PIP appeal advice please - tribunal

betty72 · June 22

Hi there I wonder if this question is allowed. I was recently awarded standard rate PIP for daily living and standard rate for mobility due to difficulties moving. (I use walking aids and need to sort a scooter or wheelchair but am too anxious to go out in one anyway unless I hire a carer). I was given 0 points for undertaking journeys which I disagreed with so asked for a MR on the mobility part because I can't undertake just any journey unaided. I get anxious and stressed at the thought of going out to many places alone which has manifested due to my physical vulnerabilities and loss of confidence. My appeal was rejected because they feel my problems don't affect me enough which I strongly disagree with. I've explained what I can and can't do twice now. I've even cancelled hospital appointments to places I don't know because I have no one to go with me. Some consultations with a local hospital I do know have been on the phone as I get anxious going alone. I was completely honest and told them I only go to my local park a few minutes away a couple of times a week and sit on a bench for my mental health. I'm allergic to many medications now and I was in a dark place because of how much my life has changed and I couldn't do that at all for a long time. I don't even have the confidence to go to places I do know, for example a town 5 miles away I used to live in. I certainly can't go to places I don't know and don't like being far from home. Silly I know but I can't help it at the moment. My symptoms can be scary and I feel vulnerable with my legs issues.

The DWP asked me when I appealed on the phone what happens to me if I have to go to places I don't know and I said I just avoid them which is true. I'm mainly housebound but also because my conditions leave me struggling to function. I can't even get public transport because I don't like being far from home . Would I have a chance it I took it to tribunal? Or do they mean I have to have learning disabilities or a health condition like epilepsy and need assistance to qualify for points for undertaking journeys?

I also think I over estimated my mobility capabilities and originally said I can manage to walk 20 - 50 metres but that's pushing myself with pain, discomfort and weakness. I try to exercise my legs as much as I can because I'm petrified about losing the use of them completely so that's the maximum I can do but some days not even that. I was also very active before and get very frustrated sitting all the time. I recently read somewhere that even if you can walk a certain distance, if you get pain and discomfort as soon as you stand (which I do), then it's not classed as safely and reliably etc. Is that right? Should I have put 0 metres?

Any advice would be appreciated thank you. If questions like this aren't allowed on here then that's fine. I just didn't want to bother taking it to a tribunal if I've misunderstood the descriptors for undertaking journeys and the part about walking.

Thanks again 🙏

OverlyAnxious · June 23

Hi,

If you're unable to leave the house on the majority of days (4 days a week, or 16 days a month) due to overwhelming psychological distress then you should score 10 points for following a journey.

You don't need to have any specific diagnosis for this, but they do need to see some sort of physical symptoms preventing you from getting out, rather than just saying 'anxiety' which is too broad for the descriptors.

The moving around descriptor is a bit of a grey area for pain. A lot of people experience pain when walking but can still reliably walk a certain amount of distance. If you can walk to your local park a couple of times a week then I don't think 0 metres is appropriate here, and would be questioned very hard by any assessor.

betty72 · June 23

Hi thanks for your response.

I have only managed to go out locally a few times a week but not anywhere unfamiliar and I don't have anyone to back me up as I'm single and have no friends (as sad as that is to say) so can't prove this. When I looked at descriptors on advice websites it says about familiar and unfamiliar journeys. I know I can go to a few do familiar places if local (ie. park and local corner shop) but I simply cannot do the latter which I thought you could score points on.

Regarding walking to the park, I don't walk there as I can't. I drive there even though it's 2 minutes away and there's a bench next to the car park. It's not just pain I experience, it's weakness, heaviness and instability and that's the most I can push to but sometimes less. My car is my lifeline otherwise I wouldn't get out at all. I used to work long days and walk for miles so I have been struggling mentally with my mobility issues and visiting the park has helped me stop me from developing severe depression.

Thanks again.

OverlyAnxious · June 23

Hi,

Unfortunately the Journey Following descriptor doesn't cover your situation. This is exactly the same issue I had the first time I applied. You would need another person to go with you in order to score points for familiar or unfamiliar journeys.

So that only leaves the OPD descriptor for not being able to go out at all on the majority of days. (That is the one I get now that I'm effectively housebound since losing the ability to drive)

Apologies for misreading that you walked to the park. If you really can only manage a few metres at a time then you should be able to score some points for the Moving Around descriptor. The assessors will come down hard on that though, and will use the fact that you can walk around the local shop to suggest than you can walk for several metres. Again it comes down to being able to prove that you can't do it, which is difficult.

betty72 · June 23

betty72 · June 23

betty72 · June 23

Hi sorry to ask again. It's just I struggle to process information since my illness and need things a bit simplified. I already had ADHD. I'm a bit confused what you mean about the journey descriptor doesn't cover my situation because I would need someone with me on unfamiliar journeys. Hence why I've cancelled appointments to St. George's in London for example and another at a hospital 30 minutes away which I couldn't even face getting a taxi to. Even the thought of going to the one in London with someone petrifies me. Is needing someone to accompany you not a valid reason to score points?

That's ok I didn't make it very clear. Any walking I do causes pain, fatigue and all the other symptoms the moment I stand and I'm very slow but I force myself to do it because I'm scared of losing complete use of them as well as my fitness levels. Then getting more health problems and gaining weight. I get food deliveries in so only pop to the local shop for maybe milk or an essential item. The DWP know I walk from my car to the park bench so I'm not totally wheelchair bound and was awarded 10 points. I wasn't sure if I may be entitled to 12 points because of my issues on standing. It's not like the symptoms appear after walking a certain distance. I'm also confused because I know people who have enhanced rate for mobility and have a car through the motability scheme and use it to go shopping etc. Not that I want a new car as they use up a lot of your PIP and I would barely use it anyway so it would be a waste. I'm happy with my little Honda. I just don't understand how it all works as people can go out to work and claim PIP, hire a car ok the scheme etc but on the other hand it seems you have to be housebound to get the enhanced mobility rate.

I'm sorry to hear you're housebound and have lost the ability to drive it must be really tough.

Thanks again.

OverlyAnxious · June 23

Ok, so there's a few different things going on here.

Needing someone to accompany you on a journey is valid. But you would need to be able to go out on the majority of days with them to meet that descriptor.

If you can't go out on the majority of days, with or without another person, then only 10E can apply here, unable take any journey on the majority of days because of OPD.

If you don't go out on the majority of days, but not because of OPD, then that doesn't fit any of the descriptors. You could try to explain that you'd go out more if you had a friend or relative to go with, but that's a very weak assertion which can't be proven one way or the other.

It's not possible to get Enhanced PIP for journey planning while housebound, 10 points is the maximum for that. But it is possible to score points in both questions to make 12 points overall for Enhanced Mobility.

Honestly I'm not sure you can provide enough evidence to meet any descriptor on the journey planning question from the information we've seen so far. But as you already have 10 points for the Moving Around question then I believe there is a chance of getting that up to Enhanced. I don't think it'll be easy, and it will depend on the assessor that you get, but there definitely is a chance there.

Appealing is a risk because they will look at the whole award again and you could end up losing what you have. So it's your decision to make, whether the extra money would be worth the risk, especially if you don't want to use the Motability scheme.

betty72 · June 23

Hi thanks again for your detailed advice. I'll probably have a think about it as I don't want to risk losing anything I've been awarded because it's been a massive help for me.

I don't want to use the Mobility Scheme but I was considering hiring a carer to accompany me to any appointments so I don't keep cancelling or even take me to my local town if I hired a scooter. I guess a scooter would be the only vehicle I'd consider on the scheme when I'm ready but I could probably get a cheap 2nd hand one somewhere.

I just disagree with their point that I only have some restrictions but I feel hugely restricted and debilitated compared to my old life where I was fiercely independent, very active and confident.

Thanks again for your time and all the best 🙏.

betty72 · June 23

PIP appeal advice please - tribunal

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