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Who are we and why are we here ?

CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
edited December 2017 in Coffee lounge
Linking ( hopefully ) to another thread

Please respect other people points of view, this is a wide and varied subject.
This is no place for confrontation but sharing experiance and knowledge even if at odds with your own. Only by sharing can we learn and understand a little more

Thanks

CR
Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste

Replies

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2017
    @B1nkyb00 I can answer that but before I do let me assure everyone this is only my belief albeit born of many years experience and no way would I try and impose this on anyone. I am a Spiritualist and fully believe we all have 2 bodies, our earthly physical one that gets sick or becomes disabled and eventually "dies" and our ethereal body which leaves our physical body at the time of death. However it can also do this at night. (Astral travelling). Science is on the verge of discovering that our consciousness does not originate in the brain but that the brain processes the awareness like a television or phone signal. Therefore you can be consciously aware when outside your body which is how you remember your dreams. Let me ask you if you are actually aware you have a body in these dreams? I have dreamt that I can fly, or that I've fallen off a cliff or sinking into deep water yet am never harmed in any way. There is a difference between these dreams and normal ones when you are usually outside a situation looking at a film like senario. Lucid dreams are far more real, in colour and your mental clarity is so clear that you can think and make decisions and have conversations with people and decide when to return. I won't continue but well, you did ask, and as I say this is only my belief. Just to add, however, that there is a huge amount of evidence for this.   

    Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/38712/why-dont-we-dream-we-are-disabled#qeH3PB1KFPsfAA9T.99

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2017
    Post by wildlife
    Basically when history is studied this is only a return to what humans believed in in the past but when Christianity came along it was suppressed by Religious leaders who indoctrinated the masses to believe in Jesus Christ as our Saviour. So are we born sinners? I don't think so. What sin has a new born baby committed? Although Spiritualism is now a recognized religion there is no indoctrination. No-one tells you what to believe. We do have 7 principles to live by, 1 of which is Personal Responsibility. We don't believe God or whatever you want to call him/her punishes us but that we review our own lives in Spirit. In many NDE's this is experienced before the person is sent back. This happens now because of modern medicine that can bring a person who is technically "dead" back to life. So we've had the witches who were actually Mediums (we all know what happened to them) and come full circle but with modern technology more experiments can now be done to prove that consciousness exists outside the body and therefore can continue on after death. For us who are suffering so much in this life as our physical bodies begin to deteriorate I find this so comforting to think that one day I will be free of this but still able to think and continue to exist. I have had many experiences in my life mostly in dream state but do not claim to be a Medium. These have occurred at times of extreme stress as a sort of release from the suffering which at times became unbearable. (I've been diagnosed with Complex PTSD so far off the scale there is no funding for treatment). One night years ago after a terrible day when we'd had the police out to one of our adopted sons both of whom became violent in their teens, I fell asleep exhausted and was met by a group of young people 12/13 of them, dressed in white robes with a yellow glow around them. They were giving out love that I could feel and they took me to a room with a bed in it and told me to rest and that they would return later. This they did and they then took me to a room with a table laden with food. We sat around and ate and talked but what I remember was an incredible atmosphere. I woke feeling so calm and totally at peace, so different to how I should have felt and I knew I'd been given a break that I desperately needed at that time. That and many other dreams that were not your ordinary confused scenarios have brought me to where I am today: a 67 year old lady riddled with pain and discomfort after 9 tummy operations, damage from keyhole surgery, 5 road accidents and 40 odd years of acute stress this, like you say, is a form of release. 
    Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/38712/why-dont-we-dream-we-are-disabled#w36SJA6l9sV5AtJz.99

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2017
    Post by Topkitten
    I have only recently begun to discover the energy that spiritualists believe in but, in most people, it is simply an internal untapped energy that can assist the body in a number of ways. It does though allow connections to be made to other people over distance. I think that one day scientists will come to prove that this is the basis for the science fiction principle of telepathy. However, we make unseen connections to people ALL the time and I have a scientific theory I may share someday regarding how it creates & breaks friendships and how it explains love and all the other unscientific twaddle that most people believe in. Still.... this is all off the point, so sorry about that.

    Dreams and nightmares are presumed to be the brains way of coping with situations in real life at a subconscious level. Personally I have extensive experience of both but mostly nightmares as I have been suffering one or other every night for more than a decade and a half and sometimes more than 1 per day. Doctors are too ready to blame them on strong medication but I have had to put up with them for longer than any regular medication strong or not. I do however know for a fact that the strong medication has 2 effects on them. One is to make them last longer both physically and subjectively. The second is that once the medication rose above a certain strength it suppressed a lot of my memories of them, I only knew I had had them due to the state I was in on awakening. I do remember some though.

    In 2016 I went into a coma after becoming unconscious for some hours. Initially in the coma I could not breath unaided so, for a short period, I died. There was no out of body experience or any other sort of experience. Everything just went black. Nor, when in a coma, is there a continuing dream throughout. That is just a program producers inspiration to make a good story for TV or for book writers to do the same in print. I know this because firstly I am used to them being extremely long in subjective terms. Most people have very short dreams or nightmares lasting subjective minutes or occasionally hours. Mine last subjective days or, very infrequently, weeks of subjective time. When I was brought out of the coma it took 3 attempts and each time I had a memorable dream. When they explained what happened and how I reacted during each attempt all of the 3 related to the 3 attempts. None were in any way religious but then I am not a religious person so wouldn't expect them to be. I do distinctly remember long periods of darkness so dark I couldn't see. Nor could I feel or sense anything.

    Like you @B1nkyb00 I was not disabled in any of these or any other dream I can remember but then the people in them and at the ages I dreamed them to be I would have been healthy at that point in my history. Ofc this would not explain your situation but then it is my belief that we would not, except perhaps very occasionally, dream of ourselves as disabled but would incorporate the projected healthy viewpoint constantly shown us as how we are supposed to be.

    It is true that we don't always dream we are a complete person and hence the flying or falling or being unable to run away scenarios. We do dream in both B&W and also in colour. Personally I find the colour ones to be both longer and more frightening.  I am sure some will disagree with me, some always do, lol! I must admit though that I suspect the brain always tries to put a nice twist into dreams to make them pleasurable and hides things that would make nightmares even more scary than they are. After all, if it is a purposeful process there is little point the brain conjuring up a situation that you would want to forget.

    Unfortunately dreaming is a subjective experience and is most likely related to our belief systems. Consequently everyone has a different perspective and content, making it difficult to cross-reference with others accurately.

    Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/38712/why-dont-we-dream-we-are-disabled#JrGpv8JlCV64CdCP.99

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    edited February 2018
    Thank you for sharing, I understand and hope we can continue to share, I know you will understand much that others dismiss as fantasy. I may at somestage be able to share my journey so far.

    @Topkitten Thank you for sharing. There is much in your post and I would like to hear your scientific theory when you are ready. We are all on a journey for want of a better way to express it, some people are further along than others. Some people haven't started yet and don't know that they are going on one.

    One of the limitations is trying to express and explain in words, things that are only understood outside the common use of language. For a long time only what could be seen and touched was belived. Historically many people have tried to take on the task of starting the journey for others, only to be ridiuculed and their efforts  subverted by "science " and greed or turned into a  "belief system".

    @b1nkyb00 sorry for disrupting your thread.

    If any one want to carry on this discussion maybe we ought to take it to its own thread

    CR
    Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/38712/why-dont-we-dream-we-are-disabled#Rsqs8DOWclc4UlLd.99

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @CockneyRebel Thank-you for starting this thread. Just to say that my first post on here is my own belief in answer to @B1nkyb00's question of why we are not usually disabled in our dreams. "Who are we and why are we here?" may not have been thought about by most people and is something that can only be answered if and when we pass on. Unless you prefer to think we are only physical beings and once we die we cease to exist, that's fine, but I find it too horrible to even contemplate. It does not explain all the collated accounts of Near Death Experiences how someone in extreme circumstances can suddenly find themselves outside their body watching the scene from a different perspective and being able to relate facts about what was happening while they were clinically "Dead". They had no brain activity so how can they see and hear what is going on? Whether or not this is true the statistics of how many people this has happened to cannot be explained any other way than to be open minded until such time as science catches up with our many excellent mediums and announces that it has been proven beyond doubt that consciousness does not originate in the brain. @Topkitten I, like you, cannot fully believe in something unless I've experienced it for myself and there are many things I find too far fetched about life in Spirit. But life would be very dull if we all did this about everything and didn't accept findings from those cleverer than us who have spent much of their lives, for example developing new treatments by scientifically experimenting and proving that they work. We believe this so the same must apply to Spiritual matters. If experiments prove there is something more to us than purely the physical and believing this for yourself creates a feeling of comfort and peace and something to focus on that helps the daily suffering than that is why I chose to believe in another life beyond this.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    @wildlife

    i will try to relate my story soon but it is long. :)

    If I may ask, when did you first find this path ?
    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @CockneyRebel I would love to hear your story. Yes of course you may ask. It started in my teens messing around with a homemade Ouija board. I wouldn't recommend anyone do this unless they know what they are doing. It was just letters and numbers written on scraps of paper and an upturned glass which we put our little fingers on. It started as a lark but as the glass began to whiz across the table not being pushed by any of us I realized it was a serious matter. I even remember the message which convinced me there was something happening. My Mother had recently taken our cat to be put to sleep and the message came through "U4Y VET". There were 4 of us in our family. Scared the daylights out of me. Then I started going to Spiritualist Churches in my 40's when we lived in a house where there was a dreadful atmosphere. We found out the last occupant had committed suicide. This may surprise some of you but I went to speak to the local vicar and he came up to the house with a Bible and spoke to the guy by name as he'd known him. He told him he could now move on and things improved for a while. However our 2 sons were teenagers and one of them now claims to have been influenced by whatever was in the house. That's where I had the dream previously described. I had breaks over the years from being actively involved but always was drawn back to it out of interest more than anything. OK so back to the present. Scientists are currently working with Mediums at The University of Arizona to produce a Soul Phone. It has progressed to them announcing that success so far makes this achievable in around 2 years from now. One Medium I know laughs and says he doesn't need one. Talking of whom he is also presently being tested by having his brain activity monitored whilst channeling. It has so far been shown that the information is coming from an outside source but it cannot be established where it is actually coming from. We shall have to wait and see but I think it's only a matter of time before these things will be accepted as true facts. I just wish I could be like some of the Mediums who visit our Church who are not afraid of dying and are actually looking forward to it. It's only when that point is reached that you can really start to live. 
  • DasiydoDasiydo Member Posts: 94 Courageous
    I haven't find my path but do believe in God but also believe in witches and fairies and writing joint witches and fairies all school but was told withdraw the God and girl guides from story. I also God mother in RC but do believe there something out there my writing stories on watpad called Redart school. I would like learn write a book which no writing one about belief but at all I saying
    V.shaw
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    My journey started out with needing proof. Like many I was force to study R.E. at school, the bible stories are very nice but did not provide any concrete proof.
    I became aware that other religions also exsisted, so who was right ? Then science came into my schooling and physics told me that energy cannot be destroyed but it can be transformed. This posed the question, if we are alive then we must be some form of energy which cannot be destroyed so what does our living energy transform into ?
    I looked into many alternative sources of information and belife, most of the major religions ( none of which am I disputing or denying ), I looked at wiccan, I looked many forms of alternative medicine and even psychology. I became fasinated by the sixth sense and all that goes with it. Telekinisis, telepathy etc. yet still no proof. I studied dreams and sleep patterns. I discovered REM sleep and its importance to healthy sleep. I read about a way to enter REM sleep quickly and how you only need about 5 mins per day to fully rest and remain healthy. This sounded very strange to a young man who liked his bed, but here was a method I could try and prove to myself, without to much effort. For the next three years, having learnt how, I managed to work day and night shifts with only 10 minutes sleep a day.
    Here was something out of the "ordinary" that I now had proof was real, and this renewed my search into other areas.
    The next big breakthrough for me was discovering hypnosis. The only place I could find that offered "legitimate" training at the time was the I.P&P now sadly no longer in existence. I trained with them and "qualified" as a hypnotist, councillor and most interestingly a parapsychoogist.

    Sorry for the long post but this was the start of my journey most of which provided me with proof of many things but also not a definate way to prove  to anyone else. Language and words cannot convey adequately the knowing that exists inside yourself. Looking back at my studies into religion, I belive that most started with an attempt to convey understanding without the words to do so . I don't like to use the term enlightenment,  but a realisation of things outside of our normal,  physical daily lives.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Neil2017Neil2017 Member Posts: 157 Courageous
    Hi @CockneyRebel and @wildlife and @daisydoo

    A fascinating thread and also nteresting comments. For me although I see the positive side of religion is to get communities together in worship, the doctrines behind it particularly Christianity do not add up when presented with scientific evidence and theories like those related to Charles Darwin. Each to their own in what they believe and practice.

    I would like to believe more in the spirit and it being an energy but would have to read more. For example I do not understand if the population of Earth has risen dramatically in the last 100 years or so where has all that spiritual energy come from? Or has it indeed come from plants, animals and insects that are no more.

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    Gosh CR you no doubt know a lot more about this subject than I do. My knowledge is from personal experience, reading and the people I know who not only believe as I do but are able to demonstrate week after week in our Sunday service that they are communicating with those who have passed over. The evidence is overwhelming when you are as involved as I am. I'm reading about children who talk about their previous lives. Again this appears to be evidence which cannot be explained any other way than to believe they've lived before. Have you any experience of past life regression as a Hypnotherapist?
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Neil2017

    You raise an interesting point about the rise in population. It would be very interesting also to find out where the matter to produce the increase has come from. For example, does our planet weigh more now than it did millions of years ago ?
    As to the question of spiritual energy, if you accept that life is energy, and that energy cannot be destroyed, all living things only exist because of the living energy. Then when life ceases in that being, whether bird, bee or plant, the energy has to go somewhere

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello Everybody.  I have seen this and am I right in saying.  Every one has a different perspective on life.  What is the truth?  Why are here and who are we?  I know I have always a open mind.  I sat and pondered reading what everyone wrote.  My experiences and my impressions of that question are quite interesting and stimulating.  I was an non believer I lived in a house well I said this before my childhood was not only traumatic but as I said before sorry.  Vey much troubled and never allowed to explore the avenues of life.  I have met many wonderful people of all faiths, creeds, back grounds.  Much to the chagrin of my mother and family  This was my love of collecting antiques and collectables.  I got interested in peoples lives and especially their faiths.  As you do with friends. I got involved with deceased estates.  I had encounters with a persons spirit and energy in the property they had lived in.  I am a believer that when a person dies the energy and the spirit of that person does remain.  I am also started looking at various faiths and religions.  I had a good friend who was part of the Mormon faith.  Got interested in that for a while.  I was going through my addiction phase and living really badly.  Soul searching.  Nearly joined Mormon because they had programme in the States.  Both parents of my friend reached out for me to help.  Unfortunately I found myself at the mercy of a family who would not let go and not ever understand me.  By this time hiding bible at home, going to churches in private.  Found bible friend had given me to the skip.  Never forget that.  Now where to go left various churches and places because people were interfering and telling them.  In the end got an opportunity to go to College enrolled and the rest is history.  One day in a place I had moved to neighbours found out my addiction.  Kept it quiet all the time.  Ashamed went back to my house got fully drunk fell on to a coffee table.  Into a stupor on the floor all I could feel not cold, heating not working at time.  Just warmth and heat.  So comfortable and just lay there.  All I remember having the courage to ring for help and then I was in ER.  In the end saw the light and have changed.  Been clean for ten years.  In my dark days coming off.  Some thing started in my head and my mind to decide to get help.  I have discussed this with many church members.  Is that a way that God is telling me.  In the dark days of coming off had many similar experiences.  Not voices but this sense that someone is talking to me.  Sending me a message.  My bible is a comfort.  I used to worry will I find the answers.  I have I believe seen the light something made me want to change.  I do not have all the answers.  Just wanted to share
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  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you thespiceman for sharing. Indeed everyone does have different opinions, beliefs and perspective. Answers are not always obvious and can come in many different forms, a word you hear, a cloud pattern in the sky or the way a bird sings.
    I hope everyone will share, nobody has all the answers, I certainly don't, some people aren't even looking for them.  I hope that we can keep this thread free thinking with sharing but not preaching

    I have done a lot of work with past life regression and therapy which has, to me been very usefull

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    There isn't really a truth only subjective perspectives. I believe that it is not completely possible to measure brain activity fully as the brain is far to complex and can, most likely, still operate below the level of the most sensitive equipment in use. There is, as I said, also a spiritual energy that can have many effects on a person and on the body, yet it cannot even be measured as yet let alone understood.

    For the experiences "out of body" or any other type.... I think this is just a dream where the brain puts in the details expected and so people believe it to be true. The same applies to religious experiences. If your belief is strong then your brain is quite capable of generating a picture or dream incorporating it.

    For myself and using what I learnt during the coma and recovery I do not believe anything exists after death. I am not frightened by this and sometimes would happily welcome such a state. It is all about what you have to lose and the more there is the more frightening the ending would be. I have little to lose and so am not frightened by it in the slightest.

    The theory I worked out would show that there are links between multitudes of people and, since my recent discovery of my own spiritual energy, I suspect it is that which empowers those connections plus the brains ability to utilise it to greater or lesser degrees. It may also explain the mysteries considered as "paranormal" but that is way beyond where I have reached so far. Maybe someday I will tie it all together and make it complete, lol!

    I do think it quite possible for the complexity of the brain to be so clever as to make the imagination actual, but that's a different idea all together.

    Our belief systems are our own and are usually very strong. Strong enough to resist someone else changing them. So I would never try to convince other people that they are wrong or right. We are ALL entitled to our beliefs and opinions.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Topkitten I fully respect your point of view but your thoughts on how the brain can still function below what monitoring equipment can detect is a little worrying. The equipment is how Doctor's decide whether or not a person has died. If what you say were true that we could still dream then the way death is defined would have to be by some other way.  Information given by people after an OBE is not general but is specific and relates precisely to what was happening in the room at the time, clothes worn, words spoken, equipment used. Facts that can be verified by medical staff present at the time and things the patient could not possibly have known just from a dream. Cardiac Arrest Specialists from the US and UK are getting together to do an experiment whereby certain images are going to be placed where they cannot be seen by any other way than if the patient has an OBE. 
    @CockneyRebel I cannot be hypnotized as I have a phobia of giving control to another person after being held down by medical staff in 1968 and forced under anaesthetic. However I have had many experiences of slipping into a trance like state at night with some bad experiences of which I had no control but during which I was able to think clearly, even being able to decide whether to stay or return. Waking was only achieved by consciously shaking myself and almost having to fight my way out of it. Very often MOH would have to wake me as I had been yelling at those images to go away and leave me alone. I have searched for an answer and have found that by learning to close myself down and praying for it not to happen I can now rest easy. 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    @Topkitten I hope everyone will respect each others views and thoughts, this is such a wide topic that many different opinions are likely to be aired, not all of which everyone will agree with.

    @ wildlife, Hypnosis is not about giving control to another person, stage "hypnotists" have a lot to answer for. There are levels of hypnotic state and even at the deepest level you remain in control, no one can make you do anything that you would not be comfortable with. People acting like chickens on stage have their own reason for doing so when given the suggestion.
    Are you familiar with the planes of existance ? Have you tried guided meditation or self hypnosis.
    Your night time trances sound like uncontrolled OBE's although you do seem to have some control at least to return. Do you see a cord connecting you to your self ? Closing yourself down is a good way to prevent it happening. I used to build a wall for protection when I didn't understand how to control it.

    CR


    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
    No I don't see a cord but I do feel the point when I slip into this state and it's happened so often I now can think "Oh I'm here again". Last time I decided to stay longer than I normally would as I knew I needed the rest. I hung around with lots of people who weren't threatening me just strolling around. I often ask them if they've passed to Spirit and they tell me they have. Some would say it's my belief that causes this but I see it that my belief allows it to happen because I'm open to it and not afraid. So yes I do know about the different levels as I used to be in the lower levels which was frightening but now have moved on. I believe this is Spirit but wonder why I am allowed to go and come back. Maybe it's because I'm actually terrified of dying because I've had traumatic near death escapes through serious illness and car crashes that maybe Spirit are helping me overcome. I like to think so. I have also been in the halls of learning which was an immense building which words cannot describe the size. There was a path around the centre and rooms going off from it where people were doing different activities. I was with my son and I felt very much at home showing him around. The difference between this and other dreams is the clarity as if I am actually there with the ability to think and have conversations with people. I also dream of living a completely different life surrounded by people I know but not from this life. It's like having an adventure every night. This too may be because I can't do anything different in the day time without having panic attacks. I've got tapes for relaxation and guided meditation but it's hard as part of my small intestines is in spasm of which I am aware like being on a boat on a rough sea only inside me. (Trying explaining that to a PIP assessor, I actually didn't bother, ha ha). Sorry for all the long posts but if I wrote a book of my life it would be a best seller so much has happened to me.        
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    I said before that I experienced spiritual energy and using meditation I have connected to another person a couple of times and experienced their memories. I believe this may be how an OBE can occur. Presently there is no way to measure spiritual energy but it is/can be linked to the brain. It is only a supposition but I suspect that modern machines could not detect the brain's usage of this energy so could, in theory, appear dead and not be. It could explain the cases where someone is presumed dead only to come back to life without any assistance. Whilst these cases are rare they do happen from time to time.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    wildlife, long posts are necessary to try and explain in words. The next thing is for you to "learn " how to control when you travel. Time is restricted to our physical world, in the "dream state" , for want of a better term that many will understand, your experiance could last fo an hour, day week or more. when in your physical just seconds have passed.
    Have you met your Guide ?
    It is likely that at this time you are receiving healing, alas not for your physical.
    Do you know when this started ? was it after your first trauma ?
    Many unconcious travellers experiance a cord that tethers to the physical, then when they become anxious as some do or get disturbed in the physical the cord will snap back to the physical often just leaving a memory of falling, which is quite a common "dream" memory.
    For now I cannot say more, it drains me . Trying to find the connection to another is like tuning a radio, and when in physical, words are inadequate on their own. We each understand things in different ways. Sometimes you will hear or see something and days later it will mean something and open up a little more.

    TK, meditation is certainly one way that this can be achieved and not only memories can be experianced. As we "live" in the physical we only have our thought patterns / brain activity to this.
    Have you managed to "travel "?
    If so, are you aware of the tether ?

    There is lots more to share but on an open forum many will be at best sceptical, others with different understanding offended. Not everyone is ready or following the same path, but all view points are welcomed with respect

    Namaste

    CR
      

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @Topkitten Mmm interesting. Getting back to basics though of what we know for sure, the brain is an organ of the body in the same way as the heart, kidneys, liver etc. are. At the point of death it dies along with the rest of the body. The whole thing is destroyed and ceases to exist. So it would be impossible for the brain to continue to have any function regarding the use of any sort of energy, Spiritual or otherwise. That is an indisputable fact. What scientists, with the help of Medical Professionals, are currently working on is trying to find out how consciousness relates to the brain. Does it originate in the brain or does it exist outside using the brain as a processing place. and more importantly can it function independently without needing to use the brain at all. If examples of people saying they were fully conscious and being able to give verifiable information of what was happening in detail, specific and correct, while their heart was stopped and brain activity was zero (probably with their eyes closed) were rare then this question and the wish to find out more would never have arisen. That's what I find so interesting as, if found to be true, it makes it perfectly possible for our consciousness to continue after death. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @CockneyRebel I'm sorry you find it difficult and so tiring to write a lot. No I have never met my guide but it's not because I haven't tried. The unpleasant dreams did start after my first trauma but as a child I used to dream I was flying. I would be floating above people moving with swimming like arm and leg actions. Recently it happened again. I was whizzing along above country lanes having a great time. I stopped above a farm yard. My view was from above and a child was happily playing down below. She looked up and saw me but was not surprised. This made me think that wherever I was being able to move around in mid air was normal. The dream ended after I had asked her to go and find her parents so I could have a chat. As a child I remember being able to float down the stairs from top to bottom. This memory is so real I get confused as to whether this was a dream or that it happened when I was fully awake. My logical brain tells me it couldn't have but the sensation is still as real today as it was back then. I find the idea of being able to control where I go and what happens at night very exciting especially as it is a happy release from the daytime suffering.
    Does anyone else have anything they'd like to share? 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello Everybody.  I am enjoying every ones comments on this fascinating subject.  Thank you.  Having been in an induced coma after operations.  Usually in intensive care.  I never could understand why I was in a coma but  had experiences of floating.  Whiteness hearing voices.  My knowledge of all this sketchy but I could not for once explain anything to family.  Having explored the reading material on several books out there.  My knowledge was heighted.  The body is a marvellous thing and the connection between what the brain operates to the rest of the body.  It interests me.  I know my body can tolerate pain and how I deal with it.  For example if you say to yourself on a hot day gosh it is hot then you will feel hot.  If you say cool, cool, green grass then you might not feel hot.  I use several techniques like this for eating food.  You can control the portion sizes with a quick test by eating in smaller sizes of bowl not plates.  Control your mind eat with your eyes and brain combined.  Eat for when hungry.  Set times.  I supposed it is self hypnosis.  Then before each meal have glass water.  Then chew slowly take time.  It takes about 20 minutes for brain to absorb meal and register.  That is why you will feel hungry if you bolt food down.  Still pile more food onto plate.  Have more then body wont register to brain.  After meal take half hour or more have bread or fruit or yoghurt etc Then you will fill up.  I read a book about 10 years ago on self hypnosis on food.  Written by Paul Mckennna.  Also coming off addiction.  Looking at food done qualifications and the lots of courses around the subject.  It is working for me.  I have to deal with pain again take meds but have to deal with my body.  Use hypnosis techniques and relaxation methods.  Control my mind.  I am hurting but I am trying to over come the pain by these methods.  This what I do and it has taken me a long time for my body and mind to cope with self hypnosis.  There is much research and questions still in progress that need to be answered.  I had an operation once that the drug they gave me a local aesthetic did not work.  Time is money as they say.  I asked the surgeon to carry on.  Managed to do operation OK.  I had coped by using repeated mantra to myself to cope with operation.  Just on my ear by way.  So impressed the surgeon.  That he asked me how did you know how to do that?  In my long health history body has tolerated pain because every operation now the residues of all drugs etc have made me aware that it can cope.  Last big operation six hours on my hands.  Was hovering between unconscious and awake because I was aware drugs and aesthetic was not working.  I could sense them their the surgeons but I did not feel any pain.  Put me into induced coma because body suddenly realised to the brain that a major change taken place.  For days my hands I could feel the missing fingers.  This is the case for amputees I believe.  Still feel limb are there.  I want to go on more but this subject will run and run.  Thank you all.  Just want to talk about how the connection between body and brain.  Also I do have some other experiences from my operations.  I will discuss some time. 
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  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Wildlife
    Making your acquaintance has reawakened me, thank you.
     
    In the physical, my orientation is mechanical so any expalinations i try to give are in that context. If a person is more academic then my attempts are often not easily understood. It is like trying to explain that the world is round to early man.
    It can be very difficult to distinguish dreams from reality, as you say the logical  "brain" impedes and confuses.
     Have you looked into the age of aquarius and the subsequent children ?
    Most people think of the layers as going up and down but there are also parallel or sideways layers as well.
    one way that life can be looked at is by taking a comparison of a box set of movies for example. All the information is on the disc but we can only veiw what is on the screen. It is possible to fast forward or rewind any current disc but to veiw the next disc we need to change it.
    Sorry if this sounds a bit "out there" but that is an example that has just been given to me as I wrote. As I said I am mechanical in orientation.
    I am sure that within your circle there are people that can explain far better than me and help you meet your guide which can be so helpful.
    have you looked into " The secret " ? it is a bit off tangent here but is also usefull in some areas if you can overlook the commercial and selfish sides.

    hopefully talk again soon

    Namaste

    CR
     
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @thespiceman Thank-you for sharing. It is very interesting. I too have had operations but have not been as strong as you and I have been left with phobias I cannot control. Because of a bad experience with anesthetic I later in life begged a surgeon to operate using an epidural only. I didn't know it would be worse than being knocked out completely. They gave me headphones and played music while the surgery was done and I was so frightened that ever since then I have music playing in my head like when a tune repeats and you can't get rid of it. It is my brain saying that while ever I can hear the music I'm OK. 
       
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @wildlife Thank you for replying  Lovely to talk to you again great.  In the interest of science.  I do find it all absorbing and fascinating.  I know I was scared myself but something in my conscious told me to cope.  I can understand your situation.  I hope you OK.  I know every time I write a story down in my head I am start to recall the trauma I went through.  In the late 60s and 70s went to hospital in London.  The big teaching hospital there and met many young trainee doctors.  The medical procedures then were not with out problems.  I know we all have seen a lot of changes in the NHS.  I am always looking to the cultures of India and China for their medicine and beyond fascinates me.  They have lot more awareness of how in tune the body is to the brain.  I also believe in my opinion what they use as alternatives the West should consider looking at.  This a vast subject.  Done some reading but I have just touched the tip of the iceberg.  Hope to speak to you soon take care.
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  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @CockneyRebel I know very little about different types of children but have heard of this and will look into it, also know nothing about "the secret" but will look into it. I do sit in circle with a very good Medium but have only just moved from Open Circle to a more advanced one. I am receiving information but as yet am making very slow progress as my head is so full of running the Church which requires no physical effort by the way so I am able to do it with the help of MOH who is our Treasurer. It is my life and I would be very depressed and bored without it. I can say a lot more about Spiritualism as a Religion but will not unless anyone asks. It can be by PM if preferred which I think can be done on here. 
    @thespiceman I too am a great believer in alternative treatments and use them myself but I don't recommend them as it's for each person to find out for themselves what works and what doesn't. I'm currently having physio from a very well qualified lady who is also a qualified Osteopath and healer and also seeing a Nutritionist which I DO recommend to anyone who wants to help themselves. The NHS has a very negative health philosophy which most of the time waits until a condition has started before then treating the symptoms and not the cause. Things are improving but if Doctors were paid to keep people well as in the East we might not get illnesses in the first place. I was written of years ago by the NHS when no more could be done and believe had I just let things happen I wouldn't be here now. As for writing/talking about my traumas it does bring it all back which is why the PIP process sent me to a very dark place which I am working my way back from. Just this afternoon the wavy lines began (Occular Migraines) as they did the week after seeing my assessment report. It is good to share our inner most thoughts and to realize that bad reactions to frightening experiences are not a sign of weakness. Sharing and seeking help to understand why the body has gone into flight or fight and what will help to control it goes a long way to improving general well being.  
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    @ wildlife
    a google search for indigo, crystal and rainbow children should produce results.
    Unfortunately, many try to commercialise and therefore corrupt. There are many wrong turnings on the way and much misleading as well. You are on a defined path with your Church and that is good you may or may not wish to expand outside.

    I would really be most grateful for you if you are able to expand and tell us about Spiritulism and I hope that others will be interested and read with open minds

    Namaste

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    @ thespiceman

    Oriental medicine is a truly fascinating subject. As are many alternatives such as herbalism and homeopathy.
    It is usefull to share knowledge of alternatives as many people have not heard of them but recommendation as to use should not be posted as we are unable to give any medical advice even of the alternative kind. I see no harm in leading people to these and letting them discover for themselves the benefits or otherwise. Sharing knowledge is always good although not always well received

    Namaste

    CR 
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    No I do not wish to expand outside. Yes you are right about the public conception of Spiritualism but we are an SNU Church and although we don't agree with some of their rules and regulations they keep us on the right path to function as a non profit making organization. So long as we are able to remain open and cover our outgoings we're happy. 
        It's sad in a way that, although Spiritualism is a recognized Religion,   the differences between it and some of the other more well known religions are the very things that make it difficult to attract new people. We do not believe in putting pressure on people to come along. We have a FB group and advertise events but that's all.The door is open for anyone to wander in and once inside they are given a warm welcome but then left to experience a service and if after one visit they decide it's not for them that's fine. No-one preaches and everyone is accepted as they are. There is total freedom for them to do as much or as little as they wish. Our service consists of modern songs with a meaning e.g. "Love Shine a Light", "Spirit in the Sky", "Somewhere over the Rainbow" and prayers are short and the Address (Sermon) is about our philosophy on the way to treat others and any other Spiritual matters. We only allow 15 mins for this. The rest of the service is a demonstration of Mediumship equaling anything in standard and quality to that which people pay much more to see in theatres and halls throughout the world. We do have a freewill offering like a collection but entirely optional. We have a different visiting Medium each week so plenty of variety. Our attendees are of all ages and backgrounds just ordinary people, but it's the only place I know where such differences are set aside and we all get on so well together. One of the girls cleans for me so I totally trust her and I love the hug as she arrives and leaves. She is married to another lady but there is no problem with that whatsoever. To me it's a sanctuary of peace and love where you can laugh or cry and in my case panic if you're having a bad time and no-one bothers. I really don't mind anyone deciding it's not for them but without trying it how do you know? So there you have it...
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @CockneyRebel Thank you for reply.  Thank you for making a statement about alternative medicine.  I apologise if I gave the impression to look at these alternatives.  With seeking medical advice first or to stop treatment and replace with these therapies.  I agree always with what you say.  I am understand.  Thank you.  
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  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    wildlife
    Thank you for sharing and I hope that other members will read and at least try if they are still without a path.
     
    I fully understand and respect your chosen path and wish you much joy, fulfillment and enlightenment. I do envisage that your guide will come to you soon.

    The selling of service in theatres as you have mentioned has not been a positive as many people think in terms of entertainment and trickery. I had been instructed that only matrial service warranted material reward, I can sell my labour to who ever needs or wants it. Spiritual service is a gift and not mine to sell, therefore material reward should not be sought. For this reason I found a Spiritual sanctuary close to home and for some time I did attend and regularly sat in circle.I  learned much and confirmed more. I very much enjoyed the short time I had before my path led me to a different way.

    Namaste

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Jules730Jules730 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Hi Everyone. I have just joined this forum, and I to am a spiritualist. Very interesting to hear everyone's perspective. 
    Why are we hear? 
    This is my perspective only. 
    We are consciousness, having a human experience. 
    Our journey consists of many lifetimes- many experiences, many lessons, joy, sorrow etc. Spiritual growth is our purpose. To shine the light of love, being disabled in this lifetime was our choice. 
    We chose to be here on this our great Mother Earth at this important time of earths evolution. 
    For so long our planet has been a dark dense place, new lighter energies are being birthed here. We all play an important role.... Everyone! 

    Namaste 

    Jules730


  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    edited December 2017
    Hi Jules and welcome

    Thank you for sharing. Would you like to tell us a bit more about yourself  ?

    Namaste

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    i'm a nihilist so my answer will be short, haha.

    i have been a carer for years and followed scope because of that. you don't really get any support for yourself so need help from charities, and other people, on how to deal with things sometimes. plus i like to support disability causes to the best of my ability (which isn't much but i like to think it's helped in some small way somehow). i feel i've coped quite well overall, and every bit of help i've had has been very useful. this has been my main role in life and i love caring for others, from being the big sister to becoming a parent to my own brood of 4 kids.

    unfortunately i started to become mildly disabled a few years ago myself but it didn't affect my abilities too much and on the times it did it was only for a couple of days every few months or so, so nothing to worry about really. until a year ago, then my arthritis seemed to become really bad and limiting, and in jan 17 my lovely nurse referred me to the gym as she thought that'd help, and it did. my joints and mild problems went away and i was like my full physical self again. 3 months later i started getting my first problems permanently, never been in so much pain, so depressed, and wanting to die in my entire life. this went on constantly for 7 months almost, so i am here on the forums because of that. i've basically had to stop moving to stop the pain, it's like doing the slightest thing strains my joints so i do nothing and for the first time ever i've gone from the carer to needing the care. i find this frustrating, boring (used to doing loads usually), and i just want my body back but am learning to live like this.

    usually i do studies in my spare time, i'm very interested in the body and love learning about that, particularly when it comes to cells, DNA,,and some psychology is interesting to me also. but what i have now (no diagnosis yet) seems to be affecting my brain also, i type a lot of things wrong and can't concentrate and even went temporarily blind in both eyes the other night. so can't study any more and really miss that too.

    so i am me, but the not the me i'm used to being and i miss her a lot. i'm still doing caring despite this, just in a supervisory role.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi feir

    Thank you for sharing. I learn things all the time but have never come across nihilism, had to google it.
    I am probably the exact opposite, but respect everyones view

    I am so  sorry that things are not turning out well for you, most of us can relate to missing our old selves. I hope you manage to get a diagnosis soon and that you can get some relief. We see many people on the forums with chronic undiagnosed pain and other hidden illnesses. Fibromyalgia is becoming more recognised as one of these. Arthritis, both osteo and rhematoid often go hand in hand with Lupus and can be excruciating as my wife and I know.

    I hope that you will find a way to continue to study all the things you are interested in to keep your mind active

    I offer my best wishes for the New Year and that you can be the best you can

    Namaste

    CR


    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
    thanks @CockneyRebel for the welcoming message

    i get my MRI results back in just over a week, that might find something hopefully. hope yours and your wifes pain isn't bad.

    i'll risk getting into the philosophical debate though (as i've also missed these too, i will warn you i like to ramble on as well) and my thoughts about this, based on human sciences mainly:

    "This posed the question, if we are alive then we must be some form of energy which cannot be destroyed so what does our living energy transform into ?"

    when we die the decomposition of our bodies takes energy, once decomposition is complete you can physically see nothing of a carcass but it's bones and i'm pretty sure that these produce little to no energy and cannot have thoughts. but our bones can contain our memories because we know that DNA is able to retain memories as it's how cells manage to replicate, function and pass on traits. so, interestingly, even after we die, there is definitely something left of us until it all decays into molecules to be used by something else.

    it's possible that even our experiences are retained in the DNA*, so our actual memory could in there as well as everything we do know is in there.once we are broken down into molecules then i think there really is nothing left of us, but considering the above if you have had children then it's also possible your DNA inside of them contains you (albeit in their form with their experiences also), but we can extract DNA and parts of that so it may be possible you also exist in another generation and could be extracted from one of your future generations of family. all those people paying to be frozen are wasting their money if this is true lol.

    one thing i think is that we only mentally exist because our body is taking in information, using that, and able to because it sends electrical impulses all over itself to make sense of the information it receives. do we do that without a live physical body? no. so for me it seems it's unlikely that our 'soul' exists outside of the body. but maybe it exists in future generations that you have passed your DNA into?

    there's so much we don't know that many things are also likely at this point, that's just my opinion.

    *we think DNA passes on memories from generation to generation because we have some instincts from birth that are vital to our survival instead of having to learn how to survive from experience, even if these traits do still make babies dependent on a parent figure.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @feir Hi and welcome to the discussion. I read your post with interest. You know a lot more than I do about what you have described. However if what you say is true about there being nothing left albeit after quite some time after the body has completely disintegrated how do you explain the many documented cases of children from as young as 2 remembering past lives. Information they talk about so casually of a life as someone they are not related to and checks made using what they have so innocently spoken about are found to be true. 
              If our consciousness can only function when the physical body is fully operational how are cardiac arrest patients able to describe in detail what was happening, including exact words spoken, not just near to them but outside the room as well when their heart had stopped and brain function was zero. By your reasoning this should not happen. These are not Spiritualists who, as someone else has suggested, have a belief which causes these things to be imagined, they are anyone who has been taken to hospital and medical staff are talking to them afterwards so neither party are looking for this to happen. 
              There are cases of electrocution, people killed suddenly in road accidents who have been brought back and who talk about being fully aware and being able to see their lifeless bodies being treated by emergency services. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to persuade you away from your belief I'm just trying to have a discussion that might explain how this can happen.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    @ wildlife
    An interesting point you have raised with regard to past lives. I have worked with pastlife trauma  regression therapy with some real success. Verifiable details emerged that could not have been known beforehand. I do not attempt to convince anyone else as to the validity, I know enough for myself.

    If we accept that past lives are, can we also accept that we are born again to earthly life ? or are these just memories etched into the ether that are simply picked up when the right receiver is born. Radio waves are out there but until you have a receiver and the correct tuning you cannot hear them.

    Namaste

    CR

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    I have a very down to earth logical mind and when presented with a huge amount of evidence for something I don't need to understand how it works. The evidence tells me that it is more likely than not to be true. To deny that there is anything but the physical life we're living now is to call all the Mediums of the world fakes, and all the authors of books containing examples of things we don't understand but that did actually happen fakes. Maybe their books should be reclassified as fiction. I cannot deny all that I know and see on a weekly basis. To my mind the evidence comes first and is what awakens enough curiosity for those with the necessary expertise, equipment and money to start investigating how that something works not whether or not it works. That's where we're at. 
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  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
    wildlife said:
    @feir Hi and welcome to the discussion. I read your post with interest. You know a lot more than I do about what you have described. However if what you say is true about there being nothing left albeit after quite some time after the body has completely disintegrated how do you explain the many documented cases of children from as young as 2 remembering past lives. Information they talk about so casually of a life as someone they are not related to and checks made using what they have so innocently spoken about are found to be true.
     
              If our consciousness can only function when the physical body is fully operational how are cardiac arrest patients able to describe in detail what was happening, including exact words spoken, not just near to them but outside the room as well when their heart had stopped and brain function was zero. By your reasoning this should not happen. These are not Spiritualists who, as someone else has suggested, have a belief which causes these things to be imagined, they are anyone who has been taken to hospital and medical staff are talking to them afterwards so neither party are looking for this to happen. 
              There are cases of electrocution, people killed suddenly in road accidents who have been brought back and who talk about being fully aware and being able to see their lifeless bodies being treated by emergency services. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to persuade you away from your belief I'm just trying to have a discussion that might explain how this can happen.
    the physical body hasn't decayed during cardiac arrest and neither has the brain, the heart may have stopped pumping oxygen to the brain but we're not sure how long the brain has to be starved of oxygen for for it to actually die (used to be thought around 8-20 mins, but people are surviving being starved for much longer than that, even newborns are). many people do change after a stroke or some other disease that caused a part or parts of their brain to be starved of oxygen. they can change physically but they can also experience personality changes.

    also this is creepy* so i'll shove it right at the end of this post so anyone not wanting to read it doesn't have to. it does seem to back up what you say.

    anyway, out of body experiences are very possible during brain damage, brain diseases and disorders, brain tampering (yes they have gone into peoples brains and stimulated them and some people have had out of body experiences that way), trauma can cause dissociation, and even drugs can cause them, i've heard even meditating can do it (astral projection). a lot of things can alter the brain so that it does not function in the usual way.

    i'll explain the decay thing a little more, so you understand what i mean exactly and what i believe. i'll try and keep it simple but elongated to explain as much as i can.

    firstly i'll explain what i mean by you/me. 'us/me', is your physical alive body absorbing information from everything it experiences and making sense of that so it is able to interact with the world and understand it as it sees it. you do this by using connections throughout the body to communicate information and then store this information, and that is what makes you, you. your physical body helps you to do this in the way it does, without that body, or without being able to sense things the way your body does (and has done), you would not be you in the way you are right now.

    eventually all your parts will decompose and become 100% nonfunctional as you, they stop sending impulses to other parts and their energy is used to decay only. it's safe to say it's likely you cannot receive or process information any more. if not cremated your physical body will remain as a storage system only but is not functional as you, so although parts of you are gone, parts of you do remain. what it stores we don't know exactly but have some theories. we only know your DNA can create a replica of you physically at this time. if it can also have your memories then the replica would exactly be you.

    i believe we have a soul, but i believe it cannot function once the body stops working. i haven't died forever though so can't say this is a definite, it just seems logical to me that once the body stops existing then so do you. based on if you believe your neural system is the primary factor in making you, you and that you need that system to be able to exist. like i said if memories can indeed be stored in the DNA then it's also possible that another copy of you exactly could exist (up till the time of creation and then that you experiences different things to you and stops being you, in the same way when you experience new things you stop being exactly you also).

    children are great absorbers of information with pretty good imaginations, they also don't understand how the world behaves. Jean Piaget has done a lot of research on the developing child and his theories are interesting (and still tested out today) and seem to hold true. they explain how children think, often illogically compared to an adult but logically for someone inexperienced in life. he gave us good insight into how they think; others are exactly like them, that others can see things only from their perspective, and how they have an egocentric view of the world. so it's definitely feasible that a child of 2 would think they were someone else. couple of things i can think of is because they don't always understand that they are separate entities from others, they could pretend to be superman if they wanted to but we know he doesn't exist so we'd automatically presume they are playing and pretending in the normal way a child would. it's funny we might think a kid pretending to be a real person might not be doing the same thing as playing being superman. also reinforcement is good for kids, and they love attention, give them attention or make them feel special for being someone else would definitely give reinforcement for that behaviour and encourage them to continue being that person and expand on their stories. i'd really be more impressed if children experienced things that had never happened before or not experienced things that happen to so many people or are so famous that it's unlikely they'd never heard of the things they were talking about

    there is such a thing as false memory but i don't believe a child so young would be able to produce those. i feel imagination is much more likely to be the case.

    but, if memories could be passed on via DNA then maybe they are somehow remembering those memories? personally not had this happen to me though and don't believe we have the ability to remember anything other than what is necessary for our survival but it's possible some people have the ability to process others memories from their DNA being them inside them.i do wonder if any of these kids grew up and still believe they are someone else? i googled but couldn't find such info..

    how do you think the memories got into a child? just out of interest as i have no other ideas.

    hope none of that sounds condescending, i'm a very logical thinker but on the internet i worry things can come across in the wrong way. also hoping the info is easy to understand as i know a lot about the brain and psychology, as well as philosophy. and apologies, i know way too much stuff for a normal person and probably bored you half to death with my answer  here. but thanks, it's a pleasure to use my brain -even if it's not at it's best right now. :) and all of this is my opinion based on what knowledge i personally have about certain things, as well as a little imagination bringing up possibilities. also i'm not denouncing anyone elses beliefs i just think mine are feasible.

    *some scientists do believe that you are aware of your death when you die, and it is thanks to the NDEs that you mention is why they think this. but what you mention does bring up the possibility that you can still exist despite not having electrical impulses connecting through your physical form (if that's what brain death means in these cases?) otherwise i will believe the out of body experiences as what being because of what i described earlier.


  • Dawn68Dawn68 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    I'm an odd ball I believe in God,but I'm a natural born physic I dont hear voices I see things word's pictures. and feel things. Not all the time but I'm always spot on. I've survived death at least twice. My biggest problem is that I have bipolar disorder and professionals says "Dawn do you hear or see things that arnt there?" my answer isnt "oh yes all the time" because I've been seeing things my whole life I believe that for me it's as natural as breathing. I believe in life after death sorry if this is rather ****    
  • TopkittenTopkitten Member Posts: 1,263 Pioneering
    I always find it odd when people take a stance on something that will, at some point, be proved wrong. As science progresses it gains new abilities and new limits. Just because we cannot detect something now doesn't mean that, at some future point, we won't. I put forward a suggestion that even though the doctors may think a person dead they may not be. Our ability to detect life signs is constantly improving and you only need to look into history to understand that. A hundred years ago a person in a coma might well have been buried alive because they could not detect what we can now. People had to be left in coma's until they woke naturally only 20 years ago, now science can bring them out sooner. Science improves and decisions change based on new information.

    Spiritual energy cannot currently be detected and measured but it does exist. Who is to say whether it is sufficient to keep the brain alive when everything else shuts down? Maybe, once it can be detected measured and understood, it will change the definition of death.

    I still tend to be sceptical about OBE's though. They can be explained by a spiritual link with a person in the room and having access to their memories. Because the body is sedated does not mean that a strongly spiritual person is necessarily incapable of communication. Lives are relatively short compared to the amount of information that is available to be discovered so as generations go by new scientific discoveries change society and change perspectives. I am a little sad in that respect that some of the theories I feel are true will never be proven in my lifetime.

    TK
    "I'm on the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell" - from Wrong side of heaven by Five Finger Death Punch.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    Hi Everyone, Thank-you so much for your input to this discussion. Something rather strange has been happening whilst you have been telling us about your individual beliefs. I am reading a book ATM and after going to bed last night I first read @feir's post then transferred straight to my book which described an experiment carried out whereby Psychics able to remote view were sent down in a submarine to a depth where it has been proved that electromagnetic impulses cannot function. The results indicated that thoughts do not work through the electromagnetic field. I have only mentioned this as being strange that I have no control over what you're all writing and yet the book seems to be answering the points as they are written. 
          It went on to describe a very plausible and proven reason why the majority of people stick with their beliefs even when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Experiments, which I can tell you more about if you're interested, were carried out shortly before the US Elections in 2004 that show how decisions are not made on facts alone. Each time a subject discounted the evidence and decided their belief was true the brain registers pleasure to make them feel good. This feeling over rides the evidence and forms the main basis for them not being able to even consider the facts. 80 odd per cent of people react in this way. Others, who are very much in the minority, and this is based on different types of personality, disregard the pleasure felt and are able to consider the facts for what they are. I have tried to write this as general information regarding people as a whole. It is not personal to anyone on this forum. I have resisted the temptation to continue to write about how some of the beliefs posted here can be discounted when the facts of each case are examined.
               I am very interested in now turning this discussion into how this concept can help us improve our health. I will start by suggesting that open mindedness about all the different types of treatment which may help rather than just sticking with the NHS may be a good way forward. Anyone else have any ideas?    
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you wildlife, DannyMoore, fier, Dawn and TK all for sharing.
    We each have different understandings and knowledge to share and I thank you for doing so with repect for each other.
    My own knowledge and experiances I will try and share but it can be  very diffficult for me to explain much that is outside my command of this world language.

    Please keep sharing, all knowledge  and thoughts are adding to our collective understanding

    Namaste

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello Everbody and those I have not met before lovely to meet you and welcome.  I was talking about the Indian and Chinese cultures where they believe in a second life reborn.  I was wondering then if I can be so bold.  How does that belief stand?  I read every ones contribution and am enthralled that I have a purpose in life.  I still get confused on the basic understanding of it all.  Although I believe that some of us have been here before.  Never forget lad in our village.  Had different look to the brothers he had.  They all dark hair and he was blond.  He was in my class at school and kept going on about a second life.  We of course being about under ten at the time great hilarity well were just young kids.  Any way went to a military airbase school visit.  Next thing he talking about he was really a German Airman bombed and crashed died in the plane.  Started talking about all the incidents in the War and much more.  I was as the rest of us all now not only baffled but went in long stories of his past life.  How does a child be like that?  He had no knowledge of the War.  Plus he startled us all with his vivid recollection of his death.  How he died and where. The local paper got hold of this and published the story.  My amazement more flooded him like his.  Where does that come from?  I was curious then and always be.
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  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    i just think neurons convey information so that parts of the body can connect with each other and make sense of the information they take in. once they stop functioning then so does the information, and you can't access the stored info any more either.

    wish i'd just said that in the first place haha, seems a lot more simple than last nights ramblings. :D
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @thespiceman The boy you knew at school is one of many thousands of cases where children remember past lives. The difference between imagination and something that looks like they may have lived before are: 1. When they talk about their job/things they did that they have no knowledge of in this life e.g. parts of WW2 aircraft and how they work 2. Claiming to have been someone who can be traced as having lived as a real person with dates, names of themselves and relatives, where they lived, what they ate even. 3. How they died. Some are born with limbs missing or birthmarks corresponding to injuries sustained in a previous life. Some are taken back to a place they say they lived and recognize it and relatives still living are greeted with genuine emotion and sometimes distress at having to leave and go back to their present life. 
          If the children were making this up the information would not correspond to facts that can be checked out. Children can sometimes also remember their existence in between lives. Adults can be regressed under hypnosis when similar info. as the children is given. 
         Regarding Eastern medicine I have tried some things that didn't seem to work but then again I don't trust Western Medicine to do the best it can for my conditions. I am somewhere in between believing there is a place for all types of treatment and with knowledge of what is wrong so much more can be done. I have felt ill for years every winter. My GP has no answer for this. Recently I've started seeing a Nutritionist who suggested I may be short of Vit. D the sunshine vitamin. I now take it as a supplement and this winter am feeling much better. I do understand that a lot of money can be wasted and damage to our health by trying different things, but if you're sensible and seek help from people who know what they're talking about, doing that alongside your Doctor's advice and treatment is how I like to use alternative remedies. 
  • Neil2017Neil2017 Member Posts: 157 Courageous
    Talking of past lives and all that. Did anyone see that news item on Egyptian mummies And now being able to use special photography to reveal hyroglifics on face masks and tge like? Very interesting as surely that is a race that believed in some form of Spiritualism with all those pyramids.
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @wildlife Thank you for replying.  Giving me information on past lives.  I watch some days the series Unsolved Mysteries on CBS there is always a story or two like this.  I just thought put it out there.  Thank you very much.  I am as I said interested in alternative medicines.  The problem is that is such a vast and wide field.  New ideas and certain types of herbs and spices come on to the web pages every day.  I am always fascinated and curious about every thing.  How about the common cold.  Page after pages of cures and certain herbs and spices. that benefit the misery.  The body is a marvellous thing and the relationships we have with it.  Need to be aware of how complicated it is.  I have been looking at how body and mind works for a long time and I will admit my knowledge has been strengthened by contributions here.  Thank you all.  Who needs the Open University?  We have our community.  I will some time in the future talk about herbs and spices and some of their benefits.  I am a bit scared of how far I can go explaining.  With out the SCOPE team saying no you cannot say that.  I am grateful to them for keeping us all in line.  Hate breaking rules just like a bit of flexibility now and again.  Great to talk speak to you soon.
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  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    It is very hard to take anything on trust, we are all used to being lied to, conned and exploited. Early man thought the world was flat. Some people don't accept that we have landed on the moon. Have you ever approached an electric fence and touched it ?
    There are many fantastic  things that have been experianced by individuals but remain as myth and legend because unless we see for our selves we do not belive.
    I have said before that I belive most religions started with the founder trying to explain an understanding they have to people that do not have that understanding.
    If you witness an event you are far more likely to belive than if you are told about it. Our logical brain kicks in and with the knowledge that we have gained decides whether some thing is real/ possible or just trickery and lies.
    If, for example, you have a degree in quantum maths how would you explain what you know to a three year old ?
    Does something exist outside the life we know ? Is there something before birth and after death ? Is there "life" elsewhere ?
    We can choose to belive or deny and either some people will get a suprise or it won't matter.
    There is much knowledge that could be shared but is denied due to our in ability to accept that which we don't understand. We would rather trust our man made sciences to tell us what is and isn't possible. Where did the inspiration come from that created the wheel ? or any of the things we now take for granted.
    In the last 50 years technology seems to be speeding up at an almost unstopable pace. My Gran would never have believed you could walk around with a telephone.
    Is it possible that Fairies do exist ?

    CR


    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Dawn68Dawn68 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    I think there is a saying "we all need something to believe in" and I think that is true. I have heard my special needs son when he was very young say things that he could not of known from conventional sources.
    I have felt such a strong need to pass on a "message" to someone that I'd seen but not spoken on a facebook group. The things I told her and the phrases I used were not mine,and I had no way of knowing what I did. But I put her mind at ease and gave her  the answers she needed.
    I firmly believe in life after death we carnt go through all that we do for nothing.
    A methodist minister once told me "Its better to die in believe and be wrong,than to die in terror and be right"
    D xx
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