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PIP claim line said husband can't make a claim on my son's behalf

donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
edited March 2020 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi my son suffers with ADHD AND REAL BAD ANXIETY he’s 17 not able to make his own claim for PIP he did use to get DLA but when it got changed over he lost it my husband did another claim but was turned down again my sons condition is now a lot worse he’s under a lot more health professional now aswell and he’s always had kearning support in school and in collage because of his mental health problems he’s dropped out of collage four mths ago and is now on new medication aswell my husband tried ringing PIP CLAIM LINE for a form but they said my husband couldn’t make the claim on my sons behalf I’ve never known this before is this correct my son is aware obviously of the claim but he won’t talk on the phone and he’s not very good talking to people he doesn’t know that’s why my husband is making the claim can you give me advice on how we go about this please 

Replies

  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @donnap79   Pleased to meet you.

    Thank you for joining and sharing.

    Please may I suggest if you have a support worker or a health worker you have mentioned this.

    Could be helping you and advising you here if not then please advise contact the following mental health charities.

    I used these three who would contact PIP on my behalf.

    Fill in the forms for me with me in attendance.

    Speak on my behalf in any assessments.

    Look at ways to help your son adjust cope and deal with his anxiety .

    Including diet, nutrition, wellbeing health.  Anything such as medications sleep problems with medical professionals.

    Looking at supporting your son in College or future opportunities employment and anything such as training.

    They do take clientele with the additional disabilities and illness as well mental health.

    They might not be in all areas. You can self refer or speak to your GP.

    https://www.richmondfellowship.org.uk.

    https://www.mind.org.uk.

    https://www.rethink.org

    Please if I can help or advise further please let me know.

    Happy to be supportive, compassionate and sensitivity.

    I can advise and give you any relevant health, diet, nutrition information on your sons anxiety.

    If he has not already been advised by the health worker he has .

    Please contact me .

    Please take care.

    @thespiceman
    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    HI and welcome,

    Firstly, the previous 2 PIP claims, did you request the MR then take it to Tribunal for both of those claims? If you didn't then was there any reasons why?

    To constantly start another claim using the same evidence that was previously used will very likely see constant refusals. Requesting the MR and then Tribunal is always the best thing to do when you've had a refusal.

    For starting another claim i'd advise either yourself or your husband to ask to become your son's appointee when you make that call and tell them that your son is unable to use the phone himself. Becoming his appointee will mean that you will be responsible for all of his claim, which will include receiving letters, any benefit payments and reporting changes. Someone will visit you in your home to fill out the appointee forms and for you or your husband to sign and the PIP forms should not be sent out until the appointee process has been fully completed.


    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Oh ok thank you I’ll get my husband to do this as I have health conditions myself so my husband who’s the one who deals with my sons we have 2 sons with ADHD and this one his mental health is bad at the moment we have had to do referrals to other agencies to try and get him support cause the medication isn’t doing anything to help him 
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    My son has a poor diet he always has and the last person we seen did advise him if he started eating properly and sleeping properly that would he a good start to feeling better but as he’s never been a good eater it’s hard everyone else at home eats cooked dinners every day but he’s always been the same 
  • thespicemanthespiceman Member Posts: 6,408 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello @donnap79   Sorry to hear this.

    I would have suggested contacting the mental health charities very informative, supportive.

    After addiction being clean I thought eating right not so .

    So used the wellbeing service local Community Health Unit.

    Earned qualifications through this around diet and nutrition.

    Should be avoiding all Caffeine, Coffee, Tea, Energy drinks, Cola, Chocolate.

    Alcohol .  More you consume the worse the symptoms.

    Also consider whole grains and whole wheat Pasta, Bread, Rice.

    Pulses and Beans, vegetables and fruit.

    Lean Meat, Eggs, Nuts do not take if allergy.

    Yoghurt with added culture calms the stomach and helps the digestion, bowels.

    One suggestion I have to prepare a meal together some thing you and him agree on, I used to do this with my friends.

    Who had similar conditions and any disabilities.  Make it colourful enjoyable simple have ideas.

    Once involved can be effective looking at sensible eating.

    You do not have to use a Oven .  Use a Hob or use a Slow Cooker just make sure that he is aware this is helping him.

    Create a folder for him and he has a part in this to refer to.

    Understand and do know can be hard, had done a lot with many members of our society.

    I would though contact the charities because they can and do help a lot.

    Please take care, best wishes to your son.

    @thespiceman


    Community Champion
    SCOPE Volunteer Award Engaging Communities 2019
    Mental Health advice, guidance and information to all members
    Nutrition, Diet, Wellbeing, Addiction.
    Recipes
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    I think it’s been a yr since my husband done the last claim so I think this will be a fresh one with a lot more evidence and if it does get turned down then I think he will carry it threw to the end my son is currently trying to deal with his anxiety at the moment as he did quit college some months back we are trying to get him back on his feet to be the happy person he use to be with collage etc he copes very well with routine and structure when that’s not in his life it’s like he’s not coping if that makes sense he’s also just split up with his girlfriend which didn’t end good either so we are just trying to get our son back on track without being the moaning parents he thinks we are I just hope later down the line he will see we was doing it for the best for him as we care for him and love him and extremely worried about him at the minute 
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    He’s not the normal 17 yr that cooks with there mum he tends to sit in his room talks to his brother he gets snappy n he has very little patience if I’m honest at the minute he’s feeling down n would rather argue with me than do anything for me or with me at the moment it’s not always been like this we are a very close family he’s one of 5 children n the 3rd oldest so he’s the oldest at home now 
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    The last time he went to see a lady at EMWHS she did try and get him on a training course to help get his life back on track which he was positive with when he spoke to her but since cause the GP didn’t change his medication it’s like he has no drive n he just sits around stressed all the time and myself and husband tell him we aren’t having it we want better for him and try and encourage him in every way but he thinks we are moaning so it’s very hard at the moment to come across like we are helping him and not moaning at him sorry if it sounds like I’m going on 🤦‍♀️
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,236 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello it must be very hard for you and your husband to see the change in your son. As parents we try and do everything we can for our children even though they don't think at times we are 


    I would look closely at the PIP descriptors and see how your son fits against each one before you decide to do a new claim. Where do you think he should have scored points in the last applications

    Is there somebody out of the family home that could connect with your son ? 

  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Sorry to go off topic how does this community chat work cause I know there’s a benefits part n health problems part etc I’m just wondering am I ok to carry on writing as I am cause I dis start talking about the PIP then once I got typing I got totally off topic n about my sons health to be honest I’m glad that I have cause I don’t think I realise how much it does have an impact on our family and now it’s going worse on a daily basis I’m asking is this just about benefits or anything 
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    My son does feel like we are moaning about him to people if we was to get maybe his sister or someone else to talk to him I think it’s cause they are all so close in age there’s only a yr or2 between them you see and the only person he’s actually opened up to was the lady at Emwhs 2 wks ago and he’s seeing her next wk again which is good as he’s willing to work with her service 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,236 Disability Gamechanger
    That's a positive then do you have any input with her maybe you can share your concerns with her so she can support 
  • janer1967janer1967 Member Posts: 9,236 Disability Gamechanger
    You can discuss anything but if you put a new discussion un the right area it is more likely you will get right response 
    When you start new discussion you have the option to select which section you want to post in 
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    my son was in a better place when he was in college and on medication and in such a short space of time it’s like he’s changed he’s gave up college he’s really anxious and angry and we are trying to support him as much as we can without going on all the time but it’s not easy but he is now seeing health professionals and starting to see how he’s changed which is a start so hopefully now we can all get him back on track one step at a time I know it’s not easy but I just want him to be happy and he certainly isn’t tgat at the moment he’finds it hard to explain how he feels anyway and now it’s a lot harder for him and cause he does struggle he’s just worked up all the time n we are a close family and try and support one another as much as we can and we are working with support agencies like I did say before I think I’d definitely get all his previous medical reports and the new ones in the last year or so before I was to even start a new claim when we do make a new claim for PIP at the minute we are trying to get him on the right track to getting back in to collage or a training program which he is willing to give a go which is gd cause since he quit college it’s been the first time he would even consider it and it was a big shock when he did quit college to us as he was doing so well we thought anyway we didn’t realise till then how much he was struggling eith his mental health and in the last 4/5 mths we have noticed it’s bad but we are trying to make him get help and do things to better himself at the moment 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,996 Disability Gamechanger
    Absolutely no need for an appointee in these circumstances unless he’s incapable of handling his own financial affairs for reasons of mental capacity. 

    Your husband rings DWP in the presence of your son and explains the situation. Your son will be asked to then come on the phone briefly to confirm he consents to Dad talking and after that it’s straightforward. Your son will be asked to come on the phone one more time before the end of the call for a further consent. It’s literally second and... that’s it.
  • anistyanisty Member Posts: 171 Pioneering
    Yes, that's right. I think the call handler made a mistake when i called to start the claim for pip, as I AM the appointee for my son (he is DLA transfer) and the call handler still asked me to pass the phone to my son.

    I dont think he understood a word as even i was struggling with her very rapid speech rate and strong regional accent. 

    Anyway i dont know what they said to him and neither does he but all i heard him say at the end was 'yes'

    So your son wont need to say a lot!!
  • anistyanisty Member Posts: 171 Pioneering
    Ps becoming an appointee is a very simple process. Someone from DWP comes to visit you and your son at home.

    We had two visits, one for DLA when my son was 16. They came early in the morning and my son is not a morning person so he just stared at the wall.

    The UC one was very recent. This time, my son was more receptive and he can talk but i dont think he was asked much actually, beyond a few pleasantries. They might have asked him if he was happy for me to be his appointee. I dont know how obvious it is to others than he lacks comprehension as he is good at smiling and nodding and he can talk intelligibly but you cant really have a 'conversation' with him. It breaks down once you get past the 'how are you?' ' stage.

    So my son was there the whole time but it mainly involved the man filling out our details on a form and leaving. 20 mins tops.


    In your case, it could be handy because if you need to progress to tribunal and your son is very anxious, you can do all the talking for him and, if the judge agrees, he doesnt even need to appear at tribunal. You can go in place of him.


    Maybe @poppy123456 can think of some more pros/cons and also add info on whether they usually approve appointees as easily as they did in my case.
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    When my son was on DLA before it got changed over to PIP he had the interview where someone came out an seen him at home with my hus and which he consented for my husband to do on his behalf but a mth or 2 later the claim was turned down by the PIP on grounds they felt he didn’t meet the criteria with needs etc but I think a lot has changed since but would he need to go threw the process again of getting someone out to see my son and husband again then do you think also does anyone know the ground where I could get a hone visit for an assessment for my son done for the PIP I know they are very strict I was just wondering with his anxiety etc would he fit the criteria 
  • anistyanisty Member Posts: 171 Pioneering
    It's interesting, that. I have just been talking to my husband about this and i think we have to come to the conclusion that maybe our son doesnt look as 'normal' to everyone else as he does to us!

    I was really worried, if he called called for f2f that the assessor would  struggle to find anything wrong. But i am kidding myself. It probably is obvious within minutes.

    I dont know what the criteria are for home visits. I would think a gp letter could help if your gp will support that.

    Have you discovered benefits and work site?  You can have a look at some stuff on there free of charge. But if you join up (which costs about 20 quid) you can instantly download ALL their amazing guides which show you exactly how to fill out your application form well.

    I hadnt discovered the site til after i submitted my son's form but he still has avoided f2f (still waiting for result though)

    A good detailed form seems to help avoid f2f. With medical evidencd to support the claim of course
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Ok thank you I thought they always done a face to face 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Looking back at my advice about being an appointee here, was a little hasty, i agree @mikehughescq

    @donnap79 if your son is lacking mental capacity then yes i'd advise for either yourself or your partner to become his appointee, otherwise no.

    Home assessments aren't guaranteed but there's no harm in requesting this on the form. A letter from his GP maybe needed stating the reasons why he can't attend the assessment centre. If he attends other appointments then that could go against him.

    Some people are offered home assessments without even asking, it just depends on the individual person.

    Yes paper based assessments are possible but they are rare and most people have face to face assessments.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • anistyanisty Member Posts: 171 Pioneering
    donnap79 said:
    Ok thank you I thought they always done a face to face 


    I believe it is rare not to have one though if they can get enough info off the application form, they can do a 'paper based' assessment.

    That is what happened for my son (though pip can be refused on this paper based assessment as well as awarded and we havent got the result yet)
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Oh ok thank you for all this information it is helpful knowing other people are experiencing the same sort of thing it’s so helpful 
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    Yh my son has always gone to appointments and everything but since he’s quit college and gone form hill it’s been so hard to get him to engage in anything so the well being team are aware of all this aswell 
  • anistyanisty Member Posts: 171 Pioneering
    Maybe a support letter from the well being team could support a home visit then?

    I do know of a local lad that got awarded enhanced rate both parts for social anxiety. He is a young adult and not sure of the exact circumstances but I know he is unable to leave his house at all. Last time i met his mum, he hadnt been outdoors for months.

    I really hope your lad can be helped by the well being team and he can be helped to manage his anxiety and live a life.

    It's very sad what has happened to this young man. Its good he got his pip award no bother but that's the only good thing to happen really.

    Im sure his family would rather see him off pip and living again. 

    Maybe, if you arent successful in getting the home visit though, try to think positive and support your son to get to the appt (maybe someone from the well being team could engage him; teens are often more challenging for parents)

    Sometimes i think it is important to try to get out if at all possible and if he can leave the house at all, that is something to keep going with so his world doesnt become smaller and smaller as it did for the young man i mentioned above.

    All the very best and keep up posted!


  • bekindalwaysbekindalways Posts: 79 Member
    Hello Donnap79

    My situation is not dissimilar.  I requested that the DWP allow my husband to be an appointee and it was forgotten about. Whilst I am able to talk on here I have no other social media...I am also a member of benefits and work.

    Everytime my husband contacted the DWP he was told they had to speak to me for security questions.  I couldn't and have never been able to do that since my 2017 first claim which I was so very embarrassed to do.

    After countless calls,  they placed my husband as my representative not an appointee.

    He can  now discuss any aspect of my change of circumstances with the DWP and anything whatsoever regarding my case. In fact recently having been given an increased award from 11 points daily living and 10 points mobility that change of circumstances that seem to be frowned on on many sites including this one... I was awarded 18 points daily living and 22 points mobility. And that was from an assessment that said throughout the assessors report that "I had a good insight into my illnesses" 

    Because my husband is now classed as my 'representative" and not an appointee, I still have that freedom to choose. He receives copies of any letters I receive, so we in fact receive duplicates,

    As for your son, and I am so very sorry to hear of his own anxieties.,,,,  try to put in place the things that I have arranged with the DWP. They do help where they can and have organised a way to deal with things solely through my husband.

    You will also be ok to write his application on his behalf and sign as such if you are his representative,

    The problem arises when you may have to go to tribunal and unless his illnesses are so severe that he cannot attend, it is in his best interests to attend.

    Please also look at the benefits and work website, trust me when I say it is money well worth spent to understand the descriptors.

    I sincerely hope you can sort out a method of communication with the DWP and that ultimately, your son gets the help that he needs.  
    My best wishes and kind thoughts to you, your son and your hubby.

    Xxxx  
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,996 Disability Gamechanger
    B&W is excellent but there’s no need to spend money in order to understand the descriptors. Their page listing them is free to view and https://pipinfo.net/ works just as well.
  • donnap79donnap79 Member Posts: 36 Listener
    When my husband rang. Up for the form they said cause my son is over 16 my son needed to be with my husband when he made the phone call to go threw security for him to be able to make the claim for them to send out the form as he was making a new claim as it’s been over a yr since he done the last one and it was turned down so this is a fresh claim they wouldn’t even let my husband give any details or anything I’m not sure if this is new but I’ve never known them to do this before 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,996 Disability Gamechanger
    See my post on the 7th of March above. It’s nothing new and easily surmountable.
  • Alice_HoltAlice_Holt Member Posts: 46 Courageous
    edited March 2020
    B&W is excellent but there’s no need to spend money in order to understand the descriptors. Their page listing them is free to view and https://pipinfo.net/ works just as well.
       And this also is useful:    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/831253/PIP-assessment-guide-part-2-the_assessment-criteria.pdf
       on how the descriptors should be interpreted.

    B&W has some very good guides on completing the forms, and appealing a decision.  Very helpful if claimants can't assess help from a advice agency.
    These (IMO) are well worth the c.£20 annual membership fee.
  • bekindalwaysbekindalways Posts: 79 Member
    @Alice_Holt I fully agree. My first claim went to appeal because I didn't have the facts etc.  I won but it was the worst few months of my life during that time.  The £16 was well spent and I will continue to pay it despite my award not running out till Jan 2026.  They offer great options for worried claimants and considering there are only 3 of them, they do a fantastic job of helping others, me included.

    @mikehughescq You may be right with the fees, for me and others who do pay it, trust me I have received my fees back over and over with the advice they gave about my tribunal in spring of 2018.  Their member only guides are not only thorough but they are in depth and accurate.  I succeeded in my recent change of circumstances because I has them to help me.  £20 is small change (sorry, 20% off most of the time) when you consider the difference between being well informed as a claimant and succeeding with a claim or getting nothing because of the countless numbers of differing 'advice' being given by individuals on various websites, then I know what I will choose everytime.  

    Btw I think your input is amazing on here. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,996 Disability Gamechanger
    I’ve no doubt the B&W guides are good as I’m a member via my employer but the basics of form filling are covered equally well elsewhere on the internet at a cost of precisely zilch and the basics really are very basic indeed. One example I put together at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/56365/pip-form-filling#latest.

    More importantly it’s okay recommending paid guides to people in employment with a decent wage but I’m not sure in all conscience it’s the best option for people on benefits who are on a fixed income when benefits have been frozen for four years and whose disability benefits are mostly not used in connection with a disability but to supplement basic benefit rates which have long since fallen below what we might define as the poverty line. 

    However, I must also disagree politely but completely at the suggestion that DWP guidance is a useful resource for interpreting the descriptors and certainly not how they “should” be interpreted. They are the DWP interpretation. They are frequently challenged. Just as frequently they are wrong and have no relationship to the wording of the descriptors at all. There’s a rapidly growing body of case law on exactly this point. They are not the place to start at all. 
  • anistyanisty Member Posts: 171 Pioneering
    Your link there is really good @mikehughescq and my recent experience of applying for pip by just answering the questions on the form without reference to any guides can work as well, it seems as even where i completely missed the point of the descriptors, the assessor seems to have been able to work out what help my son needed and even award points on questions where i had claimed none. But maybe we were very fortunate there.

    For anyone that can afford it, Benefits and Work is WELL worth joining. Their guides are so thorough (the pip one is 93 pages long) and, for the one payment, you get all their other guides too on esa, uc, going to tribunal. Full lot.

    Plus you cannot post on their forum unless you join. And i think their forum does offer something slightly different from this one as it is a delay before your post appears whilst they moderate all posts so it is a very advice based forum, with a more question and answer format.

    By buying the guides, too, it must help them keep the forum going which is a good thing.

    Both forums are brilliant and have both helped me. The links to the free resources are great but there is something very thorough and comprehensive about the b&w ones that give them that edge, that is what i think anyway


  • bekindalwaysbekindalways Posts: 79 Member
    @MikeBroderick i never once said that the dwp descriptors were a useful resource....
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