Are LCWRA claimants being misled?

5imply_Ted
5imply_Ted Online Community Member Posts: 52 Contributor
in Benefits and income
The reason the DWP gives for paying UC by the calendar month rather than 4 weekly like legacy benefits and PIP is that it is preparation for the world of work. Those on LCWRA are not expected to look for work. Has it been explained why this group should be expected to shoulder the extra financial burden?

Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    For those that have difficulty managing monthly payments can have their payment made twice a month, rather than 1 monthly payment. Doing it this way would mean their payment would be split into 2 equal payments.

    Previously it was only possible to do this if you live in Scotland. Now it’s possible nationally. 
  • luvpink
    luvpink Online Community Member Posts: 2,818 Championing
    5imply_Ted said:
    The reason the DWP gives for paying UC by the calendar month rather than 4 weekly like legacy benefits and PIP is that it is preparation for the world of work. Those on LCWRA are not expected to look for work. Has it been explained why this group should be expected to shoulder the extra financial burden?
    Mine has always been paid fortnightly.
    I didn't request it, thats just how they pay it to me.
  • 5imply_Ted
    5imply_Ted Online Community Member Posts: 52 Contributor
    I see. So how does that correlate with the assessment periods being calculated on a calendar month basis unlike legacy, pip etc. I’m confused because there are more days in a month than there are in 4 weeks. How are those extra days accounted for if they indeed are?
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Legacy benefits do not have assessment periods like UC does and neither does PIP. 

    Legacy benefits and PIP are weekly benefits paid fortnightly or 4 weekly.

    For UC an assessment period lasts for 30 days each month and the first day is the date you submit your claim. 

    For example, if someone starts their claim on 18th of the month their APs would be 18th to 17th of every month. Their payment date would be 24th of every month. 

    UC entitlement is based on circumstances on the last day of each assessment period. Your payment date would be 24th of every month, unless that falls on a weekend or bank holiday and then you will receive payment on the Friday before. 

    When you receive payment it will be 1 month arrears so it would be for the AP 18th to 17th which is 1 month. There’s no extra days because it’s 1 month. 

    Those that are claiming legacy benefits such as ESA/JSA and Income Support would receive 2 payments a month but there will be 1 month a year where they receive 3 payments. For PIP there will be 1 month a year where you will receive 2 payments. 
  • 5imply_Ted
    5imply_Ted Online Community Member Posts: 52 Contributor
    poppy123456 said:
    Legacy benefits do not have assessment periods like UC does and neither does PIP. 

    Legacy benefits and PIP are weekly benefits paid fortnightly or 4 weekly.

    For UC an assessment period lasts for 30 days each month and the first day is the date you submit your claim. 

    For example, if someone starts their claim on 18th of the month their APs would be 18th to 17th of every month. Their payment date would be 24th of every month. 

    UC entitlement is based on circumstances on the last day of each assessment period. Your payment date would be 24th of every month, unless that falls on a weekend or bank holiday and then you will receive payment on the Friday before. 

    When you receive payment it will be 1 month arrears so it would be for the AP 18th to 17th which is 1 month. There’s no extra days because it’s 1 month. 

    Those that are claiming legacy benefits such as ESA/JSA and Income Support would receive 2 payments a month but there will be 1 month a year where they receive 3 payments. For PIP there will be 1 month a year where you will receive 2 payments. 
    How unnecessary, complicated and confusing that is for the claimant receiving LCWRA. When years and months have so many timeline variations for their AP’s eg I think this year has an extra week, some months have 31 days, others 30 while pip is paid 4 weekly. 

    All so that DWP can “replicate the world of work” in their’so-called’ simplification of the system. How dispiriting and irrelevant for LCWRA claimants who are not even expected to look for work.

    Or maybe it’s just me thinks so…
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Not sure what the difference is between those that have LCWRA and those that work. Bearing in mind that there are also people that have LCWRA and work. As I advised you can ask for it to be paid twice monthly which is known as an alternative payment arrangement. See link. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-alternative-payment-arrangements/alternative-payment-arrangements

    Yes some months are longer than others but for UC an assessment period lasts for 30 days each period and is not related to how many days there are in a month. 

    I do think however that your understanding of UC is rather limited. For that reason I will just leave this here. https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/how-youre-paid#:~:text=Universal%20Credit%20is%20paid%20once,pay%20this%20to%20your%20landlord.
  • 5imply_Ted
    5imply_Ted Online Community Member Posts: 52 Contributor
    poppy123456 said:
    Not sure what the difference is between those that have LCWRA and those that work. Bearing in mind that there are also people that have LCWRA and work. As I advised you can ask for it to be paid twice monthly which is known as an alternative payment arrangement. See link. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-alternative-payment-arrangements/alternative-payment-arrangements

    Yes some months are longer than others but for UC an assessment period lasts for 30 days each period and is not related to how many days there are in a month. 

    I do think however that your understanding of UC is rather limited. For that reason I will just leave this here. https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/how-youre-paid#:~:text=Universal%20Credit%20is%20paid%20once,pay%20this%20to%20your%20landlord.
    I guess the difference is that if those on LCWRA are not expected to work then why should they have to wait longer than 4 weeks for payment, like those who are having this so-called workplace environment recreated for them do.

    You’re correct  about my lack of understanding of UC though. I can’t work out whether it is designed to pressure the long term sick into inappropriate positions, entitle new claimants to less money to stretch further, notwithstanding temporary transitional arrangements, or both.

    In terms of the links, I appreciate them and I’m sure they’ll improve my understanding. I usually prefer to take a position based on the Work and Pensions Select Committee proceedings. This helps with observing accountability rather than just reading government legislation which tends to be largely set out in a way that can be subject to DWP as opposed to judicial interpretation.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    5imply_Ted said:
    I guess the difference is that if those on LCWRA are not expected to work then why should they have to wait longer than 4 weeks for payment, like those who are having this so-called workplace environment recreated for them do.


    Again you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to advise. UC was designed to be a monthly payment. When they realised that some people could manage on monthly payments they changed the rules to allow them to access their money at least twice a month, so they can manage their finances a little better than having to wait a whole month for the next payment. 

    5imply_Ted said:
    I can’t work out whether it is designed to pressure the long term sick into inappropriate positions, entitle new claimants to less money to stretch further, notwithstanding temporary transitional arrangements, or both.



    Not everyone claiming UC will be worse off. There are people that are much better off. I've advised hundreds, possibly thousands of people that were in fact better off. 

    Take for example those that are claiming Income Related ESA, the Government announced quite sometime ago that those would be excluded from managed migration until at least 2028, unless they are also claiming Tax credits.

    Now those that are in the Support Group that don't have the Severe Disability Premium included with their ESA are actually better off by claiming UC because LCWRA for UC pays more than ESA Support Group. The reason why the Government halted managed migration for those was to save them millions of pounds. I've advised countless people that they would in fact be better off by claiming UC instead. 

    UC also works better for some people because of the access to the journal, which means they don't have to communicate via a phone call. Many people have fear of phones so find it literally impossible to contact DWP. 

    Understanding UC is not easy and it's taken me many years to get where I am today. It works well for many people, in the same way it doesn't work for some. 

    As for managed migration with Transitional protection (TP), the rules here are no different to what they were for TP for other benefits in the past such as Incapacity Benefit to ESA. TP always eroded over time for that too. 

    I've got personal experience with legacy benefits and UC. Being my daughter's appointee for UC I can't see I've ever had any issues with that for her. I found her Work capability assessment very straight forward with a decision in her favour without any need to challenge it. 

  • 5imply_Ted
    5imply_Ted Online Community Member Posts: 52 Contributor
    I’m pleased that your experience has been positive and certainly appreciate your input and advice. Mine has been slightly different and I’ve witnessed a lot of struggles for a fair transition. This includes natural migration where those previously on premiums are still waiting for recompense long since hikes in rent have eroded any TP.

    To my main point, in my experience the monthly AP is unfit for purpose for those on LCWRA who are unable to work for the foreseeable future. Those who were eligible for Enhanced /Severe Premiums now have to make less money go further as well as having to convince DWP they need split payments.

    I should have made the Severe/Enhanced premiums inclusion clear from the beginning when making the point that a lower UC entitlement was granted for a longer period to those unfit for work and I’m glad that you’ve had a different experience.
  • kimkenzie202
    kimkenzie202 Online Community Member Posts: 112 Contributor
    I don't understand the issue, claimants still receive the same amount of money whether weekly or monthly, unless someone has a mental illness or drug addiction which means they cannot manage money I cannot understand why people cannot make their money last, just buy enough food and pay your bills for the month instead of week and even if your money is gone you will have enough food and energy to last the time period till next payday.

    UC pays everyone monthly, they are not gonna change the system for one specific group of people who may in the future be fit for work, not all disabled or LCWRA will be unfit for work and some may be deemed capable of work in the future. UC does pay twice a month for people who have drug addictions and issues with money due to mental health, the issue is it's not fortnightly so not guaranteed to get paid every 14 days which can be confusing.
  • 5imply_Ted
    5imply_Ted Online Community Member Posts: 52 Contributor
    kimkenzie202 said:
    I don't understand the issue, claimants still receive the same amount of money whether weekly or monthly, unless someone has a mental illness or drug addiction which means they cannot manage money I cannot understand why people cannot make their money last, just buy enough food and pay your bills for the month instead of week and even if your money is gone you will have enough food and energy to last the time period till next payday.

    UC pays everyone monthly, they are not gonna change the system for one specific group of people who may in the future be fit for work, not all disabled or LCWRA will be unfit for work and some may be deemed capable of work in the future. UC does pay twice a month for people who have drug addictions and issues with money due to mental health, the issue is it's not fortnightly so not guaranteed to get paid every 14 days which can be confusing.
    Forgive me perhaps I was not clear. The issue is not whether LCWRA group are paid weekly or monthly. It is that receiving payment once per calendar month rather than legacy style 2/4 weekly means less money having to last longer for the most vulnerable ie those previously eligible for disability premiums.

Categories