Universal Basic Income: What Would It Mean for Disabled and Long Term Sick?

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  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,559 Championing

    Oh wow so many i wonder why it will be worldwide do they tell what you can and cant buy ??

  • SwiftFox
    SwiftFox Online Community Member Posts: 767 Championing
    edited March 21

    Not if it's a unversal income, it would keep the pressure off people who can't work or homeless people.I should think if it's enough to live on, there wouldn't be need for benefits at all. Nobody would starve, nobody would have the stigma of claiming it, if you have to claim.Ideal world.

  • Ross1975
    Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 883 Championing

    I'm totally all for UBI for the same reasons as SwiftFox.

  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 2,052 Championing

    The thing I keep coming back to is what happens to people who fall in the middle.

    If UC is replaced with a flat UBI, and LCW and LCWRA disappear because the Greens see the current system of means testing and assessments as complicated, punitive, stressful and unfair, then there is no real recognition left for people who are unwell but do not meet the threshold for PIP. It becomes a simple yes or no system where either you qualify for PIP or you do not.

    At the moment the Green Party is the only party openly floating a full UBI, but this is not about them or any political party. I am interested in the proposal itself, because once an idea like UBI is being talked about, other parties often start looking at it too. That is why I am focusing on what the policy would mean in practice.

    My worry is that someone who is too unwell to work but does not qualify for PIP could end up with only the standard UBI, which is the same amount someone fit and able to work would get. Right now they would usually get LCWRA because they are not expected to work. Without that, their situation is not recognised at all.

    It is also hard to ignore that the Greens have talked about a UBI of around £89 a week, which is less than the current UC standard allowance. That does not give much confidence that it would be enough to live on, especially for someone who cannot top it up by working.

    That is the real concern for me. In trying to simplify everything, the system could become too flat, and people with real limitations who do not fit neatly into PIP criteria could end up with less support than they have now.

  • SwiftFox
    SwiftFox Online Community Member Posts: 767 Championing

    £89 a week isn't enough to feed and clothe a baby, so I'm more certain it have to be significantly more.

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,559 Championing

    I agree very concerning i was all for greens but without changing subject im not happy about thier views a couple of things i never relized how lwcra protected us so much all under one umbrella is not a fair society so someone could recieve UBI and work and bring extra money in whilst a disabled person cant and without sounding ungrateful bills rent rising it would be more impossible something has really shifted in the world humanity is gone i hope we see a fairer future

  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 2,052 Championing

    @SwiftFox

    See link below. The article is from the BBC 2019, but it shows that the Greens did at that time propose introducing a universal basic income by 2025, with a minimum adult rate of £89 per week. That’s the context I was referring to when I mentioned the figure.

    It’s also worth noting that the article mentions disabled people and single parents receiving additional payments, but it doesn’t mention long term sick claimants who don’t meet the PIP threshold. That’s exactly the group I’m concerned about, because they currently rely on LCWRA. If everything becomes flat unless you qualify for PIP, that middle group could lose out.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-50439961

  • SwiftFox
    SwiftFox Online Community Member Posts: 767 Championing

    It's basicly income support from the old days, it was only just enough to live then if you came out of work, but it's not fit for purpose now days. £89 wouldn't cover food and rent and council tax and energy costs, it would obviously make you look for work harder, if that's the meaning of it. But it wouldn't help anyone who's disabled, although the sickness benefit of those days was no good either. At that rate, they would be opening more food banks than shops to survive, mp"s just don't have a clue of how we survive,and obviously haven't a clue of how people managed, even on what they get now. We'll be back to us and them days of old.

  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Online Community Member Posts: 17,434 Championing

    Again this is a while ago, but the New Economics Foundation had this to say about a UBI in 2019: https://neweconomics.org/2019/04/universal-basic-income-new-study-finds-little-evidence-that-it-can-live-up-to-its-promise

    The small trial in Finland found that people were 'happier' but there was no difference between those receiving a payment & those not in finding employment. [Thinking about our current Gov't hoping to get more people into work].

    Here in the UK, I think an even smaller trial (30 participants for each place) was also hoped to be started in a part of Jarrow in Tyne & Wear, & also East Finchley, London. I can only find some considered thoughts about this as it relates to East Finchley (this dated Sept 2025) about the 'pros' & 'cons': https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-09/ECS%20Committee%20-%20Universal%20Basic%20Income%20report%20-%20Final.pdf

    As @Catherine21 mentions - there was also trial of possibly up to 500 18 year olds leaving care in Wales (article dated June 2022): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61950546

  • JessieJ
    JessieJ Online Community Member Posts: 1,366 Championing

    They would have to up PIP rates, substantially & also change the criteria to encompass those that are currently ill. Then they would need to split off those that are longish time temporarily ill (will be fit sometime in the future) & those that are permanent. Otherwise, sick people will be living in the gutter or dying in the gutter, whilst those able to work, get a lift up. It ain't gonna work! What comes after lower class, as if it's just UBI, they will have given us one.

  • SwiftFox
    SwiftFox Online Community Member Posts: 767 Championing

    It has to be just enough to live on with no luxuries or people wouldn't want to work, there would be no incentive to go and earn and make life better. Work is good for the mind and soul and cures are happening all the time.

  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 2,052 Championing

    I agree, JessieJ. I don’t think UBI would work for a lot of long term sick claimants.

    PIP would stay exactly what it is now, a payment for the extra costs of disability, based on how someone’s condition affects their daily living and mobility. That covers things like equipment, care, transport and other needs directly linked to a person’s condition. It has never been meant to cover ordinary living costs, and UBI wouldn’t change that. The assessment would stay the same and people would apply in the same way.

    What disappears is LCWRA. That’s the part of the system that recognises when someone is too unwell to work. Under a flat UBI, that recognition simply isn’t there. Everyone is treated the same, whether they are unemployed, long term sick, or fit and working. The system doesn’t ask and it doesn’t distinguish, so it has no way of recognising people who are too unwell to work.

    And that’s intentional. The whole idea behind UBI is to get rid of means testing, the WCA, groups, reviews, all of it. But once you remove all of that, you also remove every way of identifying who is long term sick. The system can’t see them because it’s designed not to look. It also saves a lot of money on administration, which is part of the appeal.

    The outcome is pretty simple. Someone who is fit and working gets UBI plus their wages, so it’s a nice boost for them. Someone who’s too sick to work gets UBI and nothing else. The same flat payment that helps one person get ahead becomes a limit for someone else. And because the system no longer has any way to recognise their situation, there’s no way to fix it.

    In my view, that’s a basic flaw in a flat UBI model. A single payment might look fair, but it removes the ability to tell the difference between very different circumstances. Without that, the system can’t respond to variations in health, capacity or support needs, and the results end up being far less fair than they look on paper.

  • SheffieldMan1976
    SheffieldMan1976 Posts: 617 Connected

    People who can't work will still be called from a Pig to a Dog by the far right though for existing at the expense of their taxes.

  • SheffieldMan1976
    SheffieldMan1976 Posts: 617 Connected

    Indeed, if the companies are paying slave wages, financially you're better off staying on benefits… The worst thing is, the government knows this but certain people are constantly crying about people on benefits existing at the expense of their taxes.

  • luvpink
    luvpink Online Community Member Posts: 3,931 Championing

    It isn't just the "far right" who hold those views.

  • SwiftFox
    SwiftFox Online Community Member Posts: 767 Championing

    It's not happening all the time though is it? This discussion is on about a single payment plan for anyone that's temporary sick or out of work, in theory a brilliant idea from the old income support that was. It just needs adjusting to allow for people with serious illness to bypass this.

  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 2,052 Championing
    edited March 22

    @SheffieldMan1976

    This to me is not a left versus right point. The whole appeal of UBI is that it is cheaper and simpler because instead of paying for Jobcentres, DWP admin, means testing and assessments, you just give everyone the same basic amount. The Greens are not proposing it to stop people complaining about unemployed or sick people on benefits, but because one flat payment for all cuts a huge amount of administration and relieves recipients of the obligations built into the current system.

    The problem is that when you remove all that admin and means testing out, you also take away the only part of the system that currently recognises people who need extra support because they are too unwell to work. The model only works financially if the payment is low enough to give to everyone, which means it is not enough for people who cannot work and have no wages to top it up. UBI treats everyone the same, but people’s circumstances are not the same, and that is where it runs into trouble in my opinion.

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Online Community Member Posts: 9,559 Championing

    Do you think will link in with Digital ID one way of getting the masses on to Digital ID

  • SwiftFox
    SwiftFox Online Community Member Posts: 767 Championing
  • Ross1975
    Ross1975 Online Community Member Posts: 883 Championing

    That's a massive blanket statement which is also outdated about work being good for the mind and soul, it certainly isn't good for everyone and in many cases can it can actually deteriorate a persons mental health.