The passing of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

Kathy_Bramley

People like the ultra-conservative Westbrook Baptist Church who picket random veteran funerals to make an irrational protest against gay rights are doing something illegal, horrible and in no way healthy. The protests in the UK have been far removed from that, no graveside become arena besides the queues to see the coffin lying in state or, I've heard, video it during its funeral procession (but grotesquely hypocritical and disrespectful of the important part of you ask me), but otherwise all well protected.

The idea of animosity to the crown being disgusting or the pressure to see such suppressed seems over the top to me. I'm not sure if this is the time or place to express vitriol about different opinions expressed on the Queen.

I don't think PDA tendencies is a valid way to delegitimize all political dissent, critique and protest. Quite a lot of people are upset about their own grandparent's suffering and ongoing inequality and conflict. But if that angle helps people find more gentle acceptance of the breadth of views that's good. I encourage that compassion and broader still. 

It's a support forum about disability not a test of true patriotism I hope and I hope nobody's less valued or supported for having their reasons to feel things.

And even outside of Hollywood & Tom Cruise films, sometimes the "Minority Report" is the right one. 

No community is monolithic by any means - including marginalized non white identities - the range of African diasporic identities, Indian, Pakistani, Irish and others where there's been violence under the auspices, as well as those affected by ongoing cuts, inequity, injustice and inequality - and there will be a variety of feeling on the issues here but there's more that unites us or that could. There's many many examples of solidarity where people nowadays might not expect it. People them might not have either. 

Siwheels73

daresbury1978 said:

The UK is expert when it comes to staging that kind of event (i.e. the "State Funeral") but what has it cost financially and who pays? (the taxpayer?). Yesterday's ceremonies and the whole programme of "public" mourning needs to be understood from a political and economic perspective. With regard to the issue "time and place" I do not think that our right to free speech should be open to limitation whatever sensitivities people may feel. Monarchy is hugely expensive and totally undemocratic. Thinking about expense one might ask how it is that Charles can announce a further week of grieving for himself and the family without any mention of financial implications. No mention here of the event getting counted as "unpaid leave"? With reference to the costs of the Royal Family the research undertaken by Republic UK concluded that "Prince Charles gets the equivalent of £38,000 per  hour for spending a third of his time meeting people and shaking hands. That is 3140 times the average  hourly wage of the UK's key workers". Then what about the exponential rise in energy costs and the many palaces and other residences used part time by members of the Royal family. You and I will be expected to fork out extra funds for that at a time when huge numbers of more ordinary citizens struggle to "make ends meet". Time for real change I think!

There is one thing with your comments, and that is that it was always publicised that although NATIONAL Mourning would end at Midnight on Tuesday, ROYAL Mourning continues until next Monday, to allow the Royal Family to get out of the glare of the Press, and to allow them to grieve.

As for a Republic being less of a pressure on the Taxpayer, you clearly know very much about other Republics around the world. Most of them are more of a pressure on their Taxpayers than Monarchies. Your expressed views on Republicanism clearly need a lot more facts within them.

daresbury1978

Thanks for your comments siwheels73! Naturally, Republic UK wants a republic with President that is free from corruption. With regard to the point "a lot more facts" with regard to which I totally agree I can only recommend that you take a look at the Republic UK website which is bursting with evidence. Now that our newspapers are more "back to normal" I am very interested to read about the Welsh nationalist/republican protests with regard to the Crown's imposing upon them a new "Prince of Wales" i.e. without consultation! No doubt it was they who were doing the "booing" last week when King Charles visited Wales. The Royals don't seem to understand that their time of power, privilege and wealth is coming to its end!

chiarieds

Whatever anyone's views about the monarchy, as this thread is about the death of Queen Elizabeth, I think it would be more appropriate @daresbury1978 if you started a new post about your views, which you are entitled to express, & leave people to continue on topic about the loss of Her Majesty.

As regards our new Prince of Wales, & appreciating that some may find the title historically contentious, polls have shown that some 57% of Welsh people thought that there should be a new Prince of Wales after Charles was declared king. Please see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62888009

Kathy_Bramley

@daresbury1978 I'm slightly insulted you've been more interested in arguing with other people than acknowledging me or that kind of emotional solidarity and understanding - I hope I'm not deficiently staunch in your eyes.
I wanted to create a space for alternative viewpoints because I believe in it & have been upset by the imposing vine and conflicts that have seemed unnecessary, the dismissal of reasons for complicated feelings or outright anger, the lack of room given. If we're a support forum as well as an activist one it seems right to acknowledge the breadth of emotion. This isn't Twitter, but believe me I can argue my ground.   

@chiarieds I slightly agree that a different thread might be good for detailed arguments, or maybe maybe not having it out on here. Except I think some comment was more than warranted. 
This was the official reaction thread for encompassing reactions to the Queen but content skewed to only one type of reactions. I have been upset by the whole thing in a different way. There's all types of configuration, a broad range that might not feel safe or comfortable to speak feeling more vulnerable. I tried to bridge this by explaining why there's a range of reactions & views and appealing to our wider purpose here. 
I wanted to create space for dissenting alternative viewpoints as well as maintained focus on disability support and friendly solidarity around the issues we face. I was afraid that there's an inequality or gatekeeping, an unfair respectability filter based on having the right feelings on the Queen.  Don't you think it's important to avoid that!? 

Cartini

chiarieds said:

Whatever anyone's views about the monarchy, as this thread is about the death of Queen Elizabeth, I think it would be more appropriate @daresbury1978 if you started a new post about your views, which you are entitled to express, & leave people to continue on topic about the loss of Her Majesty.

As regards our new Prince of Wales, & appreciating that some may find the title historically contentious, polls have shown that some 57% of Welsh people thought that there should be a new Prince of Wales after Charles was declared king. Please see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-62888009

57% of 1000 people (570) taken in 2018 is hardly indicative of how the Welsh nation feels now.  When you compare the outdated result (4 years old) with the current petition of 29,000 signatures calling for the titles to be scrapped, I would say there is a strong call for the titles to go.

Personally it doesn`t make a blind bit of difference to me, I`m not a fan of the monarchy.

Not only that, I take any survey result originating from YouGov with a pinch of salt due to the fact that "voters" select anything to receive points (I`ve done so in the past, as have people I have worked with), 5000 of which results in a £50 payout.

Kathy_Bramley

I'd rather agree the range of what we're about here and not exclude anyone than talk endlessly about the late queen  or the new King for good or bad anyway - arguing who was properly respectful or exactly how many people approve won't heat the house or deal with other issues we face this autumn-winter - but people have a right to a range of responses and it was a topical issue/momentous occasion and slightly destabilising moment so right to raise as a topic. 
I'd like us to show this is a safe space for everyone. Anger is a normal part of grief if you'd call it that - reaction! A large percentage definitely not grief. We didn't know her. Though I appreciate many people feel like they did. 

Kathy_Bramley

Correction: "imposing vine" should have been imposing vibe (of the way grieving the queen, "respect" etc has been such a dominant narrative including the arrest of dissenting protesters. Mirroring the suppressions in Africa, India, Ireland and Northern Ireland. Although active protest often isn't worth it to people who are most marginalized.

And I'm not a royalist, if that's not clear. The space I wanted to carve was for that POV. But on an equal & friendly footing. 

daresbury1978

I think that expressing one's right to express one's views freely can be upsetting for some (even many?) but that right has to be defended strongly partly because it had to be fought for historically. Is it not also about the "right to self - determination"  which the disabled peoples' movement fought to achieve but which we know only too well can be undermined? The Welsh protests might be understood about the right to self - determination at a national level? I am ready to stop making further comments under this heading (i.e. "The Passing of her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 11") as I believe that between now and the Coronation day increasing evidence will come into the public sphere to demonstrate the growing questioning about the future of the monarchy and which is already becoming apparent. The challenge to Monarchy is about protecting our democracy. It is political and economic. thank you all for your comments and wish you well!