional disability.

mikehughescq · January 29

I’m not sure what you’re looking for. They are essentially the same but that misses the point. It doesn’t give any actual examples of occasions when you struggled with these activities and you wouldn’t expect it to as it’s a report based on their opinion of you. It’s very easy for DWP or a tribunal to refute it as evidence because in the absence of examples it’s just an assertion. It might be an assertion by a medical professional but it’s still just an assertion. You need to provide detailed real world examples to strengthen your case.

Do DMs have to take ESA report into account? Can I use a 4 year old letter from my psychiatrist?

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