Related benefit reforms discussion

System
System Posts: 229 Online Community Programme Lead
in Current affairs
This discussion was created from comments split from: Green Paper and Benefits Reform Updates.

Comments

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 4,181 Championing

    "While the previous government had consulted on reforming PIP, its proposals didn’t include the specific eligibility change proposed by the current government. The changes to the UC health element in terms of payment levels represent a significant policy upheaval, for which no consultation has taken place. The previous government’s plan to abolish the WCA didn’t encompass making the PIP daily living component the sole gateway to the UC health element."

    (From the CAB report)

    Except that's not true! DWP 's intention to introduce a Health Element has been in the public domain for two or three years with all but 'the most severely disabled' becoming 'disabled jobseekers' under UC.

    Of course we're not talking about UC with all this huffing and puffing about what is only a Green Paper as though major reforms did not already pass without proper scrutiny, impact assessments, etc etc. They did in 2012. There was indeed a sleight of hand within the 2016 Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016, work being the operative word.

    No charity can be relied upon for accuracy. Benefits & Work, Full Fact, CAB, Scope can only tell you what the government tells them to tell you. Even Hansard is imprecise as I discovered during the benefits reforms, 10 years ago.

    Thorough research is the only way to find facts.

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 4,181 Championing

    I read an email reply to another member ands it's clear that Kemi Badenoch cannot even write or spell properly 😮 to imagine she might help the disabled community is fanciful.

  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Online Community Member Posts: 17,030 Championing
    edited May 31

    It has to be remembered that politicians, like medical consultants, dictate things for their secretaries. I can't tell you how many letters to my GP I've asked to also receive a copy of have been atrociously spelt, not even getting the names of my disorders correctly spelt (& how many I've corrected as I'd been asked to do so by more than one consultant).

    You might be interested to read this @WhatThe - tho if you don't think much of Full Fact, then please ignore, tho it does mention Hansard corrections: https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/web_-parliamentary_briefing-correcting_the_record-full_fact-_2023.pdf

    As that link unfortunately didn't work, then click on the link below, then 'Procedure Committee's recommendations on MPs correcting the record'

    https://fullfact.org/policy/reports/

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 4,181 Championing

    So Hansard can be corrected? Thank you for the link.

    Interesting that the inquiry transcript mentions Stephen Timms sweating (my word) to correct an unemployment statistic.

  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Online Community Member Posts: 17,030 Championing

    I also try to research @WhatThe - I think there's much on Full Fact that you 'may' after all find helpful.

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 4,181 Championing

    It's hard to believe it could be done especially as this wasn't an error but a ploy.

    I will certainly read up on the Procedure Committee and members.

  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 1,287 Championing
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1033157#Comment_1033157

    Chiarieds, I’ve always appreciated your approach to research, calm, thorough, and focused on verifying facts rather than bending them to fit a narrative. That kind of clarity brings real strength to discussions like this.

    As Rosie said when she started the thread, the aim was to create a space where members can share confirmed and reliable updates. It allows people to access key information and links quickly, without having to sift through posts that aren’t directly relevant to the 2025 reforms.

    We’re now facing the most significant welfare changes in a generation. It’ll be interesting to see what the government continues to drip-feed between now and the end of the consultation period. Staying clear-headed and grounded in up-to-date information has never been more important.

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 4,181 Championing

    MW, thorough research is the only way to the facts.

    Proposed changes cannot be assessed in isolation from existing rules. Had we at any point understood what happened in 2012 and 2016, I would not be doing this.

    The disabled community dropped the ball ten years ago. Stop pretending those dangerous reforms are not relevant now. They are!

  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 1,287 Championing
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1033205#Comment_1033205

    Thank you for your input. However, as Rosie from Scope has requested, this thread is reserved for confirmed and verifiable updates on the welfare reforms only. It seems you may have missed Rosie’s comments, where she emphasised:

    “We wanted to create a discussion where we can all share updates that have been confirmed and verified. Please try to keep this discussion to verifiable sources of information only. Another discussion will remain open for more general chat, speculation, sharing other links and supporting each other. You can find that discussion here: Green Paper Related Discussions.”

    I think your most recent post would be better suited to the other Green Paper thread, so members looking for current, relevant information can find it in a space free from speculation and opinion.

  • WhatThe
    WhatThe Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 4,181 Championing

    I think that is Rosie's call!

    Much of the other thread read like a chatroom stretching to aging presidents and UK migration.

    I agree there should be no conjecture just good analysis of welfare reform past and present. All welfare reform is inextricably linked. Second and third-hand information won't cut it.

  • Charlie_Scope
    Charlie_Scope Posts: 186 Scope Online Community Coordinator

    Hi all,

    I've moved this portion of the conversation into its own discussion thread because it was becomming quite broad and veering off-topic. Our aim with the Green Paper and Benefits Reform Updates discussion is to keep information about current benefit reforms, particularly those related to the 2025 announcements and proposals, easily accessible for all members, and key updates aren't lost.

    I completely understand that the original discussion can be hard to follow at times, and that important points or historical context may get buried, so I felt a new discussion here was more appropriate, so we can keep the Updates thread clear and useful for everyone.

    That said, the points raised here are incredibly valuable.

    The historical context provided by @WhatThe regarding past reforms, such as the 2012 changes and the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016, offers important insights into how current proposals might unfold.

    @chiarieds, thank you for sharing the Full Fact resource on correcting the parliamentary record. I've found it very useful in the past with fact checking many claims, especially in this era of mis-information.

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