I recorded my PIP Assessment and the assessor was sacked for gross misconduct

ChrisG · September 2018

Yadnad said:

Even if you do record the assessment there is nothing you can do with that recording. I suppose you could complain to the assessing company, but you certainly cannot use it to prove anything to the DWP or even at a Tribunal.

Judges have allowed transcripts of secret recordings in the past. The recording itself is deemed inadmissible, however, the judge said that a transcript of the recording was allowed.

This is article -

A claimant who secretly recorded his personal independence payment (PIP) assessment and provided a transcript to a tribunal has won his appeal against a disability living allowance (DLA) to PIP transfer decision, the BBC has reported.

Nev Cartwright, 45, received DLA because of breathing difficulties caused by a lung tumour which led to his left lung being removed.

Last year he was told to attend a mdical to assess him for PIP instead of DLA. Because he had seen a programme the night before questioning the fairness of PIP assessments, Nev decided to secretly record the interview on his mobile phone.

As a result of the assessment Nev lost his higher rate mobility and had to return his Motability car.

When he read the PIP assessors report he realised that there was information missing and other details such as his peak flow reading, had been altered. The effect was to make Nev seem much more mobile than he actually was.

Nev had a professional company write a transcript of his assessment recording and asked to be allowed to submit it as evidence for his appeal.

The DWP tried to prevent the transcript being admitted by the tribunal, but they failed and the transcript was taken into account. As a result Nev won his case and now has his Motability vehicle again.

Given the very costly restrictions attempt to place on openly recording your PIP assessment, it is not surprising that some claimants turn to doing so covertly. Although we have had members who have used relatively inexpensive cassette recordersat their assessment.

It is not illegal to secretly record your assessment.

But if you are caught doing so and refuse to stop, the interview is likely to be ended and you will be held by the DWP to have failed to take part in the assessment with the result that you will not be awarded PIP.

Yadnad · September 2018

I agree you can use a transcript but we were discussing a recording.
But the cost of carrying out the transcription is down to the claimant and it s not cheap.

TheJudge · October 2018

I recorded my PiP assessment on my phone and I'm so glad I did. Numerous errors and blatant lies. I had been waiting 19 months for a hearing and then it got postponed due to the evidence and something that I recently discovered......My pip assessor (paramedic) was under investigation for fraud (38 counts) and professional misconduct. Irony: one of the charges is that he was working for two companies whilst claiming sickness benefit!!! He has now been struck off.
I am shocked that there seems to be no accountability on the part of ATOS but I absolutely intend on going through the court process to see them answer for what they have done.

Pippa_Alumni · October 2018

Welcome to the community @TheJudge and thanks for sharing this with us- goodness, what an experience you've had!

reesk92 · November 2018

i get its the rules but i smell a rat

You need to notify us before your appointment that you will like to record your assessment by calling our Enquiry Centre on 0808 1788 114.

ok but why do they need to be informed asking to be informed if im in say a iron lung would make sense they must be made aware that i might need special arangements but why does capita feel they must prepare to be placed on record?

You will need to provide your own audio-recording equipment. Your recording equipment must be able to produce two identical copies of the recording at the end of the assessment, either on audio cassette or CD. Mobile phones and laptops are not suitable mediums for recording assessments.

ok its reasonable to request i bring my own recording equipment but if your going to make specifications on the type of equipment then you should be expected to make such equipment available especially seen as such a device as you specify is specialist equipment to begin with

You will need to sign an agreement that sets out what you are and are not allowed to do with the recording.

ok but whats in this agreement do they have a copy of it online and what might the limitations be because if i were to record i most certainly will not be strong armed with threats of canceling my interview just because you shove a legal gagging order preventing me from using this recording outside of interactions with dwp and capita

this entire set of rules serves no purpose other than to disuade people from recording there interviews ive even heard talk that you have to provide notice anywhere upto 1 month before your interview even though many people get 1-2 weeks notice of there interview date so am i now to provide a tardis to be able to give such notice?

then the talk that if your caught recording you will be kicked out? again i wonder where the law sits with this because whilst you do not have the consent there are engaging in work on behalf of the goverment and as civil servants are subject to scrutiny and recording if people who were upto no good could simply say we dont let you record nothing would ever get done in our legal system

so record dont use your phone might make a noise and be obvious but grab yourself a voice recorder or a dictaphone and go for it they wont ever find out and if it goes to court i dont see any judge whos going to throw your case out because your recording of negligent and fraudulant practices was not obtained with the consent of the wrong do'er

src870 · November 2018

I have a PIP assessment on the 3rd Dec and informed them I will be recording the assessment as I have been lied to twice now at previous assessments and what I said was not what was on the form, I also covertly recorded my last assessment which I then won at tribunal. I have been informed that as long as I can produce 2 identical copies on tape then they should be ok. I've spent 15 quid only on 2 dictaphone recorder which I will be using. I will be recording it covertly as well just for piece of mind.

ellea · November 2018

lollaubla said:

farm73 said:

while having my pip accesment my pip accesor lied 3 times on info that i informed her. but what she didn't know that i recorded every thing on my phone. the decision was overturned and i later found out that she was sacked gross misconduct. record every thing on phone

Hi pip lied about me too, I have requested my medical notes and I am going to go to the papers with this to see if they’re interested as I can prove they lied. I suffer from anxiety and depression and fighting pip, filling out forms, going to tribunals isn’t ok for me so they have used my illness to their advantage. How is this ok? people are allowed to work and get pip. I can’t work but can’t get pip because I’m able to use a mobile phone! I self harmed as she was walking up my stairs and when she asked the last time I showed her and said now. No anxiety noted! Who self harms without anxiety??? I dread to leave the house and stay in for weeks at a time without bathing or taking any nutrients. I attack myself and cut my arms, I get angry and sad and so low all the time, daily! I’ve google fast painless ways to kill myself and it’s a constant fight but because I’m aware of what is wrong with me I’m left to my own devices. I’ve been trained, I looked after young people in care, I know I’m not ok but there’s no help to be had I’m on standard universal credit and can’t afford to keep the roof over my head. Everyday I ask myself what is the point of living?! My doctor wasn’t any help either, nor the mental health team who just let me go when I was “next on the list”! There is no help for me from anywhere!

Try not to lose hope! I recorded my recent assessment with my mobile, and either my PIP assessor or the DWP somewhere along the line left things out that showed my health has worsened both physically and mentally. They ignored evidence, I provided then. So I provided more since, on top of info I provided at the assessment I had which was at home because of no being able to travel (yet they have still refused me the mobility. On top of RA and chronic anxiety and depression I've been diagnosed with Fibro and CPTSD after several incidence/ crimes against me in 2016 I had breakdowns and was under the crisis team. And now being treated for PTSD. They will try and make it harder and they want people to give up. They are doing this to too many people. I intend to make a complaint with the help of my support worker and go to tribunal with a script of the recording. Hope you get the support you need!

src870 · November 2018

There is an organisation in London called Advocate (Barprobono) who will provide you with a BARRISTER FREE OF charge if you are on benefits and need to go to tribunal. I urge everyone to look them up. They are helping me with a War pension claim but they will consider PIP. Good luck.

ellea · November 2018

src870 said:

There is an organisation in London called Advocate (Barprobono) who will provide you with a BARRISTER FREE OF charge if you are on benefits and need to go to tribunal. I urge everyone to look them up. They are helping me with a War pension claim but they will consider PIP. Good luck.

Was wondering if they help people outside London? Cheers!

ellea · November 2018

Just checked Barprobono out and people need to be referred to get help.

ellea · November 2018

TheJudge said:

I recorded my PiP assessment on my phone and I'm so glad I did. Numerous errors and blatant lies. I had been waiting 19 months for a hearing and then it got postponed due to the evidence and something that I recently discovered......My pip assessor (paramedic) was under investigation for fraud (38 counts) and professional misconduct. Irony: one of the charges is that he was working for two companies whilst claiming sickness benefit!!! He has now been struck off.
I am shocked that there seems to be no accountability on the part of ATOS but I absolutely intend on going through the court process to see them answer for what they have done.

I recorded my recent one in June/july and he said he was a paramedic. When I got the decision makers report there was lot of info left out or made up. For example, he said I had a firm grip when I dont and I did not grip him I gently held his hand. He also said I looked slightly strained at one point, when actually I was distressed upset and agitated most of the way through. Also ignored evidence of new diagnosis including worsening health and symptoms including PTSD. I don't know where along the line it was left out but as a result I had my payments reduced and denied mobility, which 've been asking for and needed for for a few years now. I will be making a complaint and have the recording written down to use at tribunal. It really is dispicable the way in which they seem to be allowed to keep doing this and are answerable to no one it seems!

lollaubla · November 2018

Thank you ellea. It’s disgusting how they can get away with it! They’re literally doing it to everyone. My illness took over me about a year and a half ago. I’ve always suffered but I’ve been able to manage it to a degree. When it took over I had to leave work and unfortunately I’m still extremely ill with chronic anxiety and depression like yourself, my health has worsened and I’m still getting standard rate UC my debt is mounting and I feel like I’m getting nowhere and the system is making my life worse instead of helping me to get better. I gave up on pip because I couldn’t face a tribunal I feel like everyone thinks I’m lying and that they think I’m ok when I’m not. I don’t want benefits, I want to be able to work, I’d give anything to be that strong again. They make me feel embarrassed and pathetic, like I’m worthless. I don’t understand how it’s allowed, it’s discrimination! I thought that was illegal?! £623 a month I get, my rent is £450 and car insurance £100, gas and electric £54, phone £25, that’s without water, tv, broadband, food, fuel, dog food, clothing etc I can’t manage it if it wasn’t for family and friends I couldn’t eat! All I needed was help to get back to work but they all just kicked me while I was down. Even my doctor took over a month to write the worst supporting letter, after a month my mum called to say we had a cut off date for the letter to be in and if he didn’t think it would be done by then he might as well not do it as it would be a waste of time and he accused her of threatening him. How is that helping??? My supporting letter basically asked pip to look at me with sympathy! Nothing about my medication, self harm, anger issues, anxiety, constant depression, suicidal thoughts, fear of leaving the house, etc. His attitude was why are YOU asking me for this and not THEM? But I will write it as a favour. I can’t believe how bad the system is!

I really hipe they sort this out its so awful they treat people this way.

ellea said:

lollaubla said:

farm73 said:

while having my pip accesment my pip accesor lied 3 times on info that i informed her. but what she didn't know that i recorded every thing on my phone. the decision was overturned and i later found out that she was sacked gross misconduct. record every thing on phone

Hi pip lied about me too, I have requested my medical notes and I am going to go to the papers with this to see if they’re interested as I can prove they lied. I suffer from anxiety and depression and fighting pip, filling out forms, going to tribunals isn’t ok for me so they have used my illness to their advantage. How is this ok? people are allowed to work and get pip. I can’t work but can’t get pip because I’m able to use a mobile phone! I self harmed as she was walking up my stairs and when she asked the last time I showed her and said now. No anxiety noted! Who self harms without anxiety??? I dread to leave the house and stay in for weeks at a time without bathing or taking any nutrients. I attack myself and cut my arms, I get angry and sad and so low all the time, daily! I’ve google fast painless ways to kill myself and it’s a constant fight but because I’m aware of what is wrong with me I’m left to my own devices. I’ve been trained, I looked after young people in care, I know I’m not ok but there’s no help to be had I’m on standard universal credit and can’t afford to keep the roof over my head. Everyday I ask myself what is the point of living?! My doctor wasn’t any help either, nor the mental health team who just let me go when I was “next on the list”! There is no help for me from anywhere!

Try not to lose hope! I recorded my recent assessment with my mobile, and either my PIP assessor or the DWP somewhere along the line left things out that showed my health has worsened both physically and mentally. They ignored evidence, I provided then. So I provided more since, on top of info I provided at the assessment I had which was at home because of no being able to travel (yet they have still refused me the mobility. On top of RA and chronic anxiety and depression I've been diagnosed with Fibro and CPTSD after several incidence/ crimes against me in 2016 I had breakdowns and was under the crisis team. And now being treated for PTSD. They will try and make it harder and they want people to give up. They are doing this to too many people. I intend to make a complaint with the help of my support worker and go to tribunal with a script of the recording. Hope you get the support you need!

lollaubla · November 2018

Thank you ellea. It’s disgusting how they can get away with it! They’re literally doing it to everyone. My illness took over me about a year and a half ago. I’ve always suffered but I’ve been able to manage it to a degree. When it took over I had to leave work and unfortunately I’m still extremely ill with chronic anxiety and depression like yourself, my health has worsened and I’m still getting standard rate UC my debt is mounting and I feel like I’m getting nowhere and the system is making my life worse instead of helping me to get better. I gave up on pip because I couldn’t face a tribunal I feel like everyone thinks I’m lying and that they think I’m ok when I’m not. I don’t want benefits, I want to be able to work, I’d give anything to be that strong again. They make me feel embarrassed and pathetic, like I’m worthless. I don’t understand how it’s allowed, it’s discrimination! I thought that was illegal?! £623 a month I get, my rent is £450 and car insurance £100, gas and electric £54, phone £25, that’s without water, tv, broadband, food, fuel, dog food, clothing etc I can’t manage it if it wasn’t for family and friends I couldn’t eat! All I needed was help to get back to work but they all just kicked me while I was down. Even my doctor took over a month to write the worst supporting letter, after a month my mum called to say we had a cut off date for the letter to be in and if he didn’t think it would be done by then he might as well not do it as it would be a waste of time and he accused her of threatening him. How is that helping??? My supporting letter basically asked pip to look at me with sympathy! Nothing about my medication, self harm, anger issues, anxiety, constant depression, suicidal thoughts, fear of leaving the house, etc. His attitude was why are YOU asking me for this and not THEM? But I will write it as a favour. I can’t believe how bad the system is!

I really hipe they sort this out its so awful they treat people this way.

ellea · November 2018

Waylay said:

I didn't have access to the equipment to officially record my assessment, and I'm well aware that assessors do a poor job a lot of the time.

I don't have it in for the assessors. I just have a lot of unfortunate experience with incompetent/lazy/dishonest assessors. Self protection. Exactly, I only had my mobile and it was last minute thing. It was already started when I tapped my voice recording app into life so don't know the name of the assessor. If the process was fair and people's needs were not being ignored there would be trust there..instead there is none. They make false comparisons..like for example, if you can gently hold the assessors hand/ fingers for 2 seconds it suggests you don't have any problems gripping/holding things..like it equates to holding a heavy pot or using kitchen utensils..Or you go to your local shop two mins away by yourself..means you can plan and make a journey unaided..When in fact you cant use public transport get on a train etc because of mental health. The list goes on. They seem answerable to no one, despite how many people have proved they operate in this way and whistleblowers sharing there inside knowledge of just how deliberately difficult they make it for those who need their help! The DWP do not '' want to make sure you are getting the help you need''!

madquasimodo · April 2019

You should not be forced to covertly record the assessment they should do this as a matter of course for both parties, not every claimant is honest, and I bet many assessors have bad times when dealing with some aggressive claimants, recording should be there.

TheJudge · April 2019

I have now been waiting 2 YEARS (from PiP rejection to tribunal) and my case has once again been "postponed" this time due to the judge being "Removed" This is the fourth time my tribunal has been cancelled and I highly suspect it will happen again.

I secretly recorded my PiP assessment due to a previous bad experience. My assessor (a paramedic) was employed by ATOS even though he was under active investigation for 38 counts of fraud. He has since been struck off from the medical register. The number of lies that were recorded on my PA4 medical form were shocking. The DWP would not accept my video but they did accept my transcript. The tribunal court have said that they will accept both.

Where do I start about getting legal advice/help? I would like to see ATOS in court for not fulfilling their duty of care, falsifying medical records and keeping this dragging on for what seems like an eternity.

madquasimodo · April 2019

Something to start with
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/finding-free-or-affordable-legal-help/

https://www.lawcentres.org.uk/i-am-looking-for-advice

https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you

Think your going to find it hard finding any legal aid, but you never know if someone will pick up your case and help depends on how much of a social justice warrior they feel like.

Sounds like you had a raw deal, something that happens all to frequently, errors on a F2F and then passed as gospel to the DWP. It's a shame that anyone has to fight to correct these errors, recording your assessments should be done for both parties peace of mind, there are some on here who used to do assessments and no doubt will feel everyone is against them even though they may have been truthful and honest, its a shame that both sides always have a bad example which tars everyone. I hope you can get some help it sounds like you will need some, good luck.

I recorded my PIP Assessment and the assessor was sacked for gross misconduct

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