It seems society in general sees racism and sexism as bad but disablism and mentalism as okay

Ross1975
Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 393 Pioneering
edited October 30 in Everyday life

I was wondering why this is, and had an interesting chat with ChatGPT about it, and I'd like to share it with you guys and see what you think. It's a lot to read through so I will just post a summerised version, and a link to the full version of the chat if you're interested in reading it:

Why society treats disablism and mentalism differently from racism and sexism

It’s frustrating how racism and sexism are seen as completely unacceptable, but disablism and mentalism often aren’t. There’s little public outrage when disabled or mentally ill people are talked about badly in politics or the media — even though the language and attitudes can be just as harmful.

This seems to happen because:

  • Racism and sexism have long histories of activism and public awareness, so society has learned to condemn them.
  • Disablism and mentalism haven’t had the same visibility. A lot of the harm happens out of sight — in benefits systems, institutions, or behind closed doors — so people don’t see it.
  • There’s still stigma and blame. Many assume disability or mental illness means being “less capable” or “not trying hard enough,” which lets discrimination slide.
  • Society still links human worth to productivity and independence, so people who can’t work or who need support are treated as “less deserving.”

Often, it takes major public suffering before an “-ism” becomes taboo. With racism, slavery and segregation forced the world to face the horror; with sexism, generations of activism made inequality impossible to ignore. Sadly, the same recognition for disabled and mentally ill people may only come if huge numbers are pushed into visible poverty, homelessness, or worse.

Ideally, we shouldn’t have to wait for that. We need awareness, solidarity, and activism before a crisis forces society to care.

Full version of the chat: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VLruenhytfokoLboqpvQ74LUWYj_EfEAX_AGW2sMlLk/edit?usp=sharing

Thoughts?

Comments

  • Littlefatfriend
    Littlefatfriend Online Community Member Posts: 279 Pioneering

    Pardon me Ross1975 but this is yet another demonstration of the flaws and bias present in AI.

    "There’s little public outrage when disabled or mentally ill people are talked about badly in politics or the media"??? That's not the case. As with most media and things, it depends what one reads and whom one talks to.

    Some people will always stigmatise and blame others in unfair ways. But that's only some people and in my experience there are fewer of them every day. Don't talk to them if you disagree with them, simples!

    😇

  • Ross1975
    Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 393 Pioneering
    edited October 30

    Your reply doesn’t really address the main discussion, it’s more of a personal anecdote and dismissal.

    It is actually true that there is little public and media outrage when disabled or mentally ill people are talked about badly in politics and the media. Most of the outrage happens in the disabled and mentally ill communities.

    And I don't talk to them if I disagree with them. It's also hard to stay away from it all when things come up in the media, on Youtube and in topics on here.

  • Chris75_
    Chris75_ Online Community Member Posts: 3,994 Championing

    Don't these artificial intelligence gizmos just confirm anything one might ask it? They give me the creeps, quite frankly.

  • Ross1975
    Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 393 Pioneering

    Do you mean, ‘don’t these AI gizmos just confirm anything one might tell them’? As I'm not sure how a question can be confirmed.

    Anyway, no, they don’t just agree with everything.

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Posts: 8,452 Championing

    A majority of Society over the centuries have been brain washed to believe what thier told as factual if they dont live it or it doesn't effect them they will jump on the band wagon get caught up in us and them not having the logic to see they are getting played by the establishment the elites have relied on this method for years we turn on each other never looking up just hating Joe because he gets a measly 20 pound more racism still really exist as long as man lives there will always be war hate bitterness all our lifes we been lied to our whole worlds minds have been shaped not in a positive way even on this forum where we have all suffered at the hands of the dwp still some comments stating that some people are more deserving the only thing I think is different this time is labour has targeted all of the UK elderly disabled you name it now people are feeling the worry fear shock like we have done for years people are waking up slowly and understanding how they work and they are not happy its sickening how they act the whole world can see what an embarrassment they are standing up spouting pure lies and hate shame on them

  • Holly_Scope
    Holly_Scope Posts: 4,260 Scope Online Community Coordinator

    Hi all. Several comments have been removed because they weren't in keeping with the house rules. We appreciate this is quite a sensitive topic but please keep the conversation respectful to one another.

  • Ross1975
    Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 393 Pioneering

    I just wanted to apologise if anything in my earlier posts came across as disruptive, I certainly didn’t mean for that to happen. I really value this forum and the chance to have thoughtful discussions.

    I also think this topic raises some really important points, and I’d love to hear more thoughts from everyone on this contradiction in society.

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Posts: 8,452 Championing
  • Ross1975
    Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 393 Pioneering

    Thanks Catherine, that's really nice of you to say.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Championing
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Chris75_
    Chris75_ Online Community Member Posts: 3,994 Championing

    So every claim for state support is genuine, mental or physical? A person can assert that there are chancers out there, without it following that all claims are fraudulent.

    I don't believe that my Muscular Dystrophy is a con, any more than the thousands of other legitimate claims, mental or physical. You are labouring on a falsehood.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Championing
    edited November 2
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • colejames
    colejames Online Community Member Posts: 49 Empowering

    Hi Ross,

    I'm in two minds in regard to certain types of "isms". I do think that there is more tolerance in society for some "isms" compared with how disablism and mentalism are viewed but I don't believe that any of the protected characteristics actually are fully accepted. Unfortunately we have been living in the cultural zone of "one" since the late 1970's, it was one of the core features of Thatcherism/Reaganism and even New Labour didn't try to steer away from it enough.

    Yes we do get vilified and those of us with non-visible disabilities are exposed to it even when it is not aimed at us specifically. I have sat in rooms where people have slagged off those of us with mental health problems and I challenge it but I've also known that I was not the only person in the room with similar mental challenges and seen them sit on their hands. This is mainly because of stigma but also because of the way that politicians and the media like to have "villains" who they can turn other groups against. Racism and Sexism are still as real as is homophobia and hate crimes are soaring across protected charactistics but at the moment those in power are targeting the disabled, immigrants, the transgendered community and those over pension age. When you turn communities against each other they are easier to control and,more importantly, they are not looking at those who are the real problem.

    There will be bad seeds in all groups who will abuse the system however there are a lot less of them percentage wise than in the top 1% who almost all abuse the system. Yet the politician and media rarely sell that story. Much of the media is controlled by the 1% so it can only be expected to divert attention from their own abuse.

    We live in a worl;d where stats are manipulated. We are told that the benefits bill is the highest it has ever been. Well when you realise that the state pension is included in the benefits bill then it comes as no surprise that it is the case. More people are living longer lives and because we live longer we are also more likely to develop issues which can be classed as disabilities. If these figures were removed, then we would still have more people and more cost but it would be a much smaller figure. However that would not make such good propaganda.

    There never seems to be discussion about why there is there such an increase in mental health issues in young people? It's all very well calling them a burden, but unless you seek to understand the causes, you will not be able to help them. Why are more people having more stress in their daily lives and suffering a variety of mental health issues? Successive governments and the media have tried to portray it as a weak society rather than consider the root causes and blame everyone rather than themselves.

    I thought we had come a long way in removing the stigma from mental and physical disability but since the Brexit vote (and I am not blaming any of it on leavers/remainers but on how the campaigns were run) there has been a wider division in society and also a removal of tact. So many lies were told and groups turned against each other that it has caused a long-term fracture in our society along with a decisive shift in where the centre of politics sits so that people feel that they have freedom of speech but without any responsibility for what they say. Social media has been a perfect tool in escallating that chasm.

    The fall in the stats of those disabled employees can also be mapped to the defunding of incentives for employers to take on disabled employee such as the grants to make premises safe or to put in place reasonable adjustments. Job centres are actively advising people not to put their disability on their application forms and the rules about disabled people being interviewed if they meet the selection criteria seem to have disappeared. It is strange that politicians cannot see the cause and effect.

    So yes I would agree that we are in the firing line at the moment, but I don't think that the attacks on us are any worse that the attacks on over groups in society. Racism is strongly linked to Islamophobia/Anti-semitism and is still institutionally rife in this country and immigation remains one of the hottest argued subject but still ignores key information. Women may be the majority but they still have restricted access to the boardroom and senior management positions. LGBTQi rights in the UK have moved from the top of Europe towards the bottom with only Italy below us (not including the once USSR controlled eastern european countries), transphobia is at an all time high and our governments have led attacks on the old and young. None of us are being treated favourably.

  • SmellyBin
    SmellyBin Online Community Member Posts: 113 Empowering

    Thanks for raising this subject! I have two things on my mind with this:

    1. Ross says: 'Many assume disability or mental illness means being “less capable” or “not trying hard enough.´
      and @colejames says: 'I thought we had come a long way in removing the stigma from mental and physical disability.

    Admittedly, I myself often think there is something wrong with me, that I don't deserve to be well, to heal, whatever. Blaming myself for getting ill in the first place. Even though I know, I really know, I am not less of a human being.
    Othering is definitely part of our society where things often have a hierarchical approach. How come we cannot see each other without how we differ? These are issues also for those who are not chronically ill in any way.

    1. Our invisibility is part of the problem without the rest of the world being aware of it, nor is there much willingness to resolve this.
      Just one example: I fill in surveys for a bit of pocketmoney and often come across questions about demographics that don't include the option of being disabled, not able to work, or something similar. Once it even was a questionnaire by a university. This is so infuriating, leaving me with the urge to yell VISIBILITY IS VALIDITY!

    PS - I found this forum thanks to an AI-assistant. Seriously.

  • Ross1975
    Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 393 Pioneering

    Welcome aboard SmellyBin, it makes a change having someone here who isn't so anti-Ai. 👍️

  • SmellyBin
    SmellyBin Online Community Member Posts: 113 Empowering

    Thanks for the warm welcome!

    Oh, I'm skeptical alright, but as long as I can check the sources it can be very helpful.


    It is not the technology that is the problem, but the way society handles it, I think. We are living in a deafening and demanding society generally and AI seems to be all about improving productivity. Yet, what is the use of that if we don't lower our standards? Wouldn't it be cool if everyone was to work 30 hrs a week thanks to AI?
    What I am trying to say is that AI won't solve the most important problems we're dealing with in this day and age. I am not expecting it to improve our health or the environment, make us feel more relaxed, give us higher quality food, let alone solve poverty or world hunger, not to mention world peace...
    On the other hand, who knows what might happen - fingers crossed.

    And for those who are struggling with expectations, ableism or life in general: this is what I asked Perplexity (AI assistant) and how I found this forum - https://www.perplexity.ai/search/are-there-other-chronics-house-Vs4UBUZCS.OPPye92SkfOA#0

  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Online Community Member Posts: 352 Pioneering

    I like to think about who benefits from creating divisions between people!

    It seems every day a new division pops up, who is stirring the pot?

    I can't remember where I read before, it could even have been on here but you can enjoy my re-telling!

    There was an experiement where they had red and black ants living together in a jar. They left each other alone and went about their little anty-lives, until someone shook the jar, and the ants killed each other, blaming eachother for the shaking.

    Who is shaking our jar?!

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Posts: 8,452 Championing

    I get imposter syndrome and feel like I could get out there again until I put in situations where i have to get out there ie cmht assessments I get so angry bpd rage is real if you know you know I get so triggered tried to explain to them that society people trigger me on a long term basic ie seeing same people daily is traumatic for me is a society set up they think joining at group will help I despair when your brain wired differently your always tired angry drained gaslight so so overwhelming and seems to be getting worse