Help with mandatory reconsideration
I have my PIP letter come through i scored really low, and i feel that it has been written for someone else, they do not see to understand my conditions at all (ADHD/Anxiety, Autism, fibromyalgia, dyscalcilar) There are so many things that i disagree with, firstly they stated that I have no diagnosed sensory, cognitive or learning impairments?? They then stated that “You possess a full driving licence, which demonstrates your adequate vision, grip and sufficient flexion in the hips knees and ankles, it also indicates your competency in recognising signs, reading, and hazard awareness” I passed my test 25 years ago, alot has changed since then. They then stated “Evidence shows you have your own bank card and account and that you understand numbers” how is this relevant? there are many more but these are the two that i am struggling to understand the logic, could anyone please give me some advise as these seem irrelevant and misleading.
Thank you in advance 😊
Comments
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Who diagnosed your autism and did they use the "gold standard" ADOS assessment?
Although pip is based on how your disabilities affect you, an official report - either NHS by a clinical psychologist or one you've had done privately which must be done to the same standard - that will go a long way in supporting your claim.
I'm only knowlegeable about autism so i'm not sure on the best proof needed for your other disabilities.
So - assuming you provided good report evidence - the other part is understanding what each descriptor is getting at and describing what stops you being able to complete each descriptor. Highlighting anything in your report that supports that.
Driving uses many skills. If you are saying you could drive well 25yrs ago but a lot's changed since then and now you can't, obvs you need to inform DVLA and get a re test at least.
People with adhd often are unable to drive as their impulsivity causes them to make wrong choices. If you are on medication for adhd which makes you a safe driver then as far as DWP is concerned, your medication means that you are competent at driving and, if you can drive safely, that also means you can cook safely as you are good at foreseeing what could go wrong.
You're not likely to forget you have put a pan on the stove if you can remember to fuel your car (is the DWP view)
Similarly with autism - with autism comes rigid thinking and often an inability to work around something unexpected so if a usual route is closed this can be difficult to deal with for someone with autism.
And difficulties with social interaction could render an autistic person unable to deal with another driver in the event of a minor prang. And of course inability to control meltdowns would render an autistic person unable to drive.
Now - of course many autistic people drive very safely and well - but (dwp would argue) if you can drive alone and cope with all the unpredictibility encountered on an average journey (even the same routes have different hazards) then you can manage many other life skills independently too.
I won't comment on the fibro as i have no knowledge of that condition but i hope this gives an insight into how dwp think.
It is possible to drive and still receive pip but you are going to need to explain how you can do that but not do some of the descriptors - and use your evidence to back up what you say.
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Ps - again if you run your bank account independently that shows good cognition.
DWP will argue if you manage your own money that shows your adhd is not affecting you to a disabling degree (of course if you are thousands of pounds overdrawn and have a house full of impulse buys then tell them!)
Being able to budget requires skills that are transferable to life skills so DWP are using that as evidence you have good cognition so aren't going to award you on a non-physical disability.
My son has autism and a mild learning disability. He was awarded but they made the same comment on his report. He has a joint account with me as he cannot run his own account but he does have a non contactless cash card and is capable of going to a shop himself, buying something and paying with the card.
DWP said he understood money due to that. My son, that same week, was asked to bring all the paper from his room and put it in the recycling bin outside.
Lucky i checked - £80 cash he'd put there inside cards (Christmas gifts) never opened. Told him about it - in his mind it was paper and he didn't need it!!!
That is the logic of the autistic mind sometimes!
But - as far as DWP is concerned - he understands money
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Hi Ansty
Thank you for your reply it is really insightful and informative, I sent detailed letters of my diagnosis for all of my conditions from consultants. In terms of driving, i only drive 2 minutes up the road, which is a road that i have known all my life, i haven't driven anywhere other than that for years, i dont refuel my car, as i forget, my husband does this once a week, the last time i drove was going into Birmingham, i got so overwhelmed and had a massive meltdown in traffic, i abandoned my car on the road and just sat on the side of the road until my husband came and got me.
Although i am on medication for my adhd, i am also perimenopausal which is making my symptoms worse, and the medication not so affective.
I dont manage a bank account, i have a joint one with my husband, i dont have online banking, and my husband keeps my card, because i always forget the pin. Dyscalculia means that i am unable to do basic maths, i have never been able to budget, i am in thousands of pounds of debt, and currently in an IVA.
This was all written in my application, i think im more annoyed that they stated that I have no diagnosed sensory, cognitive or learning impairments.
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It'll be worth putting in an MR and taking this all the way to tribunal. (Not many MRs succeed but you never know)
DWP often use ability to drive as a reason to turn down applications - i forgot to say driving needs many sequential actions to be performed very quickly so that's the logic in saying if you can drive, you can cook a meal, manage your own hygiene, dressing etc (unless there is a physical disability also)
They are saying the cognition required for driving is higher than the cognition needed to manage activities of daily living so, if you can drive, you can basically do everything else.
I have never taken a case to tribunal but lots on here have so you will hopefully get more replies. It might be worth contacting Welfare Rights through your local council to see if they can help you prepare and might represent you at tribunal.
Finally - I don't know if you can take HRT but it might help your per symptoms. I am not a disabled person but had debilitating anxiety for 18 months post meno. It was awful and i couldn't drive at that time as it had affected my eyesight and was causing bad palpitations and light headedness.
3 weeks on HRT - back to my old self! Still on it and hope to be for life. So that might be worth exploring with your GP.
All the best.
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Have you lost your award? Reading your post you need to put in a Mandatory Reconsideration. You need to put down in writing why you should not have lost points, explaining your difficulties with your disabilities per descriptor.
The use of having a driving licence and working is known to reduce points in some cases, but most people on PIP will have a driving licence as many have a motability car and you can work and claim PIP.
I know it will be stressful and a pain to do it, but you need to go for a Mandatory Reconsideration.
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i really cannot understand the fuss about banking.. Unless i am in the darkness. all my bills are on direct debit… baSICALLY once my bank accounT had been opened, I NEVER EVER HAVE TO DO ANYTHING ATL ALL
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OH, DISREAGARD dwp DEcision AND OF COURSE GO TO MANDATORY RECONSIDERATION. DWP job is not to award you a PIP
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(Not many MRs succeed but you never know)
is that on an official statistics?
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Yes.
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When I have written MRs, I have written along these lines ..
Descriptor name
I/Name received X points for this activity. I believe it should have been X points, and then the descriptor, for eg, Needs prompting to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. Then I go on to explain what help is needed, why and any aids used. I link this to any evidence I have sent. If necessary I point out why the assessors opinion is wrong, but best not to dwell on that too much.0 -
To have a bank account which runs itself because someone has helped you to set up direct debits and you never go near it for any other reason is not evidence that you can run a bank account - in your case you could use that as evidence that you can't run a bank account.
Normally, most account holders are able to check balances, order a new card, report a lost or stolen card, report suspicious account transactions, understand what the balance is and how long that money will last them approximately.
My son and the OP cannot do those things and therefore cannot have a bank account in their sole name. This should also be true for you too if you cannot do anything with your bank account. Unless you have a Power of Attorney in place that can speak to the bank and sort out things that crop up from time to time.
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Hi @Booroo - & welcome to the forum. You are correct, & certainly discalculia is recognised as a learning disability. Unfortunately PIP assessors don't know about all disorders (nor would all Drs), so we're left with an assessment in which the assessor chooses what they think applies - they often get it wrong, but, as they can't put things in their own words, we're left with them 'ticking' the descriptor they think most likely appropriate.
Please don't be unduly upset as there are often phrases used that seem to indicate you can't possibly have problems, when obviously you do. The 'being able to drive' is another often wrongly used. This has been refuted here by people who help claimants with their benefit's tribunals: & I think they should know. One said, this 'multi tasking' bit about driving,
''Firstly, it implies doing two or more things competently at once whereas most of what a driver does is arguably sequential even when it’s done so automatically it feels like its multiple things at once. A point nicely made by reference to the Highway Code and the Theory Test.
Secondly, there’s nothing in the PIP regs. or guidance to suggest that an ability to multi-task is suggestive in any way of an ability to perform activities. Indeed, many of the activities explicitly refer to more than one action.''
So, I would politefully disagree with @anisty about driving, & anyway, it's not something that's even mentioned in any of the PIP descriptors, it's just an 'argument' that's wrongly used. Being able to drive doesn't mean you therefore can grip a potato peeler in order to prepare a simple meal, nor anything else!
Nor do you need medical evidence, as PIP is about your functional ability, & if you can 'reliably' do (i.e. safely, to an acceptable standard, repeat as often as would normally be expected, & if it doesn't take you a long time to complete) an activity.
I do agree that it certainly helps to understand the activities/descriptors that are looked at with PIP. The short version is here:
& a better longer read here:
As suggested, you can do a Mandatory Reconsideration, just simply stating in a letter where you think you should have got points & why. Don't even bother mentioning the driving bit, just try & give a couple of recent detailed examples about your struggles with relevance to any applicable descriptor. Do put your name, date of birth & National Insurance number on each page.
As you have fibromyalgia, it's also worth explaining if any activity causes you increased pain or leaves you exhausted afterwards, as, if that's the case, this should be taken into account.
Remember PIP is about how you are the majority of the time, & with fibromyalgia how you are can fluctuate. You should describe all of your days if that is the case.
Please come back with any questions.
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@chiarieds - you have misinterpreted my meaning (handy to know as I didn't realise I had been unclear!)
I specifically did not comment about physical disabilities in my post (gripping potato peelers, and the physical aspects of gripping steering wheels etc is not something i can comment on)
I was merely trying to explain to OP the possible (in my view, likely!) reason that DWP had turned down our OPs claim and brought in a lot of driving stuff as reasons for turning it down.
At no point did i say DWP had made the right decision or that I agreed with what they had done on OPs claim. I was just trying think the DWP way!
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This is a really helpful and well explained post. Thank you for sharing your perspective. It is so important to remember that PIP decisions often miss the real impact of disabilities because they do not fully consider the claimant’s actual difficulties.
I completely agree that the claimant’s lived experience and functional challenges must never be overshadowed by trying to “think like DWP.” Trying to second guess their logic can be risky. It can unintentionally reinforce flawed assumptions, shift focus away from the person’s real struggles, and even lead to poor or disempowering advice.
Posts like yours help bring the focus back to what matters, how someone’s conditions affect them day to day. That is the heart of a fair assessment, and support like this makes a real difference.
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I would like to thank everyone for their advice, i have completed the MR today, so fingers crossed
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