PIP Tribunal Advice / Is the DWP Moving the goalposts?

IAmNotANumber

Hi Everyone,

For fourteen months, I received quite intimidating letters and texts telling me my hard-fought-for PIP benefit was under review.  Eventually, I had an assessment.

A week beforehand, I asked if I could have the review assessment recorded.  I did not trust them after last time.  20 minutes before the assessment, they decided to call me and change to a phone interview.  Is this common?  I was not able to record the assessment, due to the last moment change.  I am Autistic and this completely threw me, putting me on the back-foot.  The last minute change made me extremely anxious and I struggled answering the questions.  Conveniently, there was no mention of me struggling in the PIP decision letter.

Originally, the PIP review letters said I only had to tell them about things that had changed.  Considering things had only become worse, I described how things had become worse.  I sent my new Autism diagnosis as evidence.  The review decision was zero points (how surprising).  This was due to "no evidence of input" into my conditions.  They had only said to provide proof of what had changed - not letters about the support I was receiving.

After this, I received help from two different charity groups.  I had supporting letters, medical evidence, statements from a counsellor and from my family.  It detailed all the ways in which the family and others support me.  It explained in their words how I am an unable to things and that they do them for me.  This evidenced why I was not able to do the tasks on my own and relied on my family for help.

The DWP gave me four points through Mandatory Reconsideration.  This is not enough to gain any help.  The patronising copy-and-paste letter explained what they were looking for.  It said proof of multiple Autism Spectrum Disorders and proof of mental health difficulties were not, by themselves, enough to award me PIP.  It said I needed proof of specific help I was receiving.

I am now baffled, as the letters I sent spelt out clearly how people were supporting me.  Has this happened to anyone else?  Have they moved the goalposts on me again?  The people who helped me put the case together are "baffled" and "flabbergasted".  One said they couldn't believe how they could still say "no".  Has anyone else experienced this?

I am now being represented by a group, who will fight my case for me.  There is a fee for this, which comes from any back-pay I may receive.  I am awaiting the 'bundle' from the DWP.  

I should mention too that the Mandatory Reconsideration letter arrived nearly two weeks after the date on it.  This only gave me two and a half weeks to lodge my tribunal appeal, rather a month (apparently, this is common, too)?  

I am finding it very difficult to leave the house or enjoy anything at all, without feeling awful guilt.  I am not sleeping well.  I constantly feel stressed, guilty and like a terrible human being.  I spoke to my counsellor today.  They told me I am entitled to leave the house - that I am not a prisoner.  They said I should not feel guilty about trying to live my life.  My doctor also told me that I need to get out and try to communicate with people.  Does anyone have any advice on feeling less guilty or paranoid about going out the house?  

Finally, I am very stressed about how to approach the PIP tribunal.  I feel like if I am too nervous to talk - and I probably will be - they might say I did not provide enough evidence.  I am also scared that I if I do make an argument, they might just say I can communicate and score me zero for everything.  Should I answer their questions best I can, or just not say anything and hope they see how much I need their help?

Thank you for your time.  I apologise for being so nervous.  The whole process is taking a toll on my health and has been since the letters started a year and a half ago.

IAmNotANumber

Wishing everyone else good luck with their cases too.

poppy123456

There's been no changes to the descriptors for quite some time. When filling out the forms you should always treat it as a new claim and tell them everything about your conditions and how they affect you. Not just any changes or to even put "no change" and nothing else.

The success rate of any MR decision is always quite low and only about 23% of decisions change at this stage in the claimants favours, so it's not surprising that your decision didn't change.

As for paying someone to help you with the Tribunal stage, i don't agree with the fact that some companies charge. There are advice agencies that help you for free.

When requesting the Tribunal, though they tell you within 1 month, you actually have 13 months to request it. If outside of the 1 month timescale you need to give a reason why you didn't request it within the 1 month. It's very unlikely that HMCTS would refuse an appeal for a late request. It's not unusual for letters from DWP to take a couple of weeks to arrive.

IAmNotANumber

poppy123456 said:

There's been no changes to the descriptors for quite some time. When filling out the forms you should always treat it as a new claim and tell them everything about your conditions and how they affect you. Not just any changes or to even put "no change" and nothing else.

The success rate of any MR decision is always quite low and only about 23% of decisions change at this stage in the claimants favours, so it's not surprising that your decision didn't change.

As for paying someone to help you with the Tribunal stage, i don't agree with the fact that some companies charge. There are advice agencies that help you for free.

When requesting the Tribunal, though they tell you within 1 month, you actually have 13 months to request it. If outside of the 1 month timescale you need to give a reason why you didn't request it within the 1 month. It's very unlikely that HMCTS would refuse an appeal for a late request. It's not unusual for letters from DWP to take a couple of weeks to arrive.

Thank you.  I feel a little better after reading your response.  If possible, please could you clarify something for me?  I'm reliably told that 69% of PIP tribunals end in favour of the applicant.  The government website says this, though:

"For initial decisions following a PIP assessment during April 2013 to December 2022:

• 37% of completed MRs against initial decisions following a PIP assessment went on to lodge an appeal
• 16% of appeals lodged saw DWP change the decision in the customer’s favour before the appeal was heard at tribunal (known as “lapsed” appeals)
• 4% of initial decisions were overturned (revised in favour of the customer) at a tribunal hearing"

Maybe the government is using statistics for the whole time, and only recently have tribunal outcomes improved.  Or is something else going on here?

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-april-2023/personal-independence-payment-statistics-april-2013-to-april-2023

poppy123456

You missed a part out where it says..

68% of the DWP decisions cleared at a tribunal hearing were “overturned” (which is where the decision is revised in favour of the customer)

Then also...

16% of appeals lodged were “lapsed” (which is where DWP changed the decision in the customer’s favour after an appeal was lodged but before it was heard at tribunal)

This is up until Dec 2022. The appeal stats are if you either appear in person or have a telephone/video hearing. Paper based hearings have a considerably less success rate of between 5-8%.

nasturtium

Hello IAmNotANumber

There is nothing going on.

Those stats are basically saying that 37% of claimants who put in a Mandatory Reconsideration request and were turned down at the MR stage went on to appeal at tribunal. 63% of claimants did not appeal because they wither had an award in there favour or they just gave up.

16% of the 37% who lodge an appeal for Tribunal after there MR request was turned down had enough detailed verbal written evidence either from there Mandatory Reconsideration letter or a combination of there Mr Letter and the info on there PIP2 Questionnaire form to allow the DWP to give the claimant an "offer" of an award and if they accept that "offer" ther tribunal lapses and does not happen.

This link might explain better the Tribunal Stats https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-07-21/42121

Hope that helps

Nasturtium

Edit: I am very suprised only 37% of Claimants lodge an appeal after being turned down at MR stage.

Edit of the Edit: Poppy posted before I submitted and did not see poppys post.

Hannah_Alumni

Hello @IAmNotANumber

I wanted to reach out as I can see you have been through so much and still have tribunal to get through. Just so you know, there are organisations like Citizen's Advice that can help for free if you need any more support. 

I hope the community can be a place of support for you. Please don't hesitate to reach out if we can help in anyway and please, keep us updated  

IAmNotANumber

Thank you, everyone. Please could someone delete my original question?  I'm a bit worried about the DWP using it against me, somehow.  Thank you and God bless.

bg844

IAmNotANumber said:

Thank you, everyone. Please could someone delete my original question?  I'm a bit worried about the DWP using it against me, somehow.  Thank you and God bless.

DWP will not use it against you, posting on a forum such as Scope means you are basically anonymous. After reading your opening post, there’s nothing I can gather personally about you.

To delete your opening post email: community@scope.org.uk
And a moderator will action this for you.

IAmNotANumber

Thank you.  ❤️