PIP, DLA and AA
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Petition to abolish the current Pip and ESA method of Assessment which isn't fit for purpose

Survivorgirl58Survivorgirl58 Member Posts: 6 Listener
I have Started a petition on
Change. Org.UK
Link to
http://chng.it/v76rwLSH

This petition is to abolish the current  Lima tick boxing yes/no method questions to of assessment, which doesn't take into account  or recognise those that are suffering with long term fluctuating debilitating often incurable illnesses./Conditions Like Ms, ME, fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue, Mental health and conditions and many more. 

Targeting the vulnerable and those not able to cope with the system and denying the very people that need the support. 

Long term recipients have been set upto fail!! 

The DWP Atos and Capita are lying in their reports to cut benefits, causing suffering to thousands which is having an adverse effect on people's mental health and wellbeing and this has to stop!!. 
And causing financial difficulties. 

People with invisible illnesses are being targeted its totally unacceptable! 

They are responsible for over 120 thousand deaths we have to fight back to change this. 

The British Government are failing the most vulnerable in SOCIETY! 
We are being demoralised, degraded and ignored. 

So please sign this petition and share with family and friends on social media. 

I need to get at least 100 thousand signatures so please also, if you have any further had a bad experience please write your experiences with Atos /Capita 
I will keep you updated 
Many thanks 
Surviour girl



Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,293 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello, and welcome, having had two PIP assessments and found both honest and fair the form filling question's where easy to understand and the assessment process for the first assessment cased some anxiety but I received the correct award for my abilities and then disability. Having to inform DWP of change of circumstances and a second assessment and my award improved as expected due to my change I feel as I am sure most who receive an award are happy with their out come. It's seems that those who aren't awarded anything because they are not entitled and take it to a tribunal hearing or send in insufficient evidence to support their application for PIP that we hear and read about the negatives. Remember PIP is about yours, mine and others abilities to do the PIP descriptors in a safe, repeatable and timely manner. 
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    wilko said:
    Hello, and welcome, having had two PIP assessments and found both honest and fair the form filling question's where easy to understand and the assessment process for the first assessment cased some anxiety but I received the correct award for my abilities and then disability. Having to inform DWP of change of circumstances and a second assessment and my award improved as expected due to my change I feel as I am sure most who receive an award are happy with their out come. It's seems that those who aren't awarded anything because they are not entitled and take it to a tribunal hearing or send in insufficient evidence to support their application for PIP that we hear and read about the negatives. Remember PIP is about yours, mine and others abilities to do the PIP descriptors in a safe, repeatable and timely manner. 
    Hello wilko you put this down t's seems that those who aren't awarded anything because they are not entitled and take it to a tribunal hearing or send in insufficient evidence to support their application for PIP that we hear and read about well is it ok for them to do a mental health assessment and go no problems as can read a road sign and not read the letters from my doctor or the mental health team and the rest of evidence about my abilities and then disability but we are not allowed to say that the assessments full of lies as to seeing you for your assessment and putting something diffrent down on there report than you told them and they still get away with this with know come back at all on them how is this right we have to put up with all this and there just sat there doing as many reports as they can in a day.
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    Here’s a little suggestion why not have somebody like your gp or specialist at hospital determine these things or at least do the the reports people that actually know and have a bit more experience what you are going through. These people are professional and have standards so I wouldn’t imagine they had any reason to under or over exaggerate how bad somebody’s condition(s) are.  
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    Here’s a little suggestion why not have somebody like your gp or specialist at hospital determine these things or at least do the the reports people that actually know and have a bit more experience what you are going through. These people are professional and have standards so I wouldn’t imagine they had any reason to under or over exaggerate how bad somebody’s condition(s) are.  
    I currently have to wait to get a GP appointment.

    The system for PIP isn't ideal, but I'd rather have my GP treating patients, not doing paperwork for DWP...
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Here’s a little suggestion why not have somebody like your gp or specialist at hospital determine these things or at least do the the reports people that actually know and have a bit more experience what you are going through. These people are professional and have standards so I wouldn’t imagine they had any reason to under or over exaggerate how bad somebody’s condition(s) are.  
    A GP assessing people for a benefits claim isn't really ideal and rather wishful thinking. They don't know anything about the benefit system and it's not their job to know. If GPs assessed people then we'd most likely see everyone's claim being successful. Naturally that would please everyone but life is never and have never been that simple.

    I currently have a waiting time of approximately 3 weeks to see my GP and i certainly wouldn't want to wait any longer. The very reason why GP's often refuse to write a supporting letter for benefit claims is because they just don't have the time. Besides, they only ever know the basics of most patients conditions.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    You make the point of if gp wrote assessments everyone would get it, why because they are honest? Notice I didn’t just say gp? The suggestion is professionals who know more about the conditions not some random you spend an hour with who fills in false answers to the questions you are asked, here’s an example client states only drives an automatic car as he finds it easier on his joints, reality never driven an automatic in my life and now only drive when I really need to and my ra isn’t in any of my lower joints. Little things like this go along way in the world of assessments and decision making 
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    Read the whole thread cat lover
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    I clearly said that they nothing to gain from under/ over exaggerating and you have made that point by saying the specialist contradicts what lying claimants say. I rest my case, your honour
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    Dr’s and specialist consultants 
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    Why why would they lie, it would fall below the duty of care for their patients 
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    Did you read the lie about what kind of car I drive? That was Atos assessor who told me she was a nurse, I do like a good back and forth and I only put a suggestion out there 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    As a community champion here on scope i will remind you to please be mindful with your comments. Thank you.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    And I wasn’t being hostile 
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    Which comments? 
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    She lied I’ve never driven automatic in my life 
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    It’s in this thread
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    That assessors do tell lies needless lies 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Regardless of any lies told in any report that's not what you should be concentrating on whether you're claiming ESA or PIP. DWP or the Tribunal won't be interested in any of those.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • fatherinpainfatherinpain Member Posts: 177 Courageous
    Please read the whole thread and it’ll all make sense 
  • KG100KG100 Member Posts: 178 Pioneering
    It's the same old story of "if the assessor agrees with us then they did a good job and we're happy"
    "If the assessor disagrees with us then we're unhappy and they did a terrible job"
    This even goes back to the old DLA days, it's just that I think the new descriptors are a lot tougher now.
    Lets face it a lot of us never had medicals or face to face interviews for DLA. 
    If we did we might have failed them !!
  • KG100KG100 Member Posts: 178 Pioneering
    And I'm sober !!
  • bigglesworthbigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    The assessments should only be needed where no evidence from professionals/specialists is provided. Why pay a HCP to pad out the process when that money could be going to the claimants who need it. It should not be the case that a report of difficulties provided by a specialist can be overruled by an assessor in a completely different field.

    A professional/specialist will likely have history with a claimant and will know a great deal more than an assessor can guess at with 15 minutes reading time for evidence (especially with complex conditions where there may be hundreds of pages of evidence) and then a 40 minute interview in an isolated environment with no proper record of what was said.

    It's true that a HCP has nothing to gain from lying on a report. At the same time they likely get a lot less stress if instead of spending an hour putting together an accurate report, they instead spend 5 minutes duplicating the report from the previous claimant and then just edit a couple of words.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    I have Started a petition on
    Change. Org.UK
    Link to
    http://chng.it/v76rwLSH

    This petition is to abolish the current  Lima tick boxing yes/no method questions to of assessment, which doesn't take into account  or recognise those that are suffering with long term fluctuating debilitating often incurable illnesses./Conditions Like Ms, ME, fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue, Mental health and conditions and many more. 

    Targeting the vulnerable and those not able to cope with the system and denying the very people that need the support. 

    Long term recipients have been set upto fail!! 

    The DWP Atos and Capita are lying in their reports to cut benefits, causing suffering to thousands which is having an adverse effect on people's mental health and wellbeing and this has to stop!!. 
    And causing financial difficulties. 

    People with invisible illnesses are being targeted its totally unacceptable! 

    They are responsible for over 120 thousand deaths we have to fight back to change this. 

    The British Government are failing the most vulnerable in SOCIETY! 
    We are being demoralised, degraded and ignored. 

    So please sign this petition and share with family and friends on social media. 

    I need to get at least 100 thousand signatures so please also, if you have any further had a bad experience please write your experiences with Atos /Capita 
    I will keep you updated 
    Many thanks 
    Surviour girl



    I admire the drive but how would you assess people instead? It's all very well saying get rid of it but what should it be replaced with? If you could post the link to where you got the information about the 120 thousand deaths associated to PIP. I'd be very interested to read that. 
    Hi ilovecats i see you put how would you assess people instead well there is one thing how about going back to the DWP doing the assessments them self like in the past and stop paying Atos and Capita as Atos don't have a good track recored after having to stop and this is from Atos so you can see top job there doing and that was in london so now we end up with them north and north west. 

    It’s clear that Atos has no regret about washing its hands of this contract. The company was recently advised by a PR firm that it had extremely high brand recognition for all the wrong reasons. The company’s senior vice-president, Lisa Coleman, was asked during a select committee hearing a few months ago: “If you knew then what you know now, would you have bid for the contract in the first place?” She replied: “Quite honestly [...] probably not.” The rest of her answer indicated that the primary reason that Atos quit the contract and then there is this  quitting its five-year £400m contract early, paying to escape prematurely with a “substantial financial settlement” to the Department for Work and Pensions. (“Atos declared not fit for work,”


  • DuffersMumDuffersMum Member Posts: 119 Pioneering
    stejon said:
    Hello iLovecats. Atos and capita assessors are liars. My mate had a brain hemorrhage and was found in his home unconscious and rushed to hospital had 3 brain operations and the hcp said in her assessment that it was diagnosed by a doctor and that he was sent to hospital and no treatment was needed. Is that not a lie?. And that's just one of the lies they have told. And these nurses work for the NHS, would you want a scumbag like this treating you or your family in hospital?.
    I agree, some of them do lie, my report was full of lies and inaccuracies and it was quite clear from the first moment that her main concern was getting me out of her assessment room ASAP, I was in there 30 minutes at the most..my husband’s assessment (carried out at home) was the complete opposite...all comes down to who you get assessing you...
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    stejon said:
    You carry on believing that. If you was an assessor you  should know what goes on. And that's something I wouldn't  brag about.  You won't be popular on disability forums. Bye

    @ilovecats has never hidden the fact that they used to be an assessor here on the forum and scope know this too. We are a friendly community and we welcome everyone.

    As a community champion here on scope, if you don't like someones comments then we have an ignore feature that i'd advise you to use. This way you won't see that person's comments.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    @stejon may i ask where exactly was that stated here on the forum? because i can't actually see anything, unless of course i'm not looking properly. I can't actually see anything bad that was said by ilovecats.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Like i stated in another thread, i've never had any problems, likewise to a lot of a other people.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,456 Disability Gamechanger
    @stejon please be mindful of your comments towards other members of the community.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    As my friend @Ami2301 has advised, please be mindful of your comments here.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Ami2301Ami2301 Community Co-Production Group Posts: 7,456 Disability Gamechanger
    Being disrespectful to @poppy123456. And now saying members on here work for the Government and brainwashing others. Everybody has the right to share their opinion, but please do without disrespecting others.
    Disability Gamechanger - 2019
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 8,049 Disability Gamechanger
    @stejon - I would suggest you read Scope's guidelines, which say, 'Please make sure your messages respect other users’ views and suggestions, even if you do not agree with them.'
    Scope works to help people; one of the aspects is the benefit system. The responses by ilovecats, & the volunteers, or Community Champions here, are factual. Your responses are anecdotal. Some things are factual to you, but you cannot back up your otherwise very general assumptions.
    Unfortunately some people have a bad experience in claiming benefits, but as has already been said, people often come here as they haven't received an award they expected.
    You might consider that this post may be looked at by another new member. How would that help them when they see contradictory opinions. The one with advice, & considered opinion, or yours with a wild assumption that some people on this forum work for the government & are brainwashing people.
  • chiariedschiarieds Community Co-Production Group Posts: 8,049 Disability Gamechanger
    I would be interested in seeing your evidence that HCPs lie. I feel unfortunately they can report incorrectly, as happened to me personally. If this happens, the way forward is to go for a Mandatory Reconsideration, & rather concentrate on how a person's disability affects, them with an understanding of the descriptors. Discussing 'inaccuracies' in the HCP's report is not the way forward. A complaint can certainly be made to the assessment provider separately.
    Btw I haven't sent you a message twice.
  • DuffersMumDuffersMum Member Posts: 119 Pioneering
    stejon said:
    Yes my mistake it was from another person. Don't  trust anyone on this forum anymore,  they are too passive 
    Must admit I agree with this post....people who have a bad experience are often shouted down by those telling them they had a wonderful experience and your application must have been rubbish etc...my husband has had three assessments, the first was awful and he was turned down, he went to appeal and won easily, just by discrediting the HCA (but told on here that wouldn’t have been the case at all, it was the tribunal said as much)..the second time was ok and it was recommended lower standard rate for both but DWP awarded enhanced mobility after ringing him up...his last assessment was at home and the HCA was very professional and knowledgable...my assessment when transferring over from DLA was a horrible experience and the HCA was only interested in getting me out the room and typing up a complete load of rubbish...I was awarded standard rate for both (down from higher rate DLA mobility), some may say “oh it’s sour grapes because you didn’t get what you wanted” it’s a case of what I think I deserve with the problems that I have, however the HCA commenting on my hip replacements when I’ve not had hip replacements just goes to show she wasn’t listening.

    I also have a close friend, ex nurse, who because a HCA and who left after 2 months in the job because she didn’t like having to be economical with the truth about applicants problems and difficulties...I’d believe her over anyone.

    I don’t post much these days because it does seem that you are not allowed to criticise HCA, DWP or anyone who posts on here who you don’t agree with.

    just my opinion and experiences (to date)
  • bigglesworthbigglesworth Member Posts: 21 Connected
    I managed to get my PIP in the end, but my experience with the DWP showed me that they tend to jump on this "lying" bandwagon too unfortunately.

    At the MR stage, part of my report simply pointed out the corroborating evidence between different professionals at different times and over different periods of time which didn't match up with what the HCP had reported. There was no mention of any lies in my report, only errors that had been reported.

    The DWP response was just that the HCP is right because they have no reason to lie and that my supporting professionals simply embellished the information about me.

    It doesn't help that some people are told to make an applications based on their worst day and others not. This basically means that a lot of HCP will write reports based on the information in front of them being "trumped up", which means that anyone who doesn't write their application based on their worst day is going to end up not being assessed fairly.

    The blame for all this lies squarely with whoever designed the application process, not the HCP or the people trying to make use of the system. Maybe one day there will be a politician with a healthcare background who ends up in a healthcare position in government (instead of them being things like ex-journalists).
  • JulessarahthompsonJulessarahthompson Member Posts: 25 Connected
    I do agree that the assessments are stressful and cause anxiety but I also agree they are there for a reason. My pip report was 100% accurate, the assessor was actually very supportive and actually stopped the assessment midway for a break as the assessor could see I was struggling. I recieved enhanced on both, the assessor suggested 3 years but when I recieved my paperwork I was actually awarded for 4 years 6 months. My pip report is identical to my ESA report and are both factual and accurate to how my conditions affect me. I provided in depth evidence and was honest at my assessment. I do however feel that if anything needs to change it's the waiting times 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Also to point out that filling out a form based on your worst day could potentially lead to benefit fraud.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • Adrian_ScopeAdrian_Scope Testing team Posts: 7,954

    Scope community team

    I've removed and moderated a number of posts on this thread. 

    We're all aware that the benefit system is stressful and experiences will vary but please keep our community guidelines in mind and to talk to other members with respect.
    Senior Community Partner
    Scope

    Your feedback is really important to the development of the online community, so please remember to complete our online community annual survey
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