Pip mr. How long are they currently taking?

mick192
mick192 Online Community Member Posts: 12 Connected
edited February 2022 in PIP, DLA, ADP & AA
Hi everyone 
Hope your all well 

I'm doing a Mandatory reconsideration for a family member 
Already done one previously for my partner and she won her Mandatory reconsideration. 

So after going over my family members report I see that for every descriptor the reason for scoring no points is because he doesn't receive mental health support or take medication for mental health 
But this is where I becomes very confusing because he takes amitryptiline for low moods and anxiety and also for pain
He stated this to the assessor it was prescribed this after making the pip claim 
So the assessor is basically saying he can do all the descriptors because he doesn't take anything for mental health or receive any professional help from mental health workers 
He scored 6 for daily living and 4 for mobility leaving him with no award 
He was declined 2 years ago for the same reasons but didn't know he could appeal this decision 
I'm just wondering if a medical professional can basically say that he can meet all his daily needs and mobility needs just because of no mental health support 
He is currently waiting for a diagnosis due to continuous bleeding and pain when going to the loo (sorry too much info) bad kidneys 
A swollen hip and pain what he his basically bedridden because and still awaiting diagnosis on this
But also the medical professional said that because he isn't under a pain clinic he can carry out mobility daily tasks 
But his physio therapist states he cannot be referred to a pain clinic till diagnosis are done 
As they cannot treat pain till they actually find out what is causing it 
He is incontinent due to the pain and kidney issues he isn't making it to the toilet on time 
He has 2 family members who takes care of most of his needs 
But they asked me to fill out his Mandatory reconsideration 
I have done everything needed and even sent information off the nhs site to show the medication he is taking is for mental health 
At this point I can't see which way this Mandatory reconsideration will go 
Also how long are they currently taking it was sent off on Monday 
Thank you 

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,456 Championing
    It's one of those classic "copy and paste" reasons. What you should really do is put the report and decision letter to one side and concentrate on the descriptors and where the points should have been scored and the reasons why.
    If real life examples haven't already been given this would be a good starting point if the MR decision doesn't change.
    Information from the NHS website is not classed as evidence and won't help a PIP claim. It's not awarded based on any medication you take anyway.
    Timescales for MR are between 2-12 weeks.

  • mick192
    mick192 Online Community Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Thank you for replying back to me poppy
    What I've done is bullet point each descriptor and explained why he disagrees with it 
    I've then had the family members who care for him to do a little statement of what care needs they take care of and why and how many days a week 
    The whole purpose of me highlighting the nhs page for amitryptiline 
    Was due to the assessor stating that he doesn't take medication for his mental health 
    That is just to highlight that he does and for each descriptor used that to score him zero points on most of them 
    I haven't over loaded them with statements and evidence as I do know less is more when it comes to the dwp 



  • calcotti
    calcotti Online Community Member Posts: 10,000 Championing
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-the-assessment-process#completing-assessment-reports
    1.6.36 When considering mental health medication HPs should remember that not all claimants with a mental health condition will be on medication or receiving therapy. Severity of a mental health condition does not necessarily correspond with the type or dosage of medication that the claimant is receiving. There are a number of reasons why a claimant may be unable or choose not to take mental health medication, for example, but not limited to:
    - poor compliance due to the nature of mental health condition
    - side effects or difficulty tolerating medication
    - lack of efficacy
    - preference for psychological therapy instead of medication
    - complicating factors, for example excessive alcohol consumption

    Therefore absence of medication does not automatically mean that the health condition is not severe. However, HPs should consider the type and context of certain medications, for example use of depot antipsychotic injections in psychotic disorders.

    HPs should also take into account that some medications are used to treat different conditions, for example some antidepressants are also licenced to treat anxiety. HPs must also consider the use of other treatments such as psychological therapies.


  • mick192
    mick192 Online Community Member Posts: 12 Connected
    calcotti said:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-1-the-assessment-process#completing-assessment-reports
    1.6.36 When considering mental health medication HPs should remember that not all claimants with a mental health condition will be on medication or receiving therapy. Severity of a mental health condition does not necessarily correspond with the type or dosage of medication that the claimant is receiving. There are a number of reasons why a claimant may be unable or choose not to take mental health medication, for example, but not limited to:
    - poor compliance due to the nature of mental health condition
    - side effects or difficulty tolerating medication
    - lack of efficacy
    - preference for psychological therapy instead of medication
    - complicating factors, for example excessive alcohol consumption

    Therefore absence of medication does not automatically mean that the health condition is not severe. However, HPs should consider the type and context of certain medications, for example use of depot antipsychotic injections in psychotic disorders.

    HPs should also take into account that some medications are used to treat different conditions, for example some antidepressants are also licenced to treat anxiety. HPs must also consider the use of other treatments such as psychological therapies.

    Thank you for this

    So realistically if he was to be unsuccessful in his mandatory reconsideration it would be taken to the tribunal

    Could I possible quote this to them before it actually gets to a tribunal 

    I know many people on forums advise against using examples off the government site and states it doesn't help in any shape or form but surely this should actually help him to get a successful claim 

    I'm not sure if a decision maker will contact him in regards to his mandatory reconsideration 

    But if they happen to do so would it be something I could quote to them on his behalf? 

    I want to prevent him the stress of going through a tribunal and he possibly wouldn't agree to taking it further and would just put up and shut up like his last claim 

    but he his entitled to an award and its very obvious 


    The government are wasting so much money preventing people from getting an award surely the dwp could stop these silly medical assessments been done by private company's and allow our own gps to do these assessments but then again I don't think gps could cope with the work load 

    but surely our gps know our medical and care needs more than these who are just paid to tick boxs 




  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,456 Championing
    If the MR decision doesn't change then he would need to request the Tribunal, it's not automatically done.
    I disagree about GP's doing the assessments because a GP doesn't know exactly how your conditions affect you. They don't spend any time with you to know how you dress/undress, wash, prepare a meal, budgeting, toilet needs etc etc. If they know these details it's because you've told them.
    Quoting them the link above in my opinion won't help because PIP isn't awarded based on any diagnosis. There's lots of threads on here with advice about PIP if you can search some threads.
    It's rare for a decision maker to ring with questions before making a decision but it can happen, just don't expect them to ring.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Online Community Member Posts: 10,000 Championing
    mick192 said:
    Could I possible quote this to them before it actually gets to a tribunal 
    Definitely. Just a statement along the lines of  - You appear to have concluded that I do not have xxx difficulties  because I do not receive medication. I understand that your own guidance advises that the absence of medication should not be used to infer the absence of a health condition. See paragraph 1.6.36 of PIP Assessment Guide part 1.

    You'll need to amend that to suit.

    There is a difference between examples of how illnesses affect people (which are not relevant) and guidance on how the benefit is to be assessed (which the link I provided is).

    Remember that PIP is not awarded based on diagnosis etc. It is based solely on the difficulties a claimant has carrying out the activities to the required standard.
    Personal Independence Payment (PIP) points system (benefitsandwork.co.uk)

    The case for an award is made by explaining the difficulties and giving, where possible, examples of what happens when the activities are attempted. It is what happens on the majority of days that matters. 

    A DM may make contact in response to the MR but may not. 
  • ChrisH90
    ChrisH90 Online Community Member Posts: 124 Contributor
    mick192 said:
    Hi everyone 
    Hope your all well 

    I'm doing a Mandatory reconsideration for a family member 
    Already done one previously for my partner and she won her Mandatory reconsideration. 

    So after going over my family members report I see that for every descriptor the reason for scoring no points is because he doesn't receive mental health support or take medication for mental health 
    But this is where I becomes very confusing because he takes amitryptiline for low moods and anxiety and also for pain
    He stated this to the assessor it was prescribed this after making the pip claim 
    So the assessor is basically saying he can do all the descriptors because he doesn't take anything for mental health or receive any professional help from mental health workers 
    He scored 6 for daily living and 4 for mobility leaving him with no award 
    He was declined 2 years ago for the same reasons but didn't know he could appeal this decision 
    I'm just wondering if a medical professional can basically say that he can meet all his daily needs and mobility needs just because of no mental health support 
    He is currently waiting for a diagnosis due to continuous bleeding and pain when going to the loo (sorry too much info) bad kidneys 
    A swollen hip and pain what he his basically bedridden because and still awaiting diagnosis on this
    But also the medical professional said that because he isn't under a pain clinic he can carry out mobility daily tasks 
    But his physio therapist states he cannot be referred to a pain clinic till diagnosis are done 
    As they cannot treat pain till they actually find out what is causing it 
    He is incontinent due to the pain and kidney issues he isn't making it to the toilet on time 
    He has 2 family members who takes care of most of his needs 
    But they asked me to fill out his Mandatory reconsideration 
    I have done everything needed and even sent information off the nhs site to show the medication he is taking is for mental health 
    At this point I can't see which way this Mandatory reconsideration will go 
    Also how long are they currently taking it was sent off on Monday 
    Thank you 

    I'm 2 months and still waiting for a Mandatory Reconsideration, However I did call Pip last week and they advised me I should receive a decision sometime next week.
  • ChrisH90
    ChrisH90 Online Community Member Posts: 124 Contributor
    Teddybear12 said:
    Good luck. Let us know how you get on.
    Thank you, I'm going to need luck, As my original decision came back with 0 points, However I did give real life examples of how daily life affects me on my MR, It's just a waiting game now I guess.

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