Pip appeal. What's required for the 4 points for planning a journey?

Ruby123

Hi I have appealed my decision, I get enhanced daily care mostly for promoting and standard mobility walking. I got nothing for planning a journey so I have appealed for 4 points (planning a journey) I have depression anxiety and ptsd. I have told them I need prompting to get out of the house and my husband and daughter have wrote letters to confirm. I have ptsd high scores and on anxiety meds and highest depression meds. Evidence sent.  I am having trauma Councelling which I have told them. I have sent this evidence in and awaiting appeal, I just don’t know wether to withdraw as I don’t know what other evidence I could add also I do not want to do a full new claim after appeal as this is so daunting. Can anyone advise about what is required for the 4 points for planning a journey please? 

Alex_Alumni

Hello @Ruby123 thanks for reaching out today, are you talking about Mandatory Reconsideration for PIP, or a Tribunal?

calcotti

Ruby123 said:..I do not want to do a full new claim after appeal as this is so daunting. 

You wouldn't need to. Your award following the appeal will be whatever the tribunal decides. There will be no requirement to make a new claim.

You can read the PIP descriptors with point scoring here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046238/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

Descriptor B, which goes 4 points, is "Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant".

"Overwhelming psychological distress" is a fairly high threshold. see the paragraph which says PPD is "distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment resulting in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person cannot undertake a journey without being overwhelmed. The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who, without prompting, would be left feeling anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it. OPD may occur in conditions such as generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, dementia or agoraphobia."

Ruby123

calcotti said:

Ruby123 said:..I do not want to do a full new claim after appeal as this is so daunting. 

You wouldn't need to. Your award following the appeal will be whatever the tribunal decides. There will be no requirement to make a new claim.

You can read the PIP descriptors with pint scoring here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046238/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

I have been informed that after an appeal when your award is due next you will have to make a new claim as it was the tribunal who awarded it to you. 

calcotti

Ruby123 said:

calcotti said:

Ruby123 said:..I do not want to do a full new claim after appeal as this is so daunting. 

You wouldn't need to. Your award following the appeal will be whatever the tribunal decides. There will be no requirement to make a new claim.

You can read the PIP descriptors with pint scoring here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046238/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

I have been informed that after an appeal when your award is due next you will have to make a new claim as it was the tribunal who awarded it to you. 

Oh I see what you mean, I read it as you thinking you would have to make a new claim shortly after the tribunal. What you have said is correct. However it is generally advised to treat a renewal in the same way as a new claim in terms of the information provided so I don't really see that it makes any difference.

poppy123456

Ruby123 said:

calcotti said:

Ruby123 said:..I do not want to do a full new claim after appeal as this is so daunting. 

You wouldn't need to. Your award following the appeal will be whatever the tribunal decides. There will be no requirement to make a new claim.

You can read the PIP descriptors with pint scoring here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046238/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

I have been informed that after an appeal when your award is due next you will have to make a new claim as it was the tribunal who awarded it to you. 

Indeed but it's no different to a review. The only difference is the form they send you. Regardless of which form, you should always treat all claims as a new claim. Another assessment is also likely regardless of whether it's a review or a new claim because most people have them.

Ruby123

Thank you. Can anyone help regarding the evidence and what I need for the 4 points for planning a journey. I feel I have sent all what I have and don’t know what else I need. If I have been given enhanced daily for mostly prompting how come they have dismissed this for mental health. Doesn’t make sense to me. 

poppy123456

The daily living activities are different to the mobility activities. Scoring points for the daily living doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to score points for following and planning a journey.

Activity 2B  (4 points): Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant.

Please take note of what calcotti said here..

calcotti said:

Ruby123 said:..I do not want to do a full new claim after appeal as this is so daunting. 

"Overwhelming psychological distress" is a fairly high threshold. see the paragraph which says PPD is "distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment resulting in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person cannot undertake a journey without being overwhelmed. The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who, without prompting, would be left feeling anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it. OPD may occur in conditions such as generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, dementia or agoraphobia."

What's the reason you need prompting for this activity?

Ruby123

poppy123456 said:

The daily living activities are different to the mobility activities. Scoring points for the daily living doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to score points for following and planning a journey.

Activity 2B  (4 points): Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant.

Please take note of what calcotti said here..

calcotti said:

Ruby123 said:..I do not want to do a full new claim after appeal as this is so daunting. 

"Overwhelming psychological distress" is a fairly high threshold. see the paragraph which says PPD is "distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment resulting in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person cannot undertake a journey without being overwhelmed. The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who, without prompting, would be left feeling anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it. OPD may occur in conditions such as generalised anxiety disorder, panic disorder, dementia or agoraphobia."

What's the reason you need prompting for this activity?

I have severe anxiety depression and ptsd I struggle with going out alone due to ptsd. I get anxious, shortness of breath chest pain nausea etc. I would cancel appointments if my husband could not take me as this would be too much for me. 

poppy123456

If you went alone what exactly would happen? This is what you need to explain. Giving a couple of real world incidents of exactly what happened the last time you attempted that activity. Include information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

Overwhelming psychological distress would need to apply the majority of the time for you to score points in this descriptor.

I'd advise you to get some expert advice. Start here. https://advicelocal.uk/