My/your ludicrous examples of evidence

SonOfYorick · December 2023

Im writing my 4 ish page ‘reason why I disagree with the decision’ doc, and in having to prove things that I normally wouldn’t have evidence for anyway (ie: sorry I can’t find any of the carefully handwritten notes over already quite simple cooking instructions my mate gave me because my organisation skills are cacked)

So presently, amongst some hard hitting new letters from my psychiatrist, and other actually really good evidence)

I’ve felt like I’ve been pushed into finding really petty examples of new evidence like:

a photo of my breakfast bowl with ‘dose before shower!’ Written in felt on the rim

And a screenshot of the disability settings on my Barclays back app

On a serious note, is this level of nonsense camera-roll digging, pedantic **** actually effective?

and on a less serious note, have you had to provide evidence more silly than a simple photo of a bowl of porridge with a reminder saying ‘dose’ on it in pen?

poppy123456 · December 2023

I'm not convinced that photos or screenshots of something would be evidence that will help a PIP claim because they could be anyone's pictures.

You're much beter off focusing on real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. Adding detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were.

In your previous thread you said when you filled out the form you wrote more than 2,000 words but was the information relevant to the PIP descriptors? It's fine to send that amount of information but if it's not relevant then it's not going to be helpful.

SonOfYorick · December 2023

The original 2k ish essay was given green light by two people , who between them had helped 50 or so people win disability allowances and PIP, and one who knew tribunals and referrals like the back of his hand.

Not that (an entirely different) person had any experience in the field, but a final third mentor also read their response and says they’re detatched from reality.

For what it’s worth , He’s a retired government consultant

poppy123456 · December 2023

SonOfYorick said:

The original 2k ish essay was given green light by two people , who between them had helped 50 or so people win disability allowances and PIP, and one who knew tribunals and referrals like the back of his hand.

Well, clearly something went wrong here then. It seems like they didn't know as much as they claimed they did.

Did those same people advise you to send in the photos and screenshots?

woollywonder · December 2023

woodbine said:

For what its worth I always think that "evidence" should be relevant and as recent as possible, a PIP application does not have to have "evidence".

I disagree based on my own experiences.. on my recent application, all of the descriptors denied points were reasons given as - "there is no formal evidence from specialists; there is no evidence of input for pain management; did not see any evidence to back up claimants declared difficulty....." and the like. The evidence in my form, ie. my own account and examples, were disregarded on the basis that there was no formal evidence from professionals. Even worse was that in fact the evidence WAS there by way of written reports confirming current inputs.... and was not listed in DM's report as evidence considered leading me to think that in fact the whole thing is a bit of a lottery!

poppy123456 · December 2023

woollywonder said:

woodbine said:

For what its worth I always think that "evidence" should be relevant and as recent as possible, a PIP application does not have to have "evidence".

I disagree based on my own experiences.. on my recent application, all of the descriptors denied points were reasons given as - "there is no formal evidence from specialists; there is no evidence of input for pain management; did not see any evidence to back up claimants declared difficulty....." and the like. The evidence in my form, ie. my own account and examples, were disregarded on the basis that there was no formal evidence from professionals. Even worse was that in fact the evidence WAS there by way of written reports confirming current inputs.... and was not listed in DM's report as evidence considered leading me to think that in fact the whole thing is a bit of a lottery!

Were the examples you gave real world incidents? Looking back on your previous thread it seems like you may not have given enough of relevant information in the form. So many people confuse real world incidents with assertions and there's a big difference between the two.

honestjon · December 2023

woollywonder said:

woodbine said:

For what its worth I always think that "evidence" should be relevant and as recent as possible, a PIP application does not have to have "evidence".

I disagree based on my own experiences.. on my recent application, all of the descriptors denied points were reasons given as - "there is no formal evidence from specialists; there is no evidence of input for pain management; did not see any evidence to back up claimants declared difficulty....." and the like. The evidence in my form, ie. my own account and examples, were disregarded on the basis that there was no formal evidence from professionals. Even worse was that in fact the evidence WAS there by way of written reports confirming current inputs.... and was not listed in DM's report as evidence considered leading me to think that in fact the whole thing is a bit of a lottery!

The dwp lie a lot and it's well known.
All the talk seems to be about people exploiting the benefits system but the biggest offenders are the dwp and there friends who do the assessments.
ill people are exploited badly as the users of this forum can see by reading some of the requests for help on this forum after the dwp have tricked someone else day after day

2oldcodgers · December 2023

woollywonder said:

woodbine said:

For what its worth I always think that "evidence" should be relevant and as recent as possible, a PIP application does not have to have "evidence".

I disagree based on my own experiences.. on my recent application, all of the descriptors denied points were reasons given as - "there is no formal evidence from specialists; there is no evidence of input for pain management; did not see any evidence to back up claimants declared difficulty....." and the like. The evidence in my form, ie. my own account and examples, were disregarded on the basis that there was no formal evidence from professionals. Even worse was that in fact the evidence WAS there by way of written reports confirming current inputs.... and was not listed in DM's report as evidence considered leading me to think that in fact the whole thing is a bit of a lottery!

So do I.

To suggest that you don't need any type of evidence for a PIP claim is ludicrous. Without any evidence of condition - no diagnosis, without having treatment etc is plain mad.
As you point out the DWP DO expect there to be evidence.
If I didn't already have a PIP award I would be willing to put in a claim citing some make believe condition, and tell them a story of what happened. To me without any evidence whatsoever is akin to reading a good believable novel just to see what the result would be.

I had to send in my evidence for my PIP award. This in the main consisted of a 3 page report given to me by my GP where he went through my medical history and wrote for each descriptor where he said that it applied to me. The decision of no award at all to Enhanced Care & Mobility was the result.

poppy123456 · December 2023

2oldcodgers said:

woollywonder said:

woodbine said:

For what its worth I always think that "evidence" should be relevant and as recent as possible, a PIP application does not have to have "evidence".

I disagree based on my own experiences.. on my recent application, all of the descriptors denied points were reasons given as - "there is no formal evidence from specialists; there is no evidence of input for pain management; did not see any evidence to back up claimants declared difficulty....." and the like. The evidence in my form, ie. my own account and examples, were disregarded on the basis that there was no formal evidence from professionals. Even worse was that in fact the evidence WAS there by way of written reports confirming current inputs.... and was not listed in DM's report as evidence considered leading me to think that in fact the whole thing is a bit of a lottery!

So do I.

To suggest that you don't need any type of evidence for a PIP claim is ludicrous. Without any evidence of condition - no diagnosis, without having treatment etc is plain mad.
As you point out the DWP DO expect there to be evidence.
If I didn't already have a PIP award I would be willing to put in a claim citing some make believe condition, and tell them a story of what happened. To me without any evidence whatsoever is akin to reading a good believable novel just to see what the result would be.

I had to send in my evidence for my PIP award. This in the main consisted of a 3 page report given to me by my GP where he went through my medical history and wrote for each descriptor where he said that it applied to me. The decision of no award at all to Enhanced Care & Mobility was the result.

Yet in a previous comment very recently you said you did understand the criteria for PIP. This comment suggests you don’t.

PIP is not about a diagnosis, never has been. A diagnosis is very often not in question anyway.

A lot of medical evidence will only tell them the basics, which is often not enough.

For PIP the focus should not be on the problems you have but the consequences of those issues. Detailed real world examples are always preferred as the claimant is the only person that knows exactly how their conditions affect them. A lot of claim packs lack this information.

Last night a member posted a thread with their recent PIP decision and when I read it I thought “absolutely perfect and this is how a PIP form should be filled out” I couldn’t have put the advice in that thread better myself. You can see that thread here https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/112828/a-successful-if-unusual-pip-result-dont-give-up#latest I hope the member doesn’t mind me bringing up their thread here.

My/your ludicrous examples of evidence

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