universal credit review and i have gambling on bank statements
Comments
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That is the correct date, but the calculation isn't that simple unfortunately.
First you have to add up everything you've spent since getting your UC payment. Only the remaining UC (not spent so far) can be deducted as income.
This gets even more complicated for PIP because PIP will always be paid at a different point in your UC assessment period.
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@ OverlyAnxious thanks for replying ,I fully understand what you are saying about universal credit. Is the pip fully disregarded for the assessment period or does that depend on how much is spent also.my pip seems to be paid just before the assessment period ends
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PIP works in the same way, can't disregard any money that has already been spent.
PIP is paid every 4 weeks so ends up being 2 or 3 days earlier each month. You will even end up with two PIP payments in one month each year due to this.
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I have checked my balances for the past few years and on 6 occasions I am just over £6300 towards the lower capital limit and the rest of the assessment periods I am under. I know and understand the fact that I will owe something in regards to a small overpayment however that is not what concerns me.
As an example if my capital was £6300 in the middle of the assessment period and if I have gambling losing debits for example £500 in one day and won the £500 back in the same day by way of William hill depositing the funds back to my bank account. Is this treated as capital by universal credit and would they then raise my capital to £6800. I believe the debit and deposit cancel themselves out as they are equal if it happened in the same day and i think my capital on the same day should be reverted back to £6300. can someone tell me if I am correct .many thanks in advance.
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For Universal Credit, it only matters what's in your account on the final day of the Assessment Period. It does not matter how much it goes up and down in the middle. As long as it doesn't go over £16,000 which is the limit for closing the claim.
This is different to ESA where capital was declarable on all days, if it ever went up or down through another £250 bracket overnight.
If you spend £500 of income from UC, then win back £500, that would be classed as capital instead of income. But this is only worth noting if you are trying to calculate the benefit income deduction. £500 would not be added to your overall bank account total if that's what you're thinking.
Also for reference, the lower limit is £6000. If you have even £6001 then there is 1x £4.35 capital deduction made for that. If you have £6300 then there is 2x £4.35 capital deduction made for that.
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@OverlyAnxious thank you very much for all your replies you have been very helpful.
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@OverlyAnxious I have 1 more question for you if you would be kind enough to reply. I understand what your saying and appreciate your advice. I have looked at my bank account again and found a couple of high gambling bets. Will universal credit accuse my gambling as excessive or irresponsible if I lost £2000 gambling and win £2000 back again in the same day leaving my balance unaltered at £6300 in the middle of the assessment period. I never lost the money in one bet and would have lost and won it back throughout the day as in smaller bets knowing it would never be a loss of £2000 at the end of the day.my worry is when it happened my balance was £6300
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They really aren't there to judge whether spending is excessive or irresponsible. They can only look for money being purposely spent, given away or hidden in order to claim a higher benefit amount. (That's the official description for deprivation of capital).
Absolute worst case scenario for having £6300 one month would be having to repay £8.70. Really not worth worrying about. 🙂
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@OverlyAnxios i thank you for you help with your replies .
So are you saying they cannot accuse me of spending excessively or irresponsible by gambling this amount of money and winning it back in the same day. The total was never bet on one gamble and I would have lost and won it back throughout the day so I never would have lost £2000 if you know what I mean as I basically restarted a new bet knowing i had already equalled my debits and then deposited the money back into my account which equalled £2000.You mentioned purposely spent ???? is my gambling classed as purposely spent if i am winning it back?
my other worry is i have been on universal credit since April 2022 and in that time I have been slightly over the lower capital amount 6 times at the end of different assessment periods(never any more than £6300 each time ).I have not reported this and now I am hit with the uc review ,can they stop my benefit because I failed to report this or what is my punishment for this. My gambling has now stopped but overly worrying myself to a point of despair.
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the above question is my final question if you can reply @OverlyAnxious.much appreciated to everyone who has helped me in previous questions
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You can ask as many questions on here as you like. 🙂 I'm just not around to reply in the afternoons due to my own health conditions.
Correct, they don't have any legal backing to accuse you of irresponsible spending. They would have to prove that you have purposely deprived yourself of the capital in order to claim more benefit, which isn't what's happening here.
Many claimants have gone slightly over the limit occasionally, that's partly why they're doing these reviews now. They shouldn't stop your money for this. Just ask you to repay the overpayment, which will only be around £60 from the figures you've provided. In some cases there is also a fixed penalty of £50 on top. They may not even ask to go back any further than 4 months unless your capital was over on the earliest statement (suggesting that it may also have been over in previous months). So I really wouldn't be worrying about it too much at this stage.
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@OverlyAnxious thank you so much for your time and advice. I will wait now for the phone call and update you with the outcome or if I need more advice. You replying has helped me cope with this whilst i wait the review
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@OverlyAnxious one thing i am not calculating when i am at the end of the assessment period is my pip and universal credit which is uc £1244.49 and pip £749.80.although my balance in the bank was £6300 at the end on the 6 occasions since 2022, i am not sure how the benefits are calculated in the end period regarding capital and if that would reduce my capital by anything.
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You are calculating it in the safest way like that. At least we know that's the worst case scenario.
Some of the income could be deducted, but it's a complicated calculation because you would need to work out exactly how much you'd spent since getting the UC & PIP payments. For example, your total income from UC & PIP is roughly £2000 a month. But if you've spent £750 on rent, £500 on bills and £250 on food then you've only got £500 of income left to deduct by the end of the AP, not the full £2000. Also, as stated earlier, spending £2000 on gambling in one day has definitely wiped out all of your income for that month, so we know there isn't any income to be deducted for that assessment period.
There doesn't seem to be an easy way to calculate this accurately, so I suspect the reviewers don't bother in most cases. Unfortunately where it really matters is in a case like yours where accounts are hovering around £6000.
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@OverlyAnxious thank you and much appreciated
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@OverlyAnxious I would like to thank you for your advice and most of all your time you spend replying . One minute I am ok and then in the evening the worry creeps back in. This has to be the worst feeling ever as I overthink things with the fear of something bad is going to happen within this review. I sent my statements and ID on the 19 august (25 days ago) and it seems forever that I wait for the phone call.
I just want to make sure I have explained everything correctly to you. My balance was around £6300 on the day I gambled the £2000 however the deposit hit my bank first which inflated my account to around £8300 briefly and on the same day the debit was taken from my account taking my balance back down to around £6300 middle of the assessment period .
In reality all I have done is won my money back. Deposits seem to always hit banks before debits as debits require more security checks which make debit transactions slower. The deposit and the debit might have hit my account at exact same time however I have no idea. Obviously, I have to pay first with the debits before I am eligible for any pay-out. My worry I have is will universal credit think I won the money first and then lost it regardless of whether both transactions happened in the betting shop on the same day and was deposited and debited into my bank on the same day. As explained, I have lots of gambling in my bank statements but not all crazy and I just fear they will think I am doing something excessive and cut me off from benefits. I only have one bank account and never had PayPal or online gambling accounts as explained before my balance has only been around £6300 on six occasions since 2022 and all other assessments periods were under £6000.It’s the betting that is worrying me to a crazy extreme and I have never felt this bad ever. I would really appreciate it if you could once again guide me with your knowledge. I fear that universal credit will try and class me as causing deprivation of capital and calculate my benefits as if I still have the capital (notional capital)
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@OverlyAnxious are you ok if i hit you with anther question, really appreciate your opinions
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In reality all I have done is won my money back. Deposits seem to always hit banks before debits as debits require more security checks which make debit transactions slower. The deposit and the debit might have hit my account at exact same time however I have no idea. Obviously, I have to pay first with the debits before I am eligible for any pay-out. My worry I have is will universal credit think I won the money first and then lost it regardless of whether both transactions happened in the betting shop on the same day and was deposited and debited into my bank on the same day. As explained, I have lots of gambling in my bank statements but not all crazy and I just fear they will think I am doing something excessive and cut me off from benefits.
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@OverlyAnxious
Deposits seem to always hit banks before debits as debits require more security checks which make debit transactions slower. The deposit and the debit might have hit my account at exact same time however I have no idea. My worry I have is will universal credit think I won the money first and then lost it regardless of whether both transactions happened in the betting shop on the same day and was deposited and debited into my bank on the same day. I just fear they will think I am doing something excessive and cut me off from benefits. It's the betting that is worrying me to a crazy extreme and I have never felt this bad ever. I would really appreciate it if you could once again guide me with your knowledge. I fear that universal credit will try and class me as causing deprivation of capital and calculate my benefits as if I still have the capital (notional capital)
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@OverlyAnxious I would like to thank you for your advice and most of all your time you spend replying . One minute I am ok and then in the evening the worry creeps back in. This has to be the worst feeling ever as I overthink things with the fear of something bad is going to happen within this review. I sent my statements and ID on the 19 august (25 days ago) and it seems forever that I wait for the phone call.
I just want to make sure I have explained everything correctly to you. My balance was around £6300 on the day I gambled the £2000 however the deposit hit my bank first which inflated my account to around £8300 briefly and on the same day the debit was taken from my account taking my balance back down to around £6300 middle of the assessment period .
In reality all I have done is won my money back. Deposits seem to always hit banks before debits as debits require more security checks which make debit transactions slower. The deposit and the debit might have hit my account at exact same time however I have no idea. Obviously, I have to pay first with the debits before I am eligible for any pay-out. My worry I have is will universal credit think I won the money first and then lost it regardless of whether both transactions happened in the betting shop on the same day and was deposited and debited into my bank on the same day. As explained, I have lots of gambling in my bank statements but not all crazy and I just fear they will think I am doing something excessive and cut me off from benefits. I only have one bank account and never had PayPal or online gambling accounts as explained before my balance has only been around £6300 on six occasions since 2022 and all other assessments periods were under £6000.It’s the betting that is worrying me to a crazy extreme and I have never felt this bad ever. I would really appreciate it if you could once again guide me with your knowledge. I fear that universal credit will try and class me as causing deprivation of capital and calculate my benefits as if I still have the capital (notional capital)
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