PIP. I avoid dealing with People due to stress. So how can I say I need a 'Person' to prompt me?

NoOne

Title is pretty much explanatory. I can't think of anything more to say other than I feel I argue against myself on the PIP Form.

chiarieds

Deleted

NoOne

chiarieds said:

As I just replied on your other thread @NoOne - it's a hypothetical question as many claimants live on their own. Imagine the help you need, even if you don't get that help/have difficulty interacting with others/wouldn't want someone else helping you, etc.

So (and I still am not getting it) I say I need help and try to get Points, but then I go and say "But I wouldn't want that help" and try to get more points, and the Points for needing help are not then deducted because the "need" is in a way not there because it would not be satisfied? Yeah I'm still confused!

Lottie1732

@NoOne I have the same issues but really they're not contradictions.  For many of the daily living activities I need prompting.  I don't get prompting from anyone. I need it though. I have daily living points because of this. 

By the same token, those who could prompt me to do x or y, do not because I don't allow it - by that I mean I exclude them from my personal life to a certain extent. They (friends and family) don't know that I'm not doing x or y properly. I avoid contact with them where I can and they also "know" not to involve themselves because I have a barrier up between us. (sad though that is).  So, I also have been given points for social phobia/isolation or whatever it might be called. 

Perhaps a little rephrase of "but I wouldn't want that help" to "I'm not able to allow or accept that help". You could take that part out completely and say that you avoid contact with people because xxx. Then you're not referencing the help/prompting that you need. 

OverlyAnxious

I also have this contradiction.  Ultimately I scored maximum points for 'mixing with people' instead of scoring points for 'prompting' on other questions.  

I'm not aware of your background, but perhaps you should be scoring points above the 'prompting' level for some of the descriptors.

NoOne

Lottie1732 said:

@NoOne I have the same issues but really they're not contradictions.  For many of the daily living activities I need prompting.  I don't get prompting from anyone. I need it though. I have daily living points because of this. 

By the same token, those who could prompt me to do x or y, do not because I don't allow it - by that I mean I exclude them from my personal life to a certain extent. They (friends and family) don't know that I'm not doing x or y properly. I avoid contact with them where I can and they also "know" not to involve themselves because I have a barrier up between us. (sad though that is).  So, I also have been given points for social phobia/isolation or whatever it might be called. 

Perhaps a little rephrase of "but I wouldn't want that help" to "I'm not able to allow or accept that help". You could take that part out completely and say that you avoid contact with people because xxx. Then you're not referencing the help/prompting that you need. 

Something they did with me that I could see you could comment on was not eating properly. They took points off me for it. I phoned and spoke to someone. Their reasoning was that "you do eventually eat". How have you avoided that since sounds like you need the prompt, don't get it, but maybe still eventually do it?

NoOne

OverlyAnxious said:

I also have this contradiction.  Ultimately I scored maximum points for 'mixing with people' instead of scoring points for 'prompting' on other questions.  

I'm not aware of your background, but perhaps you should be scoring points above the 'prompting' level for some of the descriptors.

I wish they would take me seriously on the mixing. The thing is you would not know. I don't shake. Don't sweat. I feel ill instead. I go weak. Dizzy. My Mum would know if I ever saw one of the bullies from work because she'd say 'you've gone a funny colour, what's happened?'. Then I worry for days and weeks after. Actually it's a reason I was finally discharged because I'd start going down hill months before my next Appointment because I didn't want to go and engage.

EDIT:  I noticed the use of 'instead'. Do you mean it was points for prompting OR mixing, but not both? I'm awkward!

OverlyAnxious

NoOne said:

OverlyAnxious said:

I also have this contradiction.  Ultimately I scored maximum points for 'mixing with people' instead of scoring points for 'prompting' on other questions.  

I'm not aware of your background, but perhaps you should be scoring points above the 'prompting' level for some of the descriptors.

EDIT:  I noticed the use of 'instead'. Do you mean it was points for prompting OR mixing, but not both? I'm awkward!

Yes, full points for mixing, none for prompting on other descriptors, in my case. 

Trying to deal with any person at all is an extra 'layer' of stress for me in any task or event.  So there is no way that prompting could help.

In theory, a person could get points for both, if they can manage one friend or relative but not a crowd or new people for example.  I'm a fairly unique case. 

NoOne

OverlyAnxious said:

NoOne said:

OverlyAnxious said:

I also have this contradiction.  Ultimately I scored maximum points for 'mixing with people' instead of scoring points for 'prompting' on other questions.  

I'm not aware of your background, but perhaps you should be scoring points above the 'prompting' level for some of the descriptors.

EDIT:  I noticed the use of 'instead'. Do you mean it was points for prompting OR mixing, but not both? I'm awkward!

Yes, full points for mixing, none for prompting on other descriptors, in my case. 

Trying to deal with any person at all is an extra 'layer' of stress for me in any task or event.  So there is no way that prompting could help.

In theory, a person could get points for both, if they can manage one friend or relative but not a crowd or new people for example.  I'm a fairly unique case. 

Ah it's not what I meant - I meant the reason behind giving points, not what they actually gave, but I think you covered it by saying in theory you could score both.

I've just hit this in the Descriptors "The other person may be a friend or family member. However, a close and comforting relationship, without the additional need for this training or experience, is not sufficient to constitute social support. It is the training or experience that is necessary for the social support to be effective". Does this mean like you mentioned a friend or relative, but one that does not have training or experience, will not be social support? I don't know what they mean by experience? Experience of the person or general experience in the field? Honestly I've done crazy things in the past because of mixing with people. I don't think you'd know by seeing me though.

NoOne

Im threatened help to do stuff.

I can relate to that!

OverlyAnxious

NoOne said:

I've just hit this in the Descriptors "The other person may be a friend or family member. However, a close and comforting relationship, without the additional need for this training or experience, is not sufficient to constitute social support. It is the training or experience that is necessary for the social support to be effective". Does this mean like you mentioned a friend or relative, but one that does not have training or experience, will not be social support? I don't know what they mean by experience? Experience of the person or general experience in the field? Honestly I've done crazy things in the past because of mixing with people. I don't think you'd know by seeing me though.

Social support is only relevant for 9C - 4 points for mixing with people.  That should be a trained carer or therapist type person with experience in the field, although it is not explicitly written in the wording so there is some discretion there.

If an untrained close relative could help you then that would come under the prompting descriptor (9B) instead.

If you are highly likely to come to harm, or cause harm, from mixing that would be 9D.

It sounds like you don't show 'overwhelming phycological distress' if you are able to function well enough that other people cannot tell.  Though it would be up to you to prove that to the assessor if you believe it does fit your case.

poppy123456

OverlyAnxious said:

NoOne said:

I've just hit this in the Descriptors "The other person may be a friend or family member. However, a close and comforting relationship, without the additional need for this training or experience, is not sufficient to constitute social support. It is the training or experience that is necessary for the social support to be effective". Does this mean like you mentioned a friend or relative, but one that does not have training or experience, will not be social support? I don't know what they mean by experience? Experience of the person or general experience in the field? Honestly I've done crazy things in the past because of mixing with people. I don't think you'd know by seeing me though.

Social support is only relevant for 9C - 4 points for mixing with people.  That should be a trained carer or therapist type person with experience in the field, although it is not explicitly written in the wording so there is some discretion there.

If an untrained close relative could help you then that would come under the prompting descriptor (9B) instead.

If you are highly likely to come to harm, or cause harm, from mixing that would be 9D.

That’s not correct. Activity 9C doesn’t have to be a trained person. It can be a relative or a close friend. 

My daughter scored points for 9C for needing support from either myself or my elder daughter. 

Needing prompting is quite different to needing social support. Prompting can also qualify as social support but it must be delivered by someone with training or experience. More details here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
There was also the changes in law for this from 2016. More details here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-changes/social-support-changes-to-pip-law-from-6-april-2016

NoOne

My daughter scored points for 9C for needing support from either myself or my elder daughter. 

Could that be because you have the "experience" of your daughter, even though not trained?

NoOne

I'm actually worried to see the Dr (I have things I should see him about like chest pains and other things) in case he pulls a move like in the past and decide I should be working. Don't know if I've said it but all of my downfall began by bullying at work. All the lows come from dealing with people and my subsequent reactions.

poppy123456

NoOne said:

My daughter scored points for 9C for needing support from either myself or my elder daughter. 

Could that be because you have the "experience" of your daughter, even though not trained?

I don't know what you mean by the "experince of my daughter." She's certainly not experienced.  I'm not trained to support her and i don't know why i would be. She's my daughter and i've supported her all her life, through all parts of daily life.

For this descriptor you don't need a trained person.

NoOne

poppy123456 said:

NoOne said:

My daughter scored points for 9C for needing support from either myself or my elder daughter. 

Could that be because you have the "experience" of your daughter, even though not trained?

I don't know what you mean by the "experince of my daughter." She's certainly not experienced.  I'm not trained to support her and i don't know why i would be. She's my daughter and i've supported her all her life, through all parts of daily life.

For this descriptor you don't need a trained person.

No I mean your experience of your daughter is the 'experience' in the end of this description (in bold)

"The other person may be a friend or family member. However, a close and comforting relationship, without the additional need for this training or experience, is not sufficient to constitute social support. It is the training or experience that is necessary for the social support to be effective"