Mental illness and what you can/can't do

leeCal

Have a lovely time @janer1967!

bluefox

Is a taxi driver classed as someone accompanying you?

poppy123456

sierrafox said:

I got told by benefits and work that it’s based on the week. I’m sure someone said that. Like 3/7 days and so on.

That's not correct. The majority of the time is not 3/7 days and it's not based on just 1 week.

poppy123456

OverlyAnxious said:

poppy123456 said:

OverlyAnxious said:

Personally, I haven't been able to go on 'holiday' for 15 years.  Can't travel, can't manage strange places, can't eat out, haven't stayed anywhere away from home since then...but I don't fit the criteria for planning & following journeys...

If you're unable to undertake any journey the majority of time due to overwhelming psychological distress then you should score points for activity 1E. Which would be standard mobility.

I know the thread has moved on since this post.  But I'm still struggling to understand what constitutes a 'journey' for the DWP?  Is it simply leaving the front door?  Is it a set distance/time?  Or is it a 'meaningful' journey, such as getting to a supermarket or doctors surgery?

I have not been able to drive since September last year.  I cannot use any other form of transport.  This means I have not been more than about half a mile from home in the last 12 months.  On foot, and alone only.

A few months ago I could walk around the block (half a mile or so) as long as there were no other people about.  But if there's someone in my carpark, I can't even open the door.  This heat causes so much dizziness and exacerbates nausea & IBS that can't get out at all at for about 3 months of the year.  But I don't think heat is taken into consideration, only 'anxiety' symptoms.

I'm still left not knowing whether that qualifies or not.  And not to sound ungrateful, but I couldn't use the money from the standard award (can't use taxis etc), the thing that would have really helped me is access to the Motability scheme.

I think i remember trying to help you for your current PIP claim. Your conditions were simialar back then, though probably worse now going by what i've seen you write here.

Do you have a physical condition or is it anxiety that causes you not to be able to go out at all?

If it's anxiety and you can't undertake any journey because of overwhelming psychological distress then 1E would apply, which is standard mobility.

I know you said you couldn't use the money for taxi's but there's no rules on what you can and can't spend your money on. So you can use it for something else.

bluefox

poppy123456 said:

sierrafox said:

I got told by benefits and work that it’s based on the week. I’m sure someone said that. Like 3/7 days and so on.

That's not correct. The majority of the time is not 3/7 days and it's not based on just 1 week.

I don’t remember telling them my condition fluctuates. Does it have to be accurate to the medical report I asked for? Mine is missing parts that I mentioned!

also is a taxi driver an accompanying person?

poppy123456

No, the report doesn't have to contain everything you told them. It's their opinion based on everything you sent and well as what you said during the assessment.

sierrafox said:

also is a taxi driver an accompanying person?

No they are not. What exactly are you trying to acheive with all these questions? There's really no more information to give other than to repeat what's already been said.

bluefox

I’ve heard stories where PIP have tried to say a taxi is classed as public transport (which it is) but it’s door to door. So different than say a bus or a train. 

Questions are just to understand PIP more for future. 

poppy123456

janer1967 said:

I am actually away now on the ferry to isle of Wight

Hope you have a lovely time.

OverlyAnxious

poppy123456 said:

OverlyAnxious said:

poppy123456 said:

OverlyAnxious said:

Personally, I haven't been able to go on 'holiday' for 15 years.  Can't travel, can't manage strange places, can't eat out, haven't stayed anywhere away from home since then...but I don't fit the criteria for planning & following journeys...

If you're unable to undertake any journey the majority of time due to overwhelming psychological distress then you should score points for activity 1E. Which would be standard mobility.

I know the thread has moved on since this post.  But I'm still struggling to understand what constitutes a 'journey' for the DWP?  Is it simply leaving the front door?  Is it a set distance/time?  Or is it a 'meaningful' journey, such as getting to a supermarket or doctors surgery?

I have not been able to drive since September last year.  I cannot use any other form of transport.  This means I have not been more than about half a mile from home in the last 12 months.  On foot, and alone only.

A few months ago I could walk around the block (half a mile or so) as long as there were no other people about.  But if there's someone in my carpark, I can't even open the door.  This heat causes so much dizziness and exacerbates nausea & IBS that can't get out at all at for about 3 months of the year.  But I don't think heat is taken into consideration, only 'anxiety' symptoms.

I'm still left not knowing whether that qualifies or not.  And not to sound ungrateful, but I couldn't use the money from the standard award (can't use taxis etc), the thing that would have really helped me is access to the Motability scheme.

I think i remember trying to help you for your current PIP claim. Your conditions were simialar back then, though probably worse now going by what i've seen you write here.

Do you have a physical condition or is it anxiety that causes you not to be able to go out at all?

If it's anxiety and you can't undertake any journey because of overwhelming psychological distress then 1E would apply, which is standard mobility.

I know you said you couldn't use the money for taxi's but there's no rules on what you can and can't spend your money on. So you can use it for something else.

Yes, you did.   I got this all horribly wrong when I did my first forms and F2F for PIP back in 2018/19.  It was only after that (and the subsequent 0 points!) that I joined this site and learnt about the descriptors etc.

Back then, I could still drive to the local supermarket, a local park/wildlife area and my Nan's once a week each place.  There was no way I could go on holiday, stay out for more than about an hour, or even leave my own county, but I could get by.   Interestingly, that's 3 days out of 7...so technically less than the majority of the time.  Anyway, I quickly realised I would not fit any of the Mobility descriptors so gave up on that and focussed on the Daily Living descriptors instead.  Part of my initial reason for applying for PIP was access to the Motability scheme.  Having a more suitable, reliable vehicle would have helped at least 'maintain' the amount I could go out, with the hope that it would increase my times & distances over time.  But the descriptors seemed dead set against that.  I was awarded enhanced Daily Living, when I was only expecting standard if you remember, but by then we we were in lockdown, which really finished off my ability to keep getting out against anxiety & agoraphobia.

So fast forward to last year when I put the review forms in.  I was unable to shop or visit my Nan by that point, but I could still drive to the local park once a week (definitely less than the majority of the time!) however I was regularly finding that I couldn't walk away from the car once I'd arrived due to dizziness and lack of balance, and at the time could not work out whether it was caused by heat or anxiety...  I could also walk around the block occasionally.  Based on that, I don't expect to be awarded any Mobility points this time either.

I was considering putting further evidence in to explain that now I can't drive at all, but walking distances are variable depending on the weather and the amount of people about, as well as my own variable conditions.  I don't know how to write that without contradicting myself...and I don't want to add the 'possibility of improvement' which would give them grounds for another short award this time.  I really don't want to have to go through all this again in 18 months time!

It's physical conditions that stop me getting out...uncontrollable IBS, dizziness, nausea, lack of balance, fuzzy vision/headaches and general fatigue/lethargy...but I don't have any diagnosed physical conditions...largely because I can't get to the hospital for diagnosis!    So it's all just assumed to be anxiety related by the GP, who I can only contact either via text, or through a relative, so they also have very little idea of my reality.  I cannot see any medical professionals of course.

I know there's no rule on what money can be used for.  But I'm effectively housebound, in a small flat with very limited storage space, no garden, can't drive, can't really eat, can't focus on movies/magazine subscriptions...so I'm not sure what people expect me to be able to spend 'extra' money on!! 

When I first applied for PIP I did so for three reasons.  Firstly access to Motability as mentioned above.  Quickly realised I had no chance at that because of the strange way they decide the anxiety related descriptors.  Secondly access to the one-bedroom rate of housing benefit, as I cannot live in shared accommodation due to my conditions (social issues and contamination OCD etc) and had been using much of my ESA to cover the shortfall in rent.  Again this is a daft system, I had to be awarded PIP for access to the 1-Bed rate, despite already being on ESA for long term health issues!  This one did at least work out though, I got the extra rent covered...one in three isn't bad I guess lol.  The third reason was to pay for private treatment for mental health and dental, amongst other things.  But once I had the income, I realised the lack of funds was not the only problem...the services I need either don't exist at all, or they cannot put enough adjustments in place to make it possible for me to access the diagnosis & treatment.  So as you can see, money hasn't really been much help to me and I can't use any 'extra' in my position.  I'd like to hope I'm in a fairly unique situation with this, though I do know others with agoraphobia & OCD who were unable to meet the Mobility descriptors.

Sorry, I know that's gone quite far off topic, but from what I've read, the OP has similar sorts of issues at least!

OverlyAnxious

leeCal said:

@OverlyAnxious According to https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/pdfs/pipinfo/Activity_11_PIP_guidance_extract_Sept_2016.pdf
’Journey means a local journey, whether familiar or unfamiliar.’

Thanks Lee.  I'm still not seeing a specific meaning for the word 'journey' though.  Not all of us have work, or shops or a school run to attempt regularly.  Is walking to the postbox (approx 0.1 miles away) classed as a journey?  Of course, I don't have things to post every day, so don't regularly attempt that though. 

I'm just very mindful of getting awarded 1E and then being 'spotted' outside in my local area.  I can't cope with the stress of being investigated so would rather err on the side of caution there.

bluefox

You’re right. I have similar issues though mine are related to fear of having seizures, so I end up in a panic state especially when I’m on my own. Take for example the other day I did a trip at 10pm at night and my partner and I had an argument. He wanted to leave me in the middle of a town and let me make my own way back with 3 bags. I point blank refused, as this could potentially put me into a panic or a fit. 

My CBT therapist was awful. She would say you’re going to wake up, do this this and this then you’re gonna leave the house. She didn’t take into account I struggle to do things alone. So in the end we changed leaving the house to doing yoga. 

bluefox

I thought poppy said you could make journeys outside of your local area as it’s not the majority of days?

bluefox

Someone put me straight for the last time. 

If you score under 1E but can’t also satisfy 1F. So

Let’s say in a week you make one journey outside of your local area to let’s say Ashton to Bolton and it’s accompanied to reduce fear. And then come back a few days later. 

Is that classed as breaking the mobility rules? 

OverlyAnxious

sierrafox said:

I thought poppy said you could make journeys outside of your local area as it’s not the majority of days?

Not sure why my post appeared twice.  But yes, this ambiguity is the problem.  No-one seems to know exactly how they work out 'the majority of days' or indeed what a 'journey' is.  Going by that logic, you could be totally housebound for 7 months of the year, and spend the next 5 months travelling the world.  Obviously that's an exaggerated scenario but it highlights the issue with the vague descriptors.

For me, a large part of this is not just about what you're 'technically' allowed to do...it's about what would be grounds for investigation.  I'd rather not have any Mobility award at all if there's a chance I could be investigated for being spotted/reported outside my home.  

Tori_Scope

Apologies @OverlyAnxious- it was because of a glitch with the spam filter. I've removed the duplicate now  

leeCal

According to the Oxford English Dictionary a journey is ‘an act of travelling from one place to another’ I think any reasonable person would agree with that definition. Here is an American legal definition ; 
https://thelawdictionary.org/journey/

This is what I’d say a journey is too, so travelling from your abode to a post box or local store would be a journey, likewise longer trips would be journeys as well.

Although I didn’t get awarded points for mobility I did actually state that I have severe problems when it comes to journeys. Nevertheless I do attempt one every now and then as I feel I must, both accompanied and unaccompanied. It wouldn’t do to become too paranoid about these things imo. 

bluefox

OverlyAnxious said:

sierrafox said:

I thought poppy said you could make journeys outside of your local area as it’s not the majority of days?

Not sure why my post appeared twice.  But yes, this ambiguity is the problem.  No-one seems to know exactly how they work out 'the majority of days' or indeed what a 'journey' is.  Going by that logic, you could be totally housebound for 7 months of the year, and spend the next 5 months travelling the world.  Obviously that's an exaggerated scenario but it highlights the issue with the vague descriptors.

For me, a large part of this is not just about what you're 'technically' allowed to do...it's about what would be grounds for investigation.  I'd rather not have any Mobility award at all if there's a chance I could be investigated for being spotted/reported outside my home.  

You’ve got me paranoid now lol

poppy123456

sierrafox said:

Someone put me straight for the last time. 

If you score under 1E but can’t also satisfy 1F. So

Let’s say in a week you make one journey outside of your local area to let’s say Ashton to Bolton and it’s accompanied to reduce fear. And then come back a few days later. 

Is that classed as breaking the mobility rules? 

We’ve already covered this many times. One journey is not the majority of the time. There’s really nothing further to add here other than what’s already been said. 

bluefox

What if you do 3-4 journeys a week?

poppy123456

Regardless of where you go, it’s classed as one journey. If you scored points for 1E and you go out say twice a week, this isn’t the majority of the time so it doesn’t affect your claim. 

Anyway there’s really nothing further to add here so I’ll leave it at that now and won’t add anything further.

@OverlyAnxious good luck with your review!